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Pictures of your score(s) collection? #1428164
05/02/10 04:59 AM
05/02/10 04:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,526
UK
Nikolas Offline OP
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Hey.

I know that there are photos of the practice space, but being a composer I have an almost unhealthy relationship with notation! laugh And as such I have been collecting scores for a rather long time. Not tons of stuff, I have to admit, but certainly a lot in greek terms! I would also cover them with plastic cover to protect them as best as possible. laugh

I think I have more than 200 books in piano music and another 100+ orchestral scores. I also don't have a pic, right now, but promise to offer one, when I get into my studio today afternoon, or tomorrow.

In the meantime, how's your collection of scores? Big, small? Untidy perhaps... Books are torn, etc?

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Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Nikolas] #1428365
05/02/10 02:06 PM
05/02/10 02:06 PM
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Mattardo Offline
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Mine runs the gamut - new editions, used editions, well-preserved editions, crumbling editions.
The worst part is when I have an old score (near 100 years old) and I like to play from it. I have a Beethoven Violin Sonatas edition that I've been using, very old, it's finally separated from the binding. NOOOOOOOOO

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Mattardo] #1428373
05/02/10 02:21 PM
05/02/10 02:21 PM
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Pianosaurus Rex Offline
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My collection is still really small, since I haven't been playing for that long yet. But boy, what a mess it is already! I'm just not a very tidy person, I guess!


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Student/apprentice technician
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Pianosaurus Rex] #1428394
05/02/10 02:51 PM
05/02/10 02:51 PM
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Dallas, TX
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ChrisKeys Offline
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I have enough scores to fill 2 music cabinets of moderate height (about 3 ft high). A lot of my "core" scores are at least 40 years old, and they were new when I bought them. (Man, I am getting OLD.) I'm kinda sloppy about storing my music, though. I pull things out to play, and then I leave them stacked on the floor so I can get at them easily. But then I add more things to the pile until eventually I have to re-file. My wife would be happy if I'd put them back in the cabinets more frequently. smile

But I NEVER leave music on the piano, 'cause I close it up each time after I play.

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Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: ChrisKeys] #1428407
05/02/10 03:14 PM
05/02/10 03:14 PM
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UK
Nikolas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ChrisKeys
But I NEVER leave music on the piano, 'cause I close it up each time after I play.
I'm the exact opposite! laugh

But now my scores are in my studio (recording studio) and my piano is in my home, so most of my scores are just sitting there! frown

Just need to note that I have plenty of theoritical books as well, on composition, orchestration, as well...

(and, hope to get some pics up tomorrow. Could get there today).

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Nikolas] #1428490
05/02/10 06:34 PM
05/02/10 06:34 PM
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Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
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Land of the never-ending music
My collection is HUGE for the short time I have been playing the piano. If it keeps growing at this pace, there will be no room left for me in this apartment... ha

I agree with Mattardo about the old scores... Even rearranging the scores on the shelves causes problems and scatters "paper crumbs" on the floor everywhere... How can you turn the page of an old score quickly? whome



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: ChopinAddict] #1428496
05/02/10 06:50 PM
05/02/10 06:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
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UK
Nikolas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
How can you turn the page of an old score quickly? whome
I might get flamed for this but: Photocopy it? I'm not even sure if it's on the edge of legality or illegality if it's for studying purposes and for personal use only... (???)

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Nikolas] #1428505
05/02/10 07:09 PM
05/02/10 07:09 PM
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Seattle area, WA
gooddog Offline
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Originally Posted by Nikolas
I might get flamed for this but: Photocopy it? I'm not even sure if it's on the edge of legality or illegality if it's for studying purposes and for personal use only... (???)
I purchase all my scores but I will occasionally photocopy portions of them so I can practice without turning pages. It's solely for my own use so I don't think it breaks any copywrite laws. I don't see a problem with doing the same thing with aging scores if you own them.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Nikolas] #1428506
05/02/10 07:10 PM
05/02/10 07:10 PM
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Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
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I think if it is for personal use only it can be done... Even at the Con, I have noticed that most students use photocopies....
But, you know, these old scores have a sort of charm that a photocopy doesn't have...



