Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
118 registered members (AndrewJCW, AcousticAndre, amyram, anamnesis, Antihero, astrotoy, 36251, AlphaBravoCharlie, Ankee, 26 invisible), 2,027 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 35 of 75 1 2 33 34 35 36 37 74 75
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1422978
04/23/10 09:59 PM
04/23/10 09:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
J
jmmec Offline
Full Member
jmmec  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
dewster,

For the betterment of humanity, I did more investigation on the lack of 'sympathetic resonance' for the Roland HP-307 in the DPBSD test. I figured out the MIDI events to enable it, and modified v1.7 of the DPBSD MIDI file.

A new MP3 with sympathetic resonance, and the modified MIDI file to enable it, are at the website below in case you are interested in analyzing it:

http://wmsar.info/dewster_dpbsd/

For Test #2 your "readme" states "Listen for a brief weak G5 note at the beginning of the test, possibly accompanied by the very faint sound of C1 & C3 & ...etc...". I can clearly hear the resonance of the G5 & C-notes when playing the test on HP-307, but it is very difficult to hear in the MP3 [at least for me]. You'll notice a big difference when the loud C2 is played. I don't know how other tests may or may not be affected.

If you do decide to analyze the file, then please let me know if other problems still persist; I think they were pedal up/down & key up?

NOTE: I suspect there is more to sympathetic resonance than just the 'string resonance' setting in "Piano Designer", especially since there are several parameters related to resonance alone. All parameters were at their 'default' setting, with "Reverb" disabled.


Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1422981
04/23/10 10:06 PM
04/23/10 10:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
California
P
pkdd Offline
Full Member
pkdd  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
California
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by sullivang
For me, I think the dynamic range of the timbre is more important than the dynamic range of the amplitude.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

It's trivial to change amplitude, and much harder to change timbre, so large dynamic range shouldn't be emphasized as necessarily a good thing.


I agree that less amplitude dynamic range is better when playing with headphones for the sake of my hearing, but otherwise I want both timbre and amplitude to have wide dynamic ranges. I don't want to sound like a digitally compressed recording. I want to sound live.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: jmmec] #1423206
04/24/10 08:52 AM
04/24/10 08:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by jmmec
For Test #2 your "readme" states "Listen for a brief weak G5 note at the beginning of the test, possibly accompanied by the very faint sound of C1 & C3 & ...etc...". I can clearly hear the resonance of the G5 & C-notes when playing the test on HP-307, but it is very difficult to hear in the MP3 [at least for me]. You'll notice a big difference when the loud C2 is played. I don't know how other tests may or may not be affected.

I'm able to hear key down sympathetic resonance in there, though it is fairly subtle.

Originally Posted by jmmec
If you do decide to analyze the file, then please let me know if other problems still persist; I think they were pedal up/down & key up?

- Pedal and key noises are missing.
- It passes the pedal down silent replay test.
- It passes the quick pedal partial damping test.

The big thing that's missing is pedal down sympathetic resonance - I'm straining and looking but can't detect any.

Also your levels could be better, the peak is -8.65dB, and the noise floor is around -72dB.

Thanks for your efforts to capture this, the SuperNATURAL piano sound is very promising technology.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423322
04/24/10 12:14 PM
04/24/10 12:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
dewster
I was reviewing mp3 of Yamaha CP1, and I think you missed something important. It has 5 layers, not 4, and the last layer switch is quite audible, not only visible.
With 50 stretch groups, it seems that CP1 has sample set very similar to CLP380.

Here is the picture with layers switches marked:

[Linked Image]


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1423354
04/24/10 12:44 PM
04/24/10 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 172
Hertfordshire, UK
N
NikkiPiano Offline
Full Member
NikkiPiano  Offline
Full Member
N

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 172
Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by bkmz
it seems that CP1 has sample set very similar to CLP380.


But isn't that purely conjecture? I'm interested in the seeing the CLP380 mp3, myself. Anyone got one?

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: NikkiPiano] #1423362
04/24/10 12:53 PM
04/24/10 12:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
Of course, i'm just guessing. I said "similar", not "the same".


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1423427
04/24/10 02:49 PM
04/24/10 02:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by bkmz
I was reviewing mp3 of Yamaha CP1, and I think you missed something important. It has 5 layers, not 4, and the last layer switch is quite audible, not only visible.

Hmm. I looked at it again very closely and the second layer switch you have marked is really subtle - kind of a judgment call. But, as you said, you can hear the last switch. I'll update the review text - thanks!

