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#1440787 - 05/21/10 06:25 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>> play the Hanons at 220bpm ! Do you still sing at this speed ?!
probably more like humming. I stay on one key until I get to 160bpm for almost all exercises. Then I swtich to the next key, until I'm at 160, and so on. Then I play them in a row, and I bump up the speed a little.

I stay on each hanon for 2 weeks, so I have time to do that.

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#1441936 - 05/23/10 12:26 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Ok Knotty, I've made a note in my book to switch my metronome to 2 and 4 when I reach 160 bpm for the Hanons. So are you still accenting the same beats as before (the only difference is that you put the metronome to 80 )?

#1442013 - 05/23/10 06:55 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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yes, but I don't accentuate beats, I just count in 4s.

#1442039 - 05/23/10 08:20 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Thanks for clarifying Knotty. I think I will over-accentuate beats for now, until the counting in 4s gets ingrained into my muscle memory.

#1442071 - 05/23/10 10:22 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>> Thanks for clarifying Knotty. I think I will over-accentuate beats for now, until the counting in 4s gets ingrained into my muscle memory.
I think that's exactly what you don't want to do. You're going to end up putting the accent every other 8th note and that won't sound good.
Keep it simple with the Hanons for now. I think it's ok if you play all straight. When you start improvising is when you'll worry about counting in 4s.

++

#1442341 - 05/23/10 07:14 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Knotty
I want to start thinking the way you do.
How about when I practise my scales I will slow down my metronome to 2 and 4.

#1442356 - 05/23/10 07:35 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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yes, I think that will help you. It's difficult if the metronome is very slow, but I think it's good for you.

Also, note that you're getting second hand advice here. My point is that I've never been told to emphasize this beat or that beat, or play any note on any particular beat either.
Therefore, I think these things just work themselves out by using other rules.

#1442431 - 05/23/10 10:11 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Knotty, I've tended to over-analyse. Thanks.

#1456305 - 06/14/10 08:45 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Apples,

I finally remembered to ask. In 3/4, you counts in blocks of 3s, therefore accenting the 1st beat of every measure.

++

#1456661 - 06/14/10 05:35 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Hi Knotty
Thanks very much for getting back to me. Is it like accenting every six notes when the measure is in eighth notes ?
How is My Favorite Things going for you and is your band Knotty by Nature still meeting up ?
I will post my third composition soon. Every time I look at it I change it, not necessarily for the better....I've gone through three long pencils !

#1456680 - 06/14/10 06:11 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey there,

Yes, blocks of six eight notes.

The band still meets almost every week. Some tunes are really good to blow on, like Solar and There will never be another you. We have enough material to play for almost 2 hours now. That's really cool.

On the compositions, you don't have to go back and erase, you can also write more than one chorus. Obviously, the more you think about it, the more you get out of it. It's like tearing the tune apart. It won't teach you to play fast, but it will teach you to become more melodic, and play longer lines.

I look forward to your 3rd composition.

#1456704 - 06/14/10 06:56 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Hey again Knots

So blocks of six eight notes is like 6/8.

That's excellent that you have so much in your jazz vocab to play for two hours.
I'm singing/ trying to transcribe Armstrong's Right To Sing the Blues and Lester Young's Foolin' Myself. I so love those tunes.

When you say "write more than one chorus", does this mean writing two Theme As ?

#1456722 - 06/14/10 07:46 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>>When you say "write more than one chorus", does this mean writing two Theme As ?
I'm saying if the tune is AABA, then do 2 AABA.

It doesn't really matter that much, if you have problems with the A section, you can certainly practice that more.

I did fooling myself some time ago, with Billie Holiday.
http://jazzitup-knot.blogspot.com/search?q=foolin+myself
great tune.

#1456750 - 06/14/10 08:38 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Wow Knotty, that was a wonderful transcription. How did you get the sax on your recording ?

#1456928 - 06/15/10 06:45 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Thanks, that's just a sound from my keyboard. I did that on a few recordings, now I just stick to the piano smile

#1461393 - 06/23/10 04:38 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Hi
This is the music and the sheet for my third composition. It's hard to hear me singing on my recording but I AM doing it ! As usual I value your comments and criticisms.

http://www.box.net/shared/bs7c2k873v

http://www.box.net/shared/2acid0fyxh

#1461888 - 06/23/10 05:52 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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Hey there,

I bet this one was quite a challenge. You did a nice job. A few things for now.
Try to outline the harmony. That's quite a challenge to outline the harmony of a tune while providing interest, but actually, on a tune with interesting changes like this, sticking to chord tones on downbeats is probably a good idea.

1st bar is good, while the 2nd bar kind of loses me. The 3rd bar is hip, but the 4th outline 5, b3 and b9.

A good exercise to let your ears hear the harmony is to play nothing but arpeggios for 10 minutes or so. 1-3-5-7.

I'll listen a bit more later, maybe I can give a bit more feedback.