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: ChopinAddict] #1428537
05/02/10 08:09 PM
05/02/10 08:09 PM
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Omaha, Nebraska
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I need to go down to the cathedral and go into the organs blower room. Its a stone room, with beautiful stained glass book cases filled with hundreds and hundreds of organ and chorale books. Some of them are original manuscripts too.


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: ChopinAddict] #1428651
05/02/10 11:30 PM
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Mattardo Offline
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Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
My collection is HUGE for the short time I have been playing the piano. If it keeps growing at this pace, there will be no room left for me in this apartment... ha

I agree with Mattardo about the old scores... Even rearranging the scores on the shelves causes problems and scatters "paper crumbs" on the floor everywhere... How can you turn the page of an old score quickly? whome


I have to apologize to my violinist whenever my Beethoven book leaves crumbs on her music rack...
The binding is gone now, and the pages are starting to break when I turn them sometimes.

I'm not sure if I'm going to have it rebound and restored yet..
The Henle edition does NOT stay open, even if I kick it, bend it, etc - which is why I like my older edition - it's hardcover, and stays flat, the pages are heavier... and not many differences in the two scores.

Has anyone ever taken a stubborn book and had it totally redone by a bookbinder?

I have a special section to lay flat my older scores - it helps a lot!

Last edited by Mattardo; 05/02/10 11:30 PM.
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Mattardo] #1428685
05/03/10 12:10 AM
05/03/10 12:10 AM
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San Jose, CA
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Two bookcases:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Includes every book in the Jan Ekier National Edition of Chopin, an old cloth-bound Henle Beethoven Sonatas in two volumes (one is in my bag), the complete works of Brahms and Schumann, and a huge variety of concerti besides much else.

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Mattardo] #1428775
05/03/10 04:16 AM
05/03/10 04:16 AM
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Rockford, IL
Cinnamonbear Offline
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M,
(Speaking now as a former librarian)--The problem with re-binding is that the book binder has to shave off some of the old spine/gutter to get a clean edge to sew or glue. So, you lose some margin, plus you end up with a tighter book that won't stay open. eek Also, if the pages are truly crumbling, the book binder should say, "This book can't be bound. Use an acid-free envelope or an acid-free box to store it in."

Nikolas, ChopinAddict--photocopying from a score that you own for your own personal use is completely legal.

My copy of WTC Bk.1 is ancient and crumbling. I took it to a local copy shop, where a kind and sensitive clerk was working, to get two of the preludes and one of the fugues copied. She took it in hand gingerly, laid it on the copy glass, and gave me an excellent copy of each on oversized card stock, which I then trimmed to size. It stands up very nicely on its own on the piano's music rack. grin In the meantime, I store the original in an acid-free file folder.

--Andy


Last edited by Cinnamonbear; 05/03/10 04:23 AM.

I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Cinnamonbear] #1428786
05/03/10 06:26 AM
05/03/10 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
M,
Nikolas, ChopinAddict--photocopying from a score that you own for your own personal use is completely legal.

My copy of WTC Bk.1 is ancient and crumbling. I took it to a local copy shop, where a kind and sensitive clerk was working, to get two of the preludes and one of the fugues copied. She took it in hand gingerly, laid it on the copy glass, and gave me an excellent copy of each on oversized card stock, which I then trimmed to size. It stands up very nicely on its own on the piano's music rack. grin In the meantime, I store the original in an acid-free file folder.

--Andy



Copyright is actually much more strict than this and your statement is incorrect. I used to work for a major copy shop and it was my job to teach the rest of the store about it.

Unless the score (and particular publication of that score) was clearly in the public domain, it was illegal to copy it without permission. Some copyrighted works like software and many CDs are allowed to be copied once or twice so that you can back up your data/files however this is generally not the case with paper products.

If that book you were copying is really 100 or so years old than it was probably in the public domain and is fine to copy.

The problem is that usually people think it's fine for personal use because you are not trying to sell it or whatever. And it's true, companies don't typically try to sue unless there is money involved. But people forget that the copy shop makes money off of making the copies and can get sued for a ton of money for allowing copying of sheet music.