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423437
04/24/10 03:03 PM
04/24/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Funny too how the CP1 has essentially no timbre change from velocity=1 to velocity=54. And the dynamic range is only 38dB. I guess it makes sense to put more transitions on the higher velocity end, where the piano really start going non-linear.

If anyone is interested, here is a highly compressed version of the CP1 layer test with the amplitude variation removed, so all you hear is timbre variation:

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmdwgzjgnww

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423442
04/24/10 03:21 PM
04/24/10 03:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
Originally Posted by http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/Pianos/CP1_Catalog_Y30C.pdf

The Spectral Component Modeling system starts with a fundamentally different tone generation system than Yamaha has ever used before. .. It also uses a complete different method of playback than normal sampling technology. Rather than multi-velocity layers of samples, SCM uses granular parametric data so every nuance of the player’s touch is translated into expressive tone.


What a bullshit. Shame to Yamaha for lying to its customers.


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1423454
04/24/10 03:32 PM
04/24/10 03:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
This is why the DPBSD project has BS in the title.

It's technobabble like that that pretty much forced me into doing the project in the first place - at some point I just couldn't take it any more.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423487
04/24/10 04:50 PM
04/24/10 04:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
EastWest Quantum Leap Goliath Pianos - Triple Review!

Thanks once again to pesk, we have DPBSD MP3s of (count 'em) three EastWest Quantum Leap Goliath Pianos for our analyzing and listening pleasure: the Fazioli F308 2 gig, the Steinway B, and the PMI Bosendorfer 290 - thanks pesk!

First, the things they have in common: None appear to be looped, which is good. But all fail the key down sympathetic resonance test, the brief pedal partial damping test, and the partial pedaling test. All of them have a strange response to the pedal down silent replay test - there is no audible damping during the test (which is good) but the velocity=1 note continues past the end - which should be impossible as no keys or pedals are being held at that point! There are no key up or pedal up/down sounds in any of the pianos, and the velocity layer switches are all quite visible and audible.

In terms of stretching, the Steinway doesn't appear to be stretched, the Fazioli with 82 groups is lightly stretched, and the Bosendorfer with 51 groups is the most stretched. In terms of velocity layer count, the Bosendorfer has 5, the Fazioli has 4, and the Steinway has 3. Seems like some kind of layer count / note stretch trade-off going on there.

The Bosendorfer and Fazioli both have very short note decay times, with the Fazioli bass notes coming to an abrupt stop fairly early. The Steinway has nice long note decays, and is also the only one that passes the pedal down sympathetic resonance test. The Bosendorfer has many of its samples marred by audible "clacks" and "thumps".

Reviews below, MP3s and more analysis pics at the share point.

[Linked Image]
Waveform view of the Fazioli. Note very short bass note decay & truncation.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view of the Bosendorfer. This one is the most stretched of the bunch.

[Linked Image]
Spectral frequency view of the Steinway, where both layer switches are visible.



----------------------------------------------------
- EastWest Quantum Leap Goliath Fazioli F308 2 gig -
----------------------------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v1.6_ewql_goliath_fazioli_f308_2gig.mp3
- Recorded in Cubase 5, converted to MP3 in Wavelab 6 w/ LAME encoder.
- All settings default except reverb off.
- Recorded by "pesk".
PROS:
- No looping.
- Only a small amount of stretching.
- Stretch distances: 1(x5),2,1(x13),2,1(x10),2,1(x13),2,1(x5),2,1(x6),2,1(x24) = 82 groups.
- 4 velocity layers.
- Velocity switch @ vel=62,96,112.
CONS:
- Fails the pedal down sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the key down sympathetic resonance test.
- Passes/fails the pedal down silent replay test, no damping during test, but vel=1 note continues past the end!
- Fails the brief pedal partial damping test.
- Fails the partial pedaling test.
- Lowest notes have quite short decay, ~1/2 Pianoteq, truncated.
- Samples have low frequency noise (air conditioner?).
- No key up or pedal up/down sounds.
- Velocity layer switches quite visible and very audible.
OTHER:
- Dynamic range 39dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -1.6dB, noise floor @ -90dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-04-23.


--------------------------------------------
- EastWest Quantum Leap Goliath Steinway B -
--------------------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v1.6_ewql_goliath_steinway_b.mp3
- Recorded in Cubase 5, converted to MP3 in Wavelab 6 w/ LAME encoder.
- All settings default except reverb off.
- Recorded by "pesk".
PROS:
- Passes the pedal down sympathetic resonance test.
- No looping.
- Nice long decays on the order of Pianoteq (except for C1 which is a bit short).
- No obvious stretching.
- 3 velocity layers.
- Velocity switch @ vel=76,114.
CONS:
- Fails the key down sympathetic resonance test.
- Passes/fails the pedal down silent replay test, no damping during test, but vel=1 note continues past the end!
- Fails the brief pedal partial damping test.
- Fails the partial pedaling test.
- No key up or pedal up/down sounds.
- Velocity layer switches quite visible and very audible.
OTHER:
- Dynamic range 47dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -0.33dB, noise floor @ -90dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-04-23.