Nice job!
++

#1461946 - 06/23/10 07:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Knotty
You're right, I found Themes A and B were hard whilst Theme C came naturally to me.
The reason I took longer than usual was that when I checked back to your composition, some of my notes/scales sounded similar to yours in a few measures, and I didn't want to plagiarise. It's because I listened to your composition several times and some of your nice phrases must have been in my subconscious. Anyway I ended up revising whole phrases.

I also need to work on my swing for 3/4 time. It feels less natural to me than swinging in 4/4 time.

I will try hard in my fourth composition to let the harmony ring through. I know you said before not to worry too much about the rules but I will only stick to chord tones on beats 1 2 3 and 4 in my next exercise.
What about when the chord is altered e.g. G7b9 - this changes the character of the chord completely from happy to spooky - shouldn't the b9 be emphasised in the arpeggio ?

Cheers
cus

#1461992 - 06/23/10 08:19 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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>> I know you said before not to worry too much about the rules but I will only stick to chord tones on beats 1 2 3 and 4 in my next exercise.
It's not a hard rule, but it will help a lot. It's good to realize when you are not doing it. Chromatism are perfectly fine, and that's one way to break the rule.

>> What about when the chord is altered e.g. G7b9 - this changes the character of the chord completely from happy to spooky - shouldn't the b9 be emphasised in the arpeggio ?
You can experiment with 2 arpeggios.
1 3 5 7
and
3 5 7 9
If you are practicing 1 3 5 7, then no, the 9th does not matter.
1 3 5 7 is easy to practice because usually, you will not be wrong which notes it is.
9th are not always as easy. 9th also sometimes don't work great, for example on a Bb7b5.



#1462005 - 06/23/10 08:45 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Ok Knots, I will have fun playing around with the 9 and b9 arpeggios in Here's that Rainy Day/ Precipitation.

#1462083 - 06/23/10 11:04 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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here was my composition on here's that rainy day:
http://jazzitup-knot.blogspot.com/2009/05/keep-your-coat-on.html

How's the rest of the program going? Are you on tune and hanons #4 ?


#1462101 - 06/23/10 11:36 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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hey Knotty, I thought your composition was really kool, I liked everything about it - your melody, the natural swing with which you played it, and also the rhythm section.

I'm up to Lesson 8 for everything - singing, Hanons, chord voicings and tunes. Like you, I'm finding that I'm learning the tunes more quickly the more lessons I do.
I tend to be a few lessons ahead of the changes I'm composing over.

I can't believe that I started JOI at the end of March this year and I'm already composing. Hanging out with you and Dave Frank is good for me !

#1462237 - 06/24/10 07:12 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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that's great. When you feel ready, perhaps around lesson 15 or so, you can start the improv.

#1462544 - 06/24/10 06:32 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Knotty
Do you mean Lesson 15 for playing or composing ?
I’m looking forward to it but also slightly scared, I think it takes courage to improvise! By then my jazz vocab will have increased and I can be more confident.

#1462562 - 06/24/10 07:05 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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I mean playing.
Don't worry, you'll start slowly. You do it a way where you feel in control from the beginning. The compositions and tunes are helping you getting ready for that.


#1462676 - 06/24/10 11:52 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Thanks again Knotty.
What are you working on at the moment ?

#1462744 - 06/25/10 06:09 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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on Hanons and tune, I'm on lesson 52 smile
For composition, I'm doing Days and Wine which is lesson 32.
For improv, I'm doing Summertime this week.
For singing with solos, I just started Clifford Brown on All the things.
I'm still doing a couple of weeks of 2 handed (drop 2) voicings.

#1463037 - 06/25/10 05:40 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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your C section works much better as you said. Throughout, you're getting a good sense about writing long lines, which is good.

Watch out for chord tones on strong beats though. On the 3rd line, F7, landing on Ab didn't work that great for me.

#1463100 - 06/25/10 08:10 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]  
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Congratulations Knotty, I think it’s sooooo awesome you’re on Lesson 52 !!!!
What’s an example of a 2 handed drop 2 voicing ?

Thanks for relistening to my composition. I’m finding that the first thought that comes to my head is often the best one –is that what you find ?

This weekend I will do the chord analysis for Lesson 4 Here’s that Rainy Day/ Precipitation. Would you mind having a quick check of it when I finish ?

#1463118 - 06/25/10 08:46 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]  
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drop 2 are really easy. You play any 4 or 5 note voicing for a chord, and you drop the 2nd from the top an octave lower. That's it.

So for example C-7
Eb G Bb D
becomes
Bb G Bb D

Or
Bb D Eb G
becomes
Eb Bb D G

or
C Eb G Bb
becomes
G C Eb Bb

Sometimes, you can also use drop 3 chords, or just really open chords that function well within the context of a progression, but aren't so clear by themselves.
For example
C# F# B E
works as an Emaj7

If you pick up a book of Bill Evans arrangements, you will notice that, for the most part, it's a lot of drop 2 chords. They are hard to see at first, and then you kind of get it.

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