Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum How did my thread get closed, I wasn't done updating lol

DD, sorry for the gender confusion. No offense was intended. I think you make a valid point that as the expert the parents hired, you need to teach a student in the way you feel is best in your informed opinion. If another teacher gets involved teaching the same stuff in a different way, that can throw this out of whack (FWIW, a master class is so much different than taking lessons simultaneously, so that argument doesn't really hold water to those of you who would bring that up).

I'm glad they decided to take longer lessons with you, and I hope that her practicing picks up. Perhaps this little jaunt with the other teacher really showed them how much they appreciate you!

If a student is a transfer student, I never talk down about that teachers methods, I'll never say that my say will over rule in that case.

Sounds more than a little different to:

I sometimes hear my students say "well my music teacher said" or "my old piano teacher said". I stop them right there and say "they are not your piano teacher, I am". I don't think this is a power trip, I just want to make it clear who is in charge and who is not. If the money is given to me, I believe my say should come before any other teacher.

That paragraph was objectionable in more ways than I can describe- quite independently of the specific situation you were describing elsewhere. It doesn't describe someone "staring you down" or misbehaving. It describes an inquisitive mind being told to subdue itself and just obey because you tell them to do so. I just hope what you say this time (in square contradiciton to what you said before) is substantially more representative of how you deal with students than what I quoted from you above.

Dragon, just curious, what do you do if a student says "No I learn it better this way, or find I this works better than what you showed me."

Do you insist that the student follow your way, or do you let theme do what they like.

Music is about discovery and curiosity. There are many paths leading to that.

Wow

You must really think I'm a control freak.

If a student finds its easier to do something different from what I'm saying, we discuss it and sometimes we go that way. No problem.

I insist the student follow my way, not some random teacher who feels like showing her a thing or two.

My say comes before some random piano teacher or their school music teacher. I've had enough students come with really bad habits and mistakes that I've had to undo. All my transfered students come from a teacher I have met and spoke to in person. We've discuss our methods, how she has taught them, how I teach my students etc...They have blended well. We've never had an issue with the student saying "well my old piano teacher said". Their old piano teacher was good, it was a good foundation.

A student coming from a random piano teacher who I don't know (a number of whom I have heard horror stories from the students point of view) sometimes says "well my old piano teacher said". In that instance, we are looking for a fresh start. They tried the other teachers method and obviously it didn't work, so I don't want them to be thinking about their method anymore. Thus my say overrules because the previous method did not get the job done and we'll just say its not the way to go anymore.

If a student finds its easier to do something different from what I'm saying, we discuss it and sometimes we go that way. No problem.

I insist the student follow my way, not some random teacher who feels like showing her a thing or two.

Are you honestly unaware of the fact that the second sentence already massively contradicts the first? This almost reads like a parody. Seriously. Why should "some random teacher" matter- if you actually abide by the first sentence? What matters, if you care about progress, is what works. That has NOTHING to do with who happened to suggest it. That should not even enter the thought process. The way you phrased that, it practically sounds like you would sometimes deliberately contradict what a student got from someone else, no matter whether it worked. I really hope I'm mistaken, but you basically proceeded to discredit what you said about being open minded before you even finished the next sentence.

Also, nothing here changes the fact that if a student says perfectly innocently that they are used to doing somethign different, to stamp your foot and behave in a way that seems to say "Tough. I'm in charge now" is not productive. That is the key issue for me. In such a situation, you need to earn their trust. Imposing authority and telling them not to question you does not achieve that. Rewarding the inquisitiveness before responding to it with an explanation as to why you would like them to try something different is overwhelmingly more likely to gain trust.

I think the two statements have assumptions behind them which remove all apparent inconsistency, Nyiregyhazi....

If the student turns up at a lesson doing something that impairs their playing and then they insist on doing it (despite the fact it's wrong/unhelpful/dangerous/time-wasting - select appropriate description as occurs in each instance) *because* their former/alternate teacher has told them to, then the teacher they are with at the moment has no further ability to assist them in their learning. The student places no value on the guidance of the teacher they are with if they won't work *with* the teacher to find a solution.

It's rare for a student to find a technical solution to a problem unassisted - if they could have found the solution they wouldn't have had the problem, as a rule..... But there are all kinds of other aspects of being a piano student that the first statement refers to: maybe it's how to practice, maybe it's how to count a rhythm, maybe it's how to shape a phrase, maybe it's how to create a climax - and many of these things have umpteen approaches the might work. One would assume the teacher is in an excellent position to guide the student (whether that involves the student's inclinations being followed, or not).

One has nothing to contribute if all one's guidance is always considered a second-rate contribution.

I've never had a piano teacher tell me to do something that wasn't valuable, and the loss would have been mine if I had insisted on doing things the way I did the year before. Each piece is a new challenge and each phase of repertoire acquisition creates brand new opportunities for growth. Refusing to participate in growth with your teacher diminishes to nil the value of the lesson.

