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HP-307 - huge disappointment #1435933 05/13/10 03:47 PM
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Rus73 Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

I am pianist seeking for the DP as a second piano for the home.
Reading this forum , I was 100% sure that Roland HP-307 is "amazing, beautiful" etc.

Dear members, I've had an excellent opportunity to test this "masterpiece" for more than 3h.

First impression - awful keyboard- hollow, limp, noninformative. I said - stop, it is impossible, this is Roland HP-307!!! After second hour of testing and adjusting almost all parameters, nothing has changed!
If that is "top model" I am afraid asking you - what is the low-end model of Roland?

After all, I totally agree, that all "new technology, Supernatural etc, etc" just the number of "whistles and bells".

As of Kawai (they have CA-18 only), it definetly have much more realistic keyboard, than "supernatural piano".

Dear members, please, could you explain, how is it possible to compare real piano touch with recorded HI-FI stereo in Roland? It is understandable for kids, but not for pianists.

Apart from that, the Roland has the noisiest keyboard among others!

Finally, ordered Kawai СA 63.

Thank you and apologize for bad English.



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Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: Rus73] #1435946 05/13/10 04:01 PM
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ChrisA Offline
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Originally Posted by Rus73

Finally, ordered Kawai СA 63.


For every person who does not like Roland and buys a Kawai there is also one who hates the Kawai and buys a Roland, Or a Yamaha. It's good I guess that there are so many brands

Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: ChrisA] #1435955 05/13/10 04:10 PM
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Rus73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ChrisA
Originally Posted by Rus73

Finally, ordered Kawai СA 63.


For every person who does not like Roland and buys a Kawai there is also one who hates the Kawai and buys a Roland, Or a Yamaha. It's good I guess that there are so many brands


Of course, however I have no special emotion like hating towards Roland or Kawai or Yamaha. I have interested only one point- how is it possible for pianist to ignore the touch and quality of keyboard or put it on the same scale with New technology or good stereo system?
It is a pitty, we are often follow the advertising.

Last edited by Rus73; 05/13/10 04:11 PM.
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: ChrisA] #1435961 05/13/10 04:15 PM
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Chris is right...not everyone finds Roland appealing and there are many who do not like Kawai...then, there are the enthusiastic Yamaha fans.

Personally, having played the HP-307, I was quite impressed with the instrument, especially the action to sound response...the action itself was very pleasant, and considering I have a Steinway B, a very accurate representation of an acoustic piano's action.

I still found the mid-range a teensy bit synthetic, but far better than the V-Piano, and the top and bottom ranges were exceptional.

Certainly it would be a piano I would heartily recommend.

Snazzy



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Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: Rus73] #1435969 05/13/10 04:27 PM
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dewster Offline
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Originally Posted by Rus73
First impression - awful keyboard- hollow, limp, noninformative. I said - stop, it is impossible, this is Roland HP-307!!! After second hour of testing and adjusting almost all parameters, nothing has changed!

Did you listen through good headphones, or through the built-in speakers? Did you try the various piano presets?

You also might want to do a factory reset before testing a DP - you never know what kind of state it's been left in by previous users.

It's likely your expectations were too high, these are DPs after all.

Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: dewster] #1436027 05/13/10 05:52 PM
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mucci Offline
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Rus73, great choice! I have the CA63 now for 4 months, and love it. But as Chris and Snazzy already said, it's great that there are different keyboard actions and sounds in different DPs because we all have individual requirements and preferences.

My theory is that every DP has specific aspects of a grand piano action that it can emulate exceptionally well. Depending of what aspect is important for you, you choose the action that has its strength in this area... Does this make any sense?

Same for sound production...

I hope you've tested the CA63 before you ordered it because the key action is slightly different than CA18 (stronger which is better in my opinion, also the sound is improved). This is an investment that should be taken with care.

Last edited by mucci; 05/13/10 05:54 PM.

<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: Rus73] #1436069 05/13/10 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rus73
As of Kawai (they have CA-18 only), it definetly have much more realistic keyboard, than "supernatural piano".


I'm not sure I understood you correctly. "Supernatural piano" is not a keyboard.
Are you disappointed about keyboard, sound, or both in HP307?

Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: bkmz] #1436103 05/13/10 08:41 PM
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Well everyones ear is different. I bought the 307 because I found it to have the richest sound through its speakers in my price range. I does have a very noisy and cheap sounding key action when you turn the volume down, it sounds like a cheap toy really.