I know that where I worked we were very careful and forced every customer to get actual written permission for anything that looked remotely professional. If it was really old, it had to be proven somehow with a date or something that it was in the public domain. (made A LOT of customers really angry, which is why most copy shop clerks will just copy things anyways; it makes their lives MUCH easier assuming they never get caught up in a copyright sting (yes copyright stings actually happen))

I had a few customers that actually paid the sheet music companies for the rights. What typically happens is you buy stickers from the publishers that you attach to the back of the copies. That makes the copies of the music legal.

Although, the only people who did this were people reproducing music for symphonies and public performances, probably because they are the only ones at a real risk for getting sued (other than the copy shop).

Finally, at fear of this becoming too long winded I will mention because a lot of people don't realize that pretty much everything is copyrighted whether it says copyright on it or not.

Even every picture you have ever taken in your life is automatically copyrighted by you and you own the copyright. Theoretically, you could sue someone for illegally copying your photos of your sister's birthday party (you might actually get some money if they used it in an advertisement). And it will be copyrighted by you for around 75 years after you die. (The actual time limits are kind of complicated because the law has changed so much over the years thanks to the mouse with big black ears)

Don't want to completely derail the thread so,

My sheet music collection is pretty big for an early player. I mostly sight read so I go through it like candy. I have some really old stuff that my father and mother have collected over their lifetimes as hand-me-downs and from similar situations. I have a bunch of really old regular sheets of a bunch of really terrible music that my dad picked up the farmer's market. Not only is it bad and crumbling to pieces, but it's also mostly too hard for me to play!

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: SpencerF] #1428801
05/03/10 07:20 AM
05/03/10 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SpencerF


Unless the score (and particular publication of that score) was clearly in the public domain, it was illegal to copy it without permission.


It must be added that the laws vary by country.

And then there is the whole issue of editions where the copyright was held by the former communist countries and not by any individual. That gets very complicated. For example, most of the Dover reprints of Medtner's music came from a Soviet edition of the complete works. I think that at the time they came out, they were probably legal. However, I think that doing those reprints today might not be legal (I am not sure of this, so don't quote me). Given all that, if I want to make a copy of something from those Dover editions, is it legal or not?



Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: wr] #1428803
05/03/10 07:27 AM
05/03/10 07:27 AM
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I wish I had a picture of Cyprien Katsaris's score collection--it's literally an entire room in his apartment, crammed floor to ceiling with music! Marc-andre also has an enormous collection, but his is portable (apparently all the pdf's fit on one flash drive).


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

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Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1428819
05/03/10 08:08 AM
05/03/10 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
I need to go down to the cathedral and go into the organs blower room. Its a stone room, with beautiful stained glass book cases filled with hundreds and hundreds of organ and chorale books. Some of them are original manuscripts too.


I would enjoy seeing those cases and some of the original manuscripts. Do you have access freely?

LL


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: lilylady] #1428829
05/03/10 08:34 AM
05/03/10 08:34 AM
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Nikolas Offline OP
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At last, I managed to grab a pic of my bookshelves...

[Linked Image]

About copyrights: The usual 'window' is the fair use policy. If you have a crumbling book, I'm guessing that you can actually photocopy it for studying purposes, especially if you do own the original copy (edition). I have photocopied a few pages (not the whole score though) of a Messiaens work for teaching purposes, from the University of London library and I had no problem doing so, after checking with multiple clerks, the uk law, etc...


Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: lilylady] #1428897
05/03/10 10:22 AM
05/03/10 10:22 AM
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Omaha, Nebraska
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Originally Posted by lilylady
Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
I need to go down to the cathedral and go into the organs blower room. Its a stone room, with beautiful stained glass book cases filled with hundreds and hundreds of organ and chorale books. Some of them are original manuscripts too.


I would enjoy seeing those cases and some of the original manuscripts. Do you have access freely?

LL


If I need to get some sheet music I can borrow it if I ask. I can arrange to go up to the organ blower room. I'm well aquatinted with the organists of the cathedral. smile


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: lilylady] #1428899
05/03/10 10:24 AM
05/03/10 10:24 AM
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UK
Nikolas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lilylady
Originally Posted by Brandon_W_T
I need to go down to the cathedral and go into the organs blower room. Its a stone room, with beautiful stained glass book cases filled with hundreds and hundreds of organ and chorale books. Some of them are original manuscripts too.


