Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

Ad
Schumann's 4th Finger
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online
106 registered (Beakybird, anamnesis, Bambers, BachToTheFuture, 24 invisible), 2006 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1446759 - 05/30/10 06:00 PM Mephisto Waltz
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2857
After the treacherous leaps, there is the small cadenza, starting on a not so low A, and then rushing up in doubles, well, that's known, having read the (not so good) Lenau poem on whitch Liszt based the piece, I think that the not so low A should reach the bottom of Hell, should one go for the ultimate, right hand crossing over left, hitting the lowest A, or just be a nice guy/girl, and do what he wrote (realising that he himself never did)?
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1446785 - 05/30/10 06:31 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: dolce sfogato]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Not terribly convinced about the idea of crossing over with the right, but I always spread up from the lowest octave there. I play the Horowitz version, but I can't remember whether he added this or if I put it in myself.
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1446794 - 05/30/10 06:41 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2857
probabely everyone is tempted to do it, by the way: I only play the 'Liszt'-version, a very good alternative to Horowitz's, and this is the only place I dare to try to 'improve', that's such a big word, on the original, a single note, but to me quite a substantial one, there are so many who double octaves, or break chords, or play 'rubato' where it's not supposed to be done, just in this instance I wonder whether it would contribute to the musical/litteral content, and with the right hand, that's the one that has the time to do it, not the left!
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Top
#1446806 - 05/30/10 06:52 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: dolce sfogato]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
The right hand has time? Isn't it finishing the preceeding arpeggio? How the hell are you going to get down there without a massive gap? Just spread the left hand. It has much more time available.


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (05/30/10 06:53 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1446885 - 05/30/10 08:12 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2857
the r.h. has time, really, the only thing would be hitting the A an octave lower, increasing the effect of touching inferno's grounds, and go on with daily business, the swandive to that A is very histrionic, I know, but maybe in it's place?
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Top
#1446889 - 05/30/10 08:17 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: dolce sfogato]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
But why leave a gap for that big jump when the left hand is free and has all the time in the world? I don't think it's much of plunge into the pits of hell if you pause mid-flow, while the right hand stretches across. Also, there's no need to be in a hurry after the low note. Is that what you were thinking of when you suggested the left doesn't have time? If you spread too quickly, you can end up removing the point of doing the low note, because it doesn't have a chance to ring out. Nyiregyhazi used these absolutely all over the place, with truly frightening results. The impact is at it's greatest when you linger momentarily on the fifth finger, rather than when you feel there's a hurry to get up the rest of the spread.


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (05/30/10 08:21 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1446897 - 05/30/10 08:25 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2857
wait, the l.h. is playing it's A, the r.h. is adding the octave below with a crossover, I was so involved correcting wrong answers to old threads that I even didn't know existed, pff, just came out of those dark waters, ready to jump in fresh now though, you play this terrific piece?
Floris.
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Top
#1446903 - 05/30/10 08:29 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: dolce sfogato]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Yeah, you can just spread it all in the left. If I did a blocked chord, I'd play the lower octave in the left and do the two upper notes in the right. It's more solid that way. However, I prefer the sound of the low A alone, to start the ball rolling. It's sounds truly terrifying, when you get deep into it. Pletnev does it here (not as demonically as I'd like in that particular extra note, but it's a great performance).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j161fzjOzyg&feature=related



Edited by Nyiregyhazi (05/30/10 08:35 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1446912 - 05/30/10 08:47 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6606
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
Not terribly convinced about the idea of crossing over with the right, but I always spread up from the lowest octave there. I play the Horowitz version, but I can't remember whether he added this or if I put it in myself.


Isn't that Busoni's version? I play the boring not so low A but I don't roll the chord so I can give it a hearty smack.

Top
#1446919 - 05/30/10 08:59 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Damon]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Do you mean the Horowitz one in general or the extra A? Lots of his changes are from Busoni. But I had a check and the low A isn't in either. In addition to the Busoni bits, Horowitz has his own coda and an igengious way of doubling the explosive repeated left hand triplets in both hands, where the right hand has the huge arpeggios (without any particularly noticable break in the arpeggio).
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1446924 - 05/30/10 09:08 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6606
If by ingenious, you mean he stopped playing the arpeggio for the triplets and resumed immediately after adding all kinds of notes that he may not intended, then yes I guess it was. It's coming back to me now. smile And yes he did add a bit here and there, you are correct.

Top
#1446927 - 05/30/10 09:12 PM Re: Mephisto Waltz [Re: Damon]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6606
Oops, sorry, I was speaking in general, not about the low A.

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
What's Hot!!
New Forums Location & New Piano World Site
---------------------
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player!
Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player
(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
(ad)
A. Geyer Pianos
A. Geyer Pianos
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.
Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New here
by DutchTea
04/23/17 03:11 PM
ED Seiler vs Yamaha CX2
by TBTN
04/23/17 11:13 AM
Digital vs Acoustic - will it harm technique?
by cathryn999
04/23/17 07:23 AM
Demo Songs on a Keyboard
by ManishP
04/23/17 12:18 AM
Samick (?) Knabes
by Andy W
04/22/17 09:16 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Stats
87,484 Registered Members
44 Forums
179,161 Topics
2,618,494 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission