Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
152 registered members (Agent88, ahinton, AlphaBravoCharlie, ajames, AssociateX, anotherscott, 33 invisible), 1,857 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff #1440182
05/20/10 08:36 AM
05/20/10 08:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
musdan Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
musdan  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
I'v always had problems reading notes above and below the staff. Especially the ones with a few ledger lines.

It would help if I could find a "road map" - picture of all 88 keys with the notes and letter names - this would make it easier to learn.

Thanks for helping and fo being there. smile

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: musdan] #1440195
05/20/10 08:57 AM
05/20/10 08:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,508
New Jersey
mom3gram Offline
1000 Post Club Member
mom3gram  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,508
New Jersey
You can order a - hmmm.... not sure what they call it - note chart on heavy paper that you can put on your piano above the keys that has all 88 notes on them. I got it when I was trying to play David Nevue's "Solitude" which had a lot of notes above the staff. I got mine from Sheetmusicplus.com



mom3gram

ALFRED'S ADULT BOOK 1 GRADUATE
Faber Adult PA Bk. 1 Graduate
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: musdan] #1440198
05/20/10 09:03 AM
05/20/10 09:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member
DragonPianoPlayer  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
Hows this?

[Linked Image]

From Czerny's The Little Pianist Opus 823. It's not all 88, but it is probably close enough.

Rich


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: mom3gram] #1440205
05/20/10 09:10 AM
05/20/10 09:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
A
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
This might help too:

http://www.piano-lessons-info.com/piano-notes-above-below.html

For notes above or below those I hope the score would use octave markings like 8va, 15ma.



  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Andy Platt] #1440237
05/20/10 10:04 AM
05/20/10 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
The best way to read notes above or below the staff is the same way you should be reading notes on the staff: by intervals. For example, let's say you have a note that is on the line above treble clef. You should know whatever note is on the top line (F), so then it's just a 3rd above that (line to the next line is a 3rd). Or if you have the space note above the first ledger line, then it's a 4th higher than F. If it's 2 ledger lines above, then its a 5th higher than F, and so on. If to read in reference to a note you do know, then it's not so hard.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Morodiene] #1440270
05/20/10 10:45 AM
05/20/10 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,802
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,802
San Jose, CA
Good ol' ledger lines--- we just have to memorize them. Can't be counting lines every time we want to strike a note.
[Linked Image]

The mnemonics can help: every good boy does fine always, face G.

Flash cards can help. You can make your own on 3x5 unlined index cards, or make your own chart on staff paper. It can help the memory to write things out in your own hand.

One should at least know the first two or three without having to count, or spell.


Clef

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Jeff Clef] #1440332
05/20/10 12:45 PM
05/20/10 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
Glen R. Offline
Full Member
Glen R.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
I used to play tuba, and two ledger lines below the bass cleff is C. Turns out that 2 above the treble clef is also C. So now I have a reference point for ledger lines above the treble clef--I can use intervals from that C.
Of course if you weren't a tuba player who had "low C" burned into your visual processing, this won't help much smile


Be the person your dog thinks you are.
1926 Heintzman Upright, Yamaha YDP 140
[Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Glen R.] #1440352
05/20/10 01:26 PM
05/20/10 01:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,038
rocket88 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,038
Originally Posted by Glen R.
I used to play tuba, and two ledger lines below the bass cleff is C. Turns out that 2 above the treble clef is also C. So now I have a reference point for ledger lines above the treble clef--I can use intervals from that C.
Of course if you weren't a tuba player who had "low C" burned into your visual processing, this won't help much smile


Good point. I'd like to add that the 2 ledger lines above the Treble clef is 2 C's above middle C.

And the 2 ledger lines below the bass clef is 2 C's below middle C.


Piano teacher.
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: rocket88] #1440353
05/20/10 01:27 PM
05/20/10 01:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,082
California
N
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Nikalette  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,082
California
It's a horrible process, but you just have to practice.

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Nikalette] #1440359
05/20/10 01:34 PM
05/20/10 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,142
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,142
New York
Originally Posted by Nikalette
It's a horrible process, but you just have to practice.

That's right. It's a pain in the [whatever].

Even though I have about 200 years of experience with it smile I still have to COUNT those stupid lines and spaces if it's anything more than 2.

And I sometimes need to get out a magnifying glass. ha

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: musdan] #1440369
05/20/10 02:01 PM
05/20/10 02:01 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 180
Kansas City
P
photowriters Offline
Full Member
photowriters  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 180
Kansas City
Originally Posted by musdan
I'v always had problems reading notes above and below the staff. Especially the ones with a few ledger lines.

Well, here is an answer that you may hate, but it is based upon personal experience.

Before I took up the pyannie, I piddled with the guitar the result of which was sort of an education by osmosis. I learned which notes make up which chords, i.e., C-E-G = C Major, C-Eb-G = C minor, etc. Combined with a couple years of music theory, I began to see the staff, especially the notes on the ledger lines, as the notes of a chord. Ignoring any key signature or accidentals, A-C-E always makes some sort of A chord. Conveniently, the first three ledger lines above the treble staff and the first three lines below the bass staff are A-C-E.