I would enjoy seeing those cases and some of the original manuscripts. Do you have access freely?

LL
I know that this is obviously not what you meant, but would you (or anyone) be interested in scanned (or photoed) pages of my own manuscripts? just for the kicks I guess...? (without me claiming that my works are important or anything like that, but they do remain 'manuscripts' with the default sense, albeit not really old! :D)

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: SpencerF] #1428925
05/03/10 11:05 AM
05/03/10 11:05 AM
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Rockford, IL
Cinnamonbear Offline
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Originally Posted by SpencerF

Copyright is actually much more strict than this and your statement is incorrect. I used to work for a major copy shop and it was my job to teach the rest of the store about it.



Wow, Spencer, you sound so certain! I am not a lawyer, but I studied this issue pretty hard when I worked as a professional librarian. And, yes, it is fair to say the laws vary by country, so, I'm sorry Nikolas and ChopinAddict for being provincial. smile Someone else might know how the "Common Law" answer applies elsewhere. In the U.S. Code, there is a clause called "fair use." It allows for this kind of personal photocopying.

wr should be fine copying the Dover for himself, but not the mass production of scores from communist countries. grin

I remember the days when the copy shops went overboard with their policies because they were getting hammered in court as the intellectual property issue started to heat up. I'm currently waiting to see what will happen with GoogleBooks, which has pretty much scanned every doo-dah book in creation and made it available for free on the Internet. That, to me, does not seem like fair use. But since Google is part owner of the universe, now, I doubt anything will happen to them. smirk

Photocopying bunches of scores from one original so that everyone in the choir (or ensemble) can have one is not fair use--hence the stickers.

Normally, a "cease and desist" letter precedes court action. So, do not live in fear about making photocopies for personal use, for crineoutloud...

Nikolas, it would be totally cool to see some of your work! What a nice offer! Are you sure you want to put it out here, though, after all this talk about intellectual property?

--Andy


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Cinnamonbear] #1429052
05/03/10 03:17 PM
05/03/10 03:17 PM
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Mattardo Offline
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Whether it's illegal or not - I make photocopies, scans of my scores all the time for my own use.
If the music publishers are upset about it - too bad for them: printed music isn't exactly cheap! They should be happy I chose to buy their particular edition, rather than someone else's. Too many companies are so rabid about their scores, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, especially with music that's hundreds of years old, usually, and is easily available online.

Of course, I won't even start ranting about the current state of movies, games, books and music, with the trend pushing towards digital distribution only. Greedy companies, trying to make even more money off of their merchandise and killing the used, rental, library market at the same time. I read the other day that some magazine subscriptions actually cost MORE for a digital copy!!!! How does that even start to make sense? The company's CEO summed it up best when he said "If people will keep paying that price, why not? It's a no-brainer."


Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Mattardo] #1429062
05/03/10 03:35 PM
05/03/10 03:35 PM
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Piano scores :

[Linked Image]

Opera and Lieder scores :

[Linked Image]

Opera, Lieder, Broadway, etc.
[Linked Image]

CDs, French books, Music history, criticism, etc.
[Linked Image]


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: BruceD] #1429075
05/03/10 04:08 PM
05/03/10 04:08 PM
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UK
Nikolas Offline OP
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Mattardo: PLEASE no talk about piracy... I think this is becoming a habbit of mine: I make a thread and eventually it falls down to piracy! laugh

But really, I do think it falls right in the pool of 'reasonable fair use' or something. And, btw, something else which incidently is connected:

I was having an online argument (YAY me) about DRM free music. And the conclusion was that if you buy the CD it's NOT legal to make an mp3 for personal use! Copyrights are copyrights. So, me, being a nerdy Greek, I went ahead and asked a few companies about this very issue. All of them told me the same thing: "Do it. It's not legal, but the uk law office is searching ways to allow this, plus we are not in the job hunting for individuals who make fair use of our music and buy our CDs".