Make no mistake, whether you look at the roland, yamaha or kawai or whatever it is VERY OBVIOUS they are digital and not acoustic, I can hear it instantly. I am keeping my Roland though because its so convenient to turn the volume down at night when practicing and I will definately buy an acoustic because there is no comparison. My teacher has an acoustic and its day and night to an attentive person.

Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: bkmz] #1436296 05/14/10 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bkmz
Originally Posted by Rus73
As of Kawai (they have CA-18 only), it definetly have much more realistic keyboard, than "supernatural piano".



Are you disappointed about keyboard, sound, or both in HP307?


About keyboard of course. I agree that the keyboard is the most important part of any DP - the sound we will be able to improove with Pianoteq or any other software.I have Hi-End stereo system, and I understand that it is brillaint quality of sound, much better than Roland's sound. But, again, who we are? Pianists or listeners of stereo system? I realize, that any DP consists of keyboard plus 2-3-4 microchips. Thats all. So, when we are very impressed with sound it means that we impressed with microchips. Finally, I agree that keyboard actions is not 50% of quality of DP, it is 90-95% and the only valuable part of the piano.
Thank you.

Last edited by Rus73; 05/14/10 06:41 AM.
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: Rus73] #1436297 05/14/10 06:47 AM
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Now it is more whats inside of the chips, what counts: Samples,Algorithms and software.
You also wouldnt judge about the value of a book by examining the quality or value of the paper? ;-)


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Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: hpeterh] #1436308 05/14/10 07:13 AM
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I have now played the PHA-III keyboard from Roland next to the RM3 keyboard from Kawai (which Rus73 has apparently purchased without even having auditioned once eek) and I can say that both are excellent digital piano keyboards.

The PHA-III from Roland is in my view superior due to more dense sensor coverage, the ability to perform faster repetition, the fact that it more accurately represents a grand piano keyboard with escapement rather than an upright as the Kawai and due to its subjective feel which is like slicing a knife through soft butter. The PHA-II keyboard really invites you to want to play.

Add to that the improved controllability of the Roland (the Kawai is sometimes like playing at knifes edge with irregular and unrealistic step jumps in dynamics), the much better ability to articulate and the more natural and pleasing to the ears Supernatural piano piano sound with nice, long, organic sounding sustain and sympathetic resonance, and there is not really a fair competition between Roland and Kawai.

Where the Roland really shines is when being played side by side next to the Kawai CA63.

Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: theJourney] #1436330 05/14/10 07:59 AM
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One hour ago I made the same decision of ordering Kawai CA63 without ever trying it. Yes, it's scary and could turn out as a big mistake but I have taken the risk anyway. I have tested HP-305 (unfortunately not HP-307 which has better keyboard) and was utterly disappointed with it. Keyboard felt to me the same as my ex-RD-700SX or maybe very slightly firmer and probably better but still nothing too close to real piano. And the sound is the same thin, metallic and over-processed sound as in RD-700SX. To be honest I don't think the cheap trick with the random filtering which causes it to sound non-looped and non-layered is anything more than geeky stuff to pass the dewster test. I even liked the CLP-340 better - both for sound and keyboard! Finally, I tried Kawai MP5 and CL35 and think these were even better! This makes me feel CA63 shouldn't be worse. And yes, again, to go on-topic - I am also very disappointed in the new Roland digital pianos and those cheap marketing tricks.


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Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: hpeterh] #1436341 05/14/10 08:28 AM
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Rus73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by hpeterh
Now it is more whats inside of the chips, what counts: Samples,Algorithms and software.
You also wouldnt judge about the value of a book by examining the quality or value of the paper? ;-)


I disagree. When you read the book -you are reader, the most valuable for you is information, but for pianist the real touch and quality of keyboard is more important, meaning that you can do everything you want with the sound having small laptop only.

Last edited by Rus73; 05/14/10 08:28 AM.
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: theJourney] #1436352 05/14/10 08:48 AM
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mucci Offline
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Originally Posted by theJourney
and there is not really a fair competition between Roland and Kawai.


Haha. Looks like your already biased view of the KAWAI now really becomes reality for you...

But you're right, this is not really a fair competition... wink
Not one word about any aspect the KAWAI might have its strenghts, in every little aspect Roland is better according to you. That's what I call a real objective review. wink

Anyway, it shows that our key and sound tastes vary significantly. And, although not that extreme as you prefer the Roland, I prefer the CA63, especially for the keyboard action.

Last edited by mucci; 05/14/10 08:49 AM.

<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: Rus73] #1436354 05/14/10 08:49 AM
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.... is that the reason you joined the forum ?

.... to bad-mouth Roland products !




Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: CyberGene] #1436356 05/14/10 08:51 AM
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mucci Offline
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@Cybergene, when is the CA63 expected to be delivered? I am eagerly waiting for your review and first experiences!


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: mucci] #1436371 05/14/10 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
Originally Posted by theJourney
and there is not really a fair competition between Roland and Kawai.


Haha. Looks like your already biased view of the KAWAI now really becomes reality for you...

But you're right, this is not really a fair competition... wink
Not one word about any aspect the KAWAI might have its strenghts, in every little aspect Roland is better according to you. That's what I call a real objective review. wink

Anyway, it shows that our key and sound tastes vary significantly. And, although not that extreme as you prefer the Roland, I prefer the CA63, especially for the keyboard action.


Unlike you, Kawaian, prior to making up my mind and committing to any brand I have spent countless hours researching and auditioning the pianos side by side.

Because I didn't come to the same judgement that you did (without having done a similarly careful and complete side-by-side shopping process) then your conclusion is that my evaluation is not objective. Charming. frown

I find it fascinating that almost all of the Kawai purchasers here either purchased their piano without having even tried the specific model they ordered or having tried the RM3 keyboard, let alone audition it carefully side-by-side against other brands with the same headphones in the same session in comparison to the Roland, Yamaha and/or Casio or other offerings.

Interestingly enough, many of the Roland purchasers have been those that have been rather obsessive compulsive about doing a more than thorough job of comparison shopping and auditioning.

I own a Kawai acoustic grand piano and have been quite up front about the fact that I too am biased towards Kawai products. However, to date, when I play them all side by side (although admittedly I have not been able to convince a dealer to take a risk buying a CA93 to try which they seem to believe is an unsellable model) Kawai does not come out on top.


Last edited by theJourney; 05/14/10 09:20 AM.
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: theJourney] #1436400 05/14/10 09:41 AM
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mucci Offline
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Originally Posted by theJourney

Unlike you, Kawaian, prior to making up my mind and committing to any brand I have spent countless hours researching and auditioning the pianos side by side.


How do you know? I have a store here in Munich where I can test drive all major brands and their models in my price range (~2.000 Euro). I have tested them all several times, I would say that's sufficient to make a well thought decision. Although I have to admit that I was a rookie regarding DPs when I started my research back in November 2009. Anyway, I don't have time to compare "countless" hours prior to a purchase decision. I would rather like to play at home with my preferred DP (or even better: acoustic).

Originally Posted by theJourney

Because I didn't come to the same judgement that you did (without having done a similarly careful and complete side-by-side shopping process) then your conclusion is that my evaluation is not objective. Charming. frown


That's not what I said. It's just, well, astonishing, that there are only positive aspects of the Roland versus absolutely no positive aspects of the Kawai. From my posts you should know that there are several aspects of the CA63 that I don't like, and I am very open about that. I expect this more differentiated review from others too, especially from someone who has tested countless hours.

Originally Posted by theJourney

I find it fascinating that almost all of the Kawai purchasers here either purchased their piano without having even tried the specific model they ordered or having tried the RM3 keyboard, let alone audition it carefully side-by-side against other brands with the same headphones in the same session in comparison to the Roland, Yamaha and/or Casio or other offerings.

Interestingly enough, many of the Roland purchasers have been those that have been rather obsessive compulsive about doing a more than thorough job of comparison shopping and auditioning.


Thanks. That's also a very charming way to disqualify the majority of Kawai owners as idiots who buy without any reasonable comparison (your assumption might be: otherwise they wouldn't have bought a Kawai) in contrary to the wise Roland owners who were very careful in their purchase decision. Thanks again!

This reminds me of an Atari vs. Amiga war in the 80s, and the Windows vs. MAC or vs Linux war in several forums (in ancient times...). We should all avoid this in this forum under all circumstances, it does not help anyone who is in need of a purchase recommendation.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: mucci] #1436424 05/14/10 10:39 AM
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Rus73, you are wrong.
If you have big practices, you must understand differences between DP keyboard not such various as between acoustic piano keyboard. And feeling of acoustic keyboard will different from DP in any cases.
[Я тоже никогда не встречал адекватной клавиатуры - ни от каваи, ни от роланда, хотя играл на самых разных роялях/пианино]


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Re: HP-307 - huge disappointment [Re: mucci] #1436441 05/14/10 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
@Cybergene, when is the CA63 expected to be delivered? I am eagerly waiting for your review and first experiences!

I wanted a black satin version but they told me I should wait about a month for it that's why I decided on the dark rosewood which should be here in a week or two. Both are looking great on web.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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