If you know what makes which chord, it is a simple step from knowing that three ledger lines below the bass clef is an A so two leger lines below that must be a D because any flavor of D chord is D-F-A.

If you don't have a good mastery of which notes make which chords and vice versa, you can make up some 3x5 flash cards that you can carry with you and review when you are sitting waiting for something to happen.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: photowriters] #1440394
05/20/10 02:59 PM
05/20/10 02:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,802
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,802
San Jose, CA
ACEs, high and low--- that's easy to remember.

And the Joker is wild.


Clef

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: photowriters] #1440449
05/20/10 04:55 PM
05/20/10 04:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
Glen R. Offline
Full Member
Glen R.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by photowriters

Conveniently, the first three ledger lines above the treble staff and the first three lines below the bass staff are A-C-E.

Hey, I like that!

Note identification isn't second-nature to me yet, but I have enough landmarks that I can play decently enough by reading intervals. In order to work on making all note recognition second-nature, I'll regularly play a piece slowly enough to name each note out loud. It seems to be working.

My 2 cents.


Be the person your dog thinks you are.
1926 Heintzman Upright, Yamaha YDP 140
[Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Glen R.] #1440700
05/21/10 01:38 AM
05/21/10 01:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
France
L
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
landorrano  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
France
Originally Posted by Glen R.
I'll regularly play a piece slowly enough to name each note out loud.


Good !

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: landorrano] #1440762
05/21/10 05:34 AM
05/21/10 05:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 720
Iowa
J
joangolfing Offline
500 Post Club Member
joangolfing  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 720
Iowa
I have lots of trouble too with reading above and below the staff.

Jeff Clef--Your helpful diagram was the most useful thing I have seen in a long time. Wow! It is the only thing that might help me.
I'm copying it on my printer and will put it in my piano lesson notebook.

Thanks Jeff, keep coming with those creative ideas.

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: joangolfing] #1440871
05/21/10 09:18 AM
05/21/10 09:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 301
Tampa, FL
Music Major Offline
Full Member
Music Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 301
Tampa, FL
Originally Posted by joangolfing

Jeff Clef--Your helpful diagram was the most useful thing I have seen in a long time. Wow!

+1


Kevin

[Linked Image]
Yamaha S90 --------------- SS-69 Grand
The most important thing in music is what is not in the notes.
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Music Major] #1441078
05/21/10 03:34 PM
05/21/10 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
musdan Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
musdan  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
Thanks everyone - I call them the "dancing notes" - lot's of good information and it's back
to working out those pesky notes.

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: landorrano] #1441087
05/21/10 03:53 PM
05/21/10 03:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
Glen R. Offline
Full Member
Glen R.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Glen R.
I'll regularly play a piece slowly enough to name each note out loud.


Good !

smile And it works!


Be the person your dog thinks you are.
1926 Heintzman Upright, Yamaha YDP 140
[Linked Image]
Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Mark_C] #1441330
05/21/10 10:34 PM
05/21/10 10:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 222
Europe
Motorama Offline
Full Member
Motorama  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 222
Europe
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Nikalette
It's a horrible process, but you just have to practice.

That's right. It's a pain in the [whatever].

Even though I have about 200 years of experience with it smile I still have to COUNT those stupid lines and spaces if it's anything more than 2.


My advice is to practice memorizing those notes 5 minutes everyday (yeah, use a timer) for a week. Guaranteed you will know them.

Lately I'm embracing an anti-pracrastination philosophy smile
It all started when I had to admit to a friend that I didn't know the difference between plasma and LCD televisions. And yet I thought many times about the difference between them. So I realized I just had to check wikipedia once. So many times we say "I don't know that" or "I've always wondered that" while we could just learn it and once and for all.


Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: Motorama] #1441645
05/22/10 12:55 PM
05/22/10 12:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 601
USA
dannac Offline
500 Post Club Member
dannac  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 601
USA
These PDF's will print to 11" x 17" and 18" x 24" sheet.

http://www.olpssongs.com/PDF/piano1117.PDF

http://www.olpssongs.com/PDF/piano1824.PDF

Places like Office Depot, etc... can print directly from USB thumbdrive.

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: dannac] #1441801
05/22/10 06:04 PM
05/22/10 06:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
musdan Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
musdan  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
Thanks dannac

Re: Reading Notes Above and Below the Staff [Re: musdan] #1441804
05/22/10 06:11 PM
05/22/10 06:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,325
Canada
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Frozenicicles  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,325
Canada
I have a funny way of reading ledger lines - I've trained my eyes to be able to transpose things up or down an octave. It helps if you write the octave equivalent when going through something with a lot of ledger lines. You can hear it better in your head that way too. I actually prefer ledger lines to 8va signs. The weird jump that 8va signs create in the intervals always throws me off.


Moderated by  BB Player 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New old guy here; just starting piano journey at 58!
by PianoWVBob. 11/15/18 03:38 PM
One vs. Two-Hnaded Sight Reading
by BbAltered. 11/15/18 01:08 PM
Casio PX-160 or Yamaha P-125 for Beginner
by jediknight. 11/15/18 11:42 AM
Late 19th - early 20th century Pleyel pianos.
by Wckoek. 11/15/18 08:36 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,344
Posts2,761,422
Members91,493
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2