Bruce: Adopt me? laugh laugh Beautiful collection

Andy: A lot of my music (recordings) can be found in my website. Whatever at least is not hidden by NDA or buyouts. I used to offer a few of my scores as well, and through IMSLP (which has an entry on me), but I found out two things:
a. That another well known sheet music website had taken my FREE scores and wanted a monthly subscription in order to download (the whole collection, with my scores included).
b. That Creative Commons license is non revocable. So, in other words, if you add a CC license (all of which have redistribution allowed) you can't take it back.

I do hope to get some high quality pics, or scan a few pages then... smile (so not the whole piece, or anything substantial. The value of the manuscript lies in the actual item).

Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Nikolas] #1429150
05/03/10 06:13 PM
05/03/10 06:13 PM
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Omaha, Nebraska
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BruceD that is a very very impressive collection!!!!!!!!

My collection is scattered around the house at various instrument "stations"

I have my lesser played, or modern pieces at my Story and Clark, as is my organ stuff, as thats where my old organ sat, and it hasn't moved much. smile

The most played, an class work/compositions are at the baldwin literally spewn about the lid. (I Have stacks of books on top of it! Cant even open the lid unless I clear off the piles of books.
My sheets reside in either 3 ring binders or in the bench.

My electric bass music is near my bases stand and case. Its small in numbers.

My orchestral double bass pieces/solo bass music resides on my dresser, as I always loose it if it isn't there.

Saxophone and trumpet music are both on my record player stand. My CD/record collection resides on the floor in front of my bed. I have about 400 records of 1970s and 1980s hits. No classical. Lots of Stray Cats and U2 if you know what I mean. smile

I may take a pic of the S&C and Baldwin in there "NON photo shoot states" Aka what they look like before I must clean them up.


______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: BruceD] #1429153
05/03/10 06:18 PM
05/03/10 06:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
boston north
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member
lilylady  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
boston north
Originally Posted by BruceD
Piano scores :


Bruce, you must have a large budget for music! I cannot fathom how much your collection must be worth.

I am wondering...

Do you have several scores of the same pieces?

If so, do you have recommendations for a certain publisher or composers that you can share?

LL


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: BruceD] #1429155
05/03/10 06:24 PM
05/03/10 06:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
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Looks very nice, Bruce! I wish I could say my collection was half as large, and half as well organized. laugh


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: lilylady] #1429193
05/03/10 07:38 PM
05/03/10 07:38 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,311
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,311
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by lilylady
Originally Posted by BruceD
Piano scores :


Bruce, you must have a large budget for music! I cannot fathom how much your collection must be worth.
Keep in mind that these scores have been collected over years, ahem ... well, yes, over decades which means that the immediate music budget is not necessarily very large.
Originally Posted by lilylady


I am wondering...

Do you have several scores of the same pieces?
I have some duplication of scores, but not much. Duplication usually occurred when I was living in one part of the world and my music remained in another.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Horowitzian] #1429194
05/03/10 07:39 PM
05/03/10 07:39 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,207
Down Under
currawong Offline
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currawong  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,207
Down Under
I agree, Bruce's collection is droolworthy. Although Bruce, some scores on one of your top shelves are leaning over a little. Straighten them up and support them, please! grin

This is part of mine (same pic as the practice space thread). Imagine another bookshelf the same size next to the one in the photo (and similarly full), as well as a large number of stackable plastic crates just out of the photo - I haven't counted, but it could be more than 20 - holding various things such as ancient parlour pieces, remains of far too long teaching school music, scores like musicals which I don't use much, etc ...

[Linked Image]


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Pictures of your score(s) collection? [Re: Horowitzian] #1429195
05/03/10 07:39 PM
05/03/10 07:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 328
Austin TX
J
jtattoo Offline
Full Member
jtattoo  Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 328
Austin TX
Bruce VERY IMPRESSIVE!! My piano collection is small, so I won't put up a pic, but somewhat organized in magazine boxes on a shelf next to the piano. My harp collection was enormous and cataloged. It went to a dear friend and harpist to be used rather than just sit here. (Also, harp music requires a great deal of "markings", which take hours to perfect, so he got quite a gift.) As for the copy business. I know that if I use the original editions, they will pay a price in wear. So I copy everything I am working on and practice from those copies. However, I make sure I either own the edition or it is public domain. I hope and pray the copyright police are spending most of their time after the movie pirates...........

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