-----------------------------------------------------
- EastWest Quantum Leap Goliath PMI Bosendorfer 290 -
-----------------------------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v1.6_ewql_goliath_pmi_bosendorfer_290.mp3
- Recorded in Cubase 5, converted to MP3 in Wavelab 6 w/ LAME encoder.
- All settings default except reverb off.
- Recorded by "pesk".
PROS:
- No looping.
- 5 velocity layers.
- Velocity switch @ vel=34,66,98,114.
CONS:
- Fails the pedal down sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the key down sympathetic resonance test.
- Passes/fails the pedal down silent replay test, no damping during test, but vel=1 note continues past the end!
- Fails the brief pedal partial damping test.
- Fails the partial pedaling test.
- Low and high notes have quite short decay, ~1/2 Pianoteq.
- No key up or pedal up/down sounds.
- C3 has loud "clack" sound @ ~2sec.
- C5 & C7 have a "thump" sound near the end.
- Obviously stretched.
- Stretch distances: 1,2,1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2(x3),1,2,2,1,2,2,3 = 51 groups.
- Velocity layer switches quite visible and very audible, particulary @ vel=34,66,114.
OTHER:
- Dynamic range 23dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -0.25dB, noise floor @ -90dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-04-23.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423513
04/24/10 05:18 PM
04/24/10 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Native Instruments Kontakt 4 Factory Grand Piano Review

Thanks yet again to pesk, we have a DPBSD MP3 of the Native Instruments Kontakt 4 Factory Grand Piano - thanks pesk! I believe this is a free offering from NI.

This is a highly stretched, possibly looped, three velocity layer (with filtering) sample set. It's nice that they included key up and pedal up/down sounds, but I found them to be really obnoxious. It seems to have pedal down sympathetic resonance of some sort, and it surprisingly passes the pedal down silent replay test, but it fails the key down sympathetic resonance test, the brief pedal partial damping test, and the partial pedaling test. The velocity=15 G5 note used to signal the end of the DPBSD tests sounds strangely like a second higher note plays slightly later - very odd.

Review below, MP3 and more analysis pics at the share point.


[Linked Image]
Waveform view of the looping test. Note decays are nice and long.

[Linked Image]
Spectral phase view of the looping test. If there is looping it is very well done.

[Linked Image]
Spectral phase view of the stretch test. A mere 16 samples cover all 88 notes of this velocity layer.

[Linked Image]
Spectral frequency view of layer test, where both layer switches are clearly visible, as is some filtering to help blend them.



----------------------------------------------------
- Native Instruments Kontakt 4 Factory Grand Piano -
----------------------------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v1.6_ni_kontakt4_factory_grand.mp3
- Kontakt 4 non-realtime export, converted to MP3 in Wavelab 6 w/ LAME encoder.
- All settings default except reverb off.
- Recorded by "pesk".
PROS:
- Passes the pedal down sympathetic resonance test, though the effect is subtle.
- Pedal up/down sounds like loom-of-strings & key up makes "clunk" sound.
- Passes the pedal down silent replay test.
- Decay times are nice and long.
- 3 velocity layers with some filtering.
- Velocity switch @ vel=42,104
CONS:
- Fails the key down sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the brief pedal partial damping test.
- Fails the partial pedaling test.
- I believe it is looped, but not audibly, with very long attack and loop samples.
- Visibly and audibly very stretched.
- Stretch distances: 1,6(x5),5,4,6(x8) = 16 groups.
- Velocity layer switches quite visible and very audible.
- Pedal & key up effects are obnoxiously loud.
- G5 sounds like a second higher note plays slightly later.
OTHER:
- Dynamic range 42dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -3.81dB, noise floor @ -90dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-04-23.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423621
04/24/10 09:18 PM
04/24/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
J
jmmec Offline
Full Member
jmmec  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
Regarding the Roland HP-307:

Originally Posted by dewster

- Pedal and key noises are missing.


Yep! I hear that now (doh!). This confirms that the MIDI commands I added to DPBSD v1.7a for the "key down sympathetic resonance" test do not enable things like damper noise, etc, during MIDI playback. I plan to investigate this further, and am betting (hoping?) that additional MIDI commands are needed.

Originally Posted by dewster

The big thing that's missing is pedal down sympathetic resonance - I'm straining and looking but can't detect any.


I'm slowly figuring out what you've been talking about, and this post of yours about the CLP330 really helped:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...e%20DP%20BSD%20Project!.html#Post1386410

I've done strictly analog recordings this afternoon, and I can't reproduce the decay that you are expecting to see. At the website below I added some pictures and an MP3 in case you want to open it up in Adobe Audition:

http://wmsar.info/dewster_dpbsd/

Since the expected / characteristic decay is not present on the HP-307, then what are we hearing for the "damper down sympathetic resonance" test? Is it "super fake" sympathetic resonance? I'm really confused.

Originally Posted by dewster
Also your levels could be better, the peak is -8.65dB, and the noise floor is around -72dB.


Thanks for letting me know. I'm new at this, so I'll try to figure out how to improve it. I'm trying not to download Adobe Audition, but I think I might have to. smile

Last edited by jmmec; 04/24/10 09:48 PM.

Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: jmmec] #1423668
04/24/10 10:40 PM
04/24/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
It makes absolutely no sense to me why many critical sound features are missing when the HP-307 plays a MIDI file - shouldn't all features enabled be the default? Roland is leaving everyone to their own devices, flailing around trying to turn them back on, without so much as even a MIDI spec. It's almost like a major manufacturer isn't standing behind their product or something. People want to buy these things and have them just work, that's why they shell out the big bucks.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1423864
04/25/10 09:33 AM
04/25/10 09:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
J
jmmec Offline
Full Member
jmmec  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
Yep, I agree, especially being one that shelled out big bucks. It would be nice if Roland simply activated the current 'Piano Designer' settings during MIDI playback; or at least provided a menu option to enable or disable it. I plan to complain to Roland once I better understand the HP-307 MIDI behavior.

I'm still confused about the analog recordings that I took yesterday -- I hear what sounds like 'sympathetic resonance', but it doesn't seem to have the decay you're expecting. Any insight, or thoughts about what is happening?


Last edited by jmmec; 04/25/10 09:37 AM.

Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: jmmec] #1424074
04/25/10 05:45 PM
04/25/10 05:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
S
sullivang Offline
3000 Post Club Member
sullivang  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
Here's another little test to add to the TODO list: if the instrument provides a different timbre for the soft pedal, test how far this extends into the forte velocities.

I've just noticed that in the EWQLP, which does provide true soft pedal samples, that they have only provided low velocity samples. No matter how hard it is played with the soft pedal, the timbre is VERY mellow - it's not authentic.

Greg.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1424488
04/26/10 11:15 AM
04/26/10 11:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
TruePianos Diamond Re-Review (for v1.5.0)

Thanks to our tireless pesk, we have five DPBSD MP3s of the latest TruePianos offerings - thanks pesk! I reviewed TP Diamond v1.4.1 almost three months ago so this is a good time to revisit them.

Since they are fairly similar, I decided to only analyze the Diamond piano in any depth. All of them appear to be looped, and benefit from fairly long attack samples, but they really could use longer loop samples. The low note decay is nice, but the upper notes decay rather quickly. There is a fair amount of stretching going on, both visibly and audibly. What's interesting is that the velocity layers are smoothly blended, much like the latest hardware-based DP fare, so there is no obvious velocity layer switching going on.

All pass the silent replay and brief pedal damping tests, all fail the key down sympathetic resonance test, and there is no support for partial pedaling. All are supposed to have pedal down sympathetic resonance, but for the life of me I just couldn't hear it (pesk confirms that it was indeed enabled in the options). For some reason only the Sapphire Pedal piano has pedal sounds (clunky loom-of-strings sounds) - all other lack this. And none of them have key up sounds.

Review below, MP3s and more analysis pics at the share point.


[Linked Image]
Waveform view of the looping test. Decay times for the low notes are nice and long, but the higher notes have rather short decay times.

[Linked Image]
Spectral phase view of the note C4. Looping is quite clearly seen here.

[Linked Image]
Spectral phase view of the stretch test, middle notes. 24 samples are pressed into service to cover 88 notes.

[Linked Image]
Spectral frequency view of layer test. Timber variation is smooth with no velocity switching evident.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view of the pedal down sympathetic resonance test. Pedal down on left, up on right. I couldn't hear any difference.




-----------------------------
- TruePianos Diamond v1.5.0 -
-----------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- All settings default.
- Recorded in Cubase 5, converted to MP3 in Wavelab 6.
- Recorded by "pesk".
PROS:
- Passes the pedal down silent replay test.
- Passes the brief pedal partial damping test.
- Good lower note decay times, higher notes rather short.
- Nicely blended velocity layers, no switching visible or audible.
CONS:
- Fails the key down sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the partial pedaling test.
- Visibly and audibly looped.
- Attack sample lengths are (C1:C8): 9.8,6.5,4.8,4.3,4.0,1.8,?,? seconds.
- Loop sample lengths are (C1:C8): 2.4,0.9,1.1,1.2,0.8,0.3,?,? seconds.
- Visibly and audibly very stretched.
- Stretch distances: 8,4(x4),2,5,3,4(x6),3(x3),1,3,5,2,2,1,7 = 24 groups.
- No pedal up/down or key up sounds (Sapphire Pedal has pedal sounds).
OTHER:
- Something like pedal down sympathetic resonance slightly visible, not audible.
- Sample set sizes: Amber (117 MB); Diamond (70 MB); Emerald (84 MB); Sapphire (107 MB).
- Dynamic range 59dB (vel=1:127).
- MP3 levels: peak @ -6.3dB, noise floor @ -90dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-02-03; updated: 2010-04-26.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1424685
04/26/10 04:48 PM
04/26/10 04:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,704
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,704
Hamamatsu, Japan
I thought 'True Pianos' was modelled, not sampled?
Which package am I thinking of, in addition to Pianoteq, of course?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James] #1424704
04/26/10 05:23 PM
04/26/10 05:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by KAWAI James
I thought 'True Pianos' was modelled, not sampled?
Which package am I thinking of, in addition to Pianoteq, of course?

Good question! You're undoubtedly thinking of TruePianos, because I myself have heard this over and over in web forums. I did a Google search of "Truepianos modeled" (without quotes) and got 86,800 hits.

But then I go over to http://www.truepianos.com and do a text search for "model" on all of the pages I'm allowed access to and come up with nothing.

I don't know where the whole "TruePianos is modeled" meme came from, but it seems TruePianos themselves aren't pushing it, at least not explicitly any more. From their FAQ:

Quote
What technology does TruePianos use to produce it's piano sound ?
We combine different technologies at different places, following the 'common sense' rule. Things, that generally work better with sampling - we use samples for, and for the features, where samples make the product less versatile - we use other techniques. We are going to proceed with the same philosophy in the future as well. What-is-what may change inbetween the versions to maintain the best quality and experience of the product.

Unless one has a woefully inadequate PC that won't play anything but lobotomized romplers, I'm not sure why anyone would buy their stuff. The layer blending is nice, and the attack sample lengths are adequate, but with those babies comes a fair amount of dirty bathwater.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1424714
04/26/10 05:38 PM
04/26/10 05:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 172
Hertfordshire, UK
N
NikkiPiano Offline
Full Member
NikkiPiano  Offline
Full Member
N

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 172
Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by dewster

Unless one has a woefully inadequate PC that won't play anything but lobotomized romplers, I'm not sure why anyone would buy their stuff. The layer blending is nice, and the attack sample lengths are adequate, but with those babies comes a fair amount of dirty bathwater.


Someone is....

From the VSL Vienna Imperial manual:
This software contains copyrighted elements of the following third parties:
(C) 2005–2009 4Front Technologies
(C) 2005–2008 SIA Syncrosoft
(C) 2003–2008 Alberto Demichelis,
(C) 1995–2005 Jean-Loup Gailly and Mark Adler,
(C) 1998–2008 Glenn Randers-Pehrson,
(C) 2000-2007 Josh Coalson
(C) 1996–2008 The FreeType Project,
(C) 1998–2000 Thai Open Source Software Center Ltd and Clark Cooper,
(C) 1998–2000 Clark Cooper,
(C) 2001–2008 Keith Packard,
(C) 2001–2008 Carl Worth,
(C) 2001–2006 Expat maintainers,
(C) 2002 University of Southern California.

Page 35 of 75 1 2 33 34 35 36 37 74 75

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Accessible Great Piano Music
by Keith D Kerman. 11/17/19 02:30 PM
Fingers and thumb movements for playing scales.
by Junkers 88. 11/17/19 01:27 PM
Horowitzian playing style
by KevinM. 11/17/19 11:42 AM
Help identify kurtzmann baby grand
by Marko13. 11/17/19 11:39 AM
How to get a slab to stop sliding on a portable stand?
by Tyrone Slothrop. 11/17/19 10:34 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,150
Posts2,892,007
Members94,991
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1