Actually, yeah you do sound like a control freak. I mean, your reaction of anger and frustration isn't typical for a teacher when their student gets lessons from someone else.

You say you "insist" on the student following your way. I never teach like that. I show the student several ways and approaches.

You ever seen how Thelonious Monk plays? Very angular and sharp, disjointed, but brilliant.

Or Keith Jarrett and how he howls and makes weird noises and body spasms.

Both are great pianists and have figured out what works best from them.

True there can be bad teachers who've given students bad habits and you need to correct that. But you aren't showing the student how to figure things out and experiment to find out what works best for them.

REALLY?!!!!

I would like to address the issue of former teachers generally. Different scenarios are possible. The first teacher may teach similarly to the new one, or have taught well but differently. In that case the 2nd teacher can at least build on what the student has. Supposing, however, that the first teacher has ruined the student in some way, or let the student believe he was doing well without really teaching?

A special relationship builds between a student and his teacher, and no relationship is as strong as the one with the first teacher. You cannot expect a new student to be indifferent to his first teacher - there is loyalty, and affection is wrapped into what was taught. There is also TRUST. The student trusts his teacher guided him, that he learned the right thing. If that is not so, then it is a shock and not something he'd want to know. It also means he cannot rely on what he thought he had gained, and that is a shaky feeling you'd rather not have. If a student learns he has been misled, there is also betrayal, loss of trust, anger, and sadness. It might be easier to vent at the new teacher than be angry at the old. These are realities. Maybe students need to be controlled, but it still exists.

Nyer. touched on something else. If you trusted your first teacher and it turns out you were conned, how can you trust the second. And how to you know which teacher lied to you? It is easy for the new teacher to know, but a student who is still dependent on guidance and so does not have the judgment, how can he tell? For a teacher to say "because I said so, I'm the boss" (which is how it came across) - that does not feel very safe from where I'm sitting.

Back to the scenario of going from one good teacher to another good teacher who does things differently. There are different angles to approaching music, some of them seeming contradictory. When we are beginners we like the idea that things are done one certain way, so we know where we are. We do not yet know that teacher A's & teacher B's "conflicting approaches may actually be two sides to a same picture. If you get B's approach then maybe your playing will be so much richer in ways you can't imagine just now. However, A worked fine for you - why would you want to abandon or fool around with it? This is especially so if you still think there is only one right way.

This is assuming a wise teacher who has the skills, and will be able to guide her student. Those teachers who believe students are walking fire hydrants, that's not under discussion here.

I hate to break with conventional wisdom (no I don't) but I don't think there are such things. The order of delivery may differ, but never content.

That student didn't quit lessons with Dragon and all of a sudden jump to a new teacher. They tried the teacher out while still sticking with you.

If they are looking at other teachers, it means they aren't getting something from you. And if that's the case then so be it.

I suspect that if teacher A were demonstrating that there are a number of approaches to learning repertoire, for instance, it would be a simple thing for a student to continue gaining even more approaches from a second teacher. A student insisting on doing things in one way only suggests that they were taught in a "there-is-only-one-right-way" manner (OR that the student just has that personality!!).

Huh?

Ah, well, context tempers a blanket response.....

Maybe the way you teach is bad and I should correct that. I don't think anyone is going to mind because its not typical for a teacher to get angry and frustrated when their student is getting lessons from someone else. There's no twist of your word, no assumptions and this seems to be the view point of a few people here. You guys can share you're students around all you want and you can teach how ever you want because its your business right? I don't share my students and I teach how I want because its my business right?

In terms of contradicting myself, ya it would be contradicting if you just read it without thinking beyond "how am I going to make DD look like a fool with what he just said".

Let's try to be super clear. Students who have been half taught, mis-informed, etc...are to forget about their previous teacher and accept my method. They can question it the first few times, but they learn very fast why questioning my ability or knowledge is not going to help them in anyway. I don't really care how it sounds, the point is for them to come learn from me. They pay me to guide them because they obviously cannot do it own their own. Questioning me every chance they get is not something that should be a priority in any way. Should the instance come where they have something unique to offer, I'll listen. But really...should I expect any student to surprise me every lesson by showing me about learning piano more than a handful of times?

Dragon, man all I can say is I'm glad you weren't my teacher!! And it sounds like you only teach classical, right?

I teach bad? Pretty funny man, if you're offering a free lesson come on down.

Sounds like you got people issues more than piano issues.

I'm reading most of this conversation as not realising we are talking about kids as young as 5 in this kind of a context (not necessarily this particular instance). I once had a 5 year old start with me [an absolute beginner], skip the second lesson, turn up at the third having practiced nothing at all, and instead of having a fourth lesson they said they had decided to stick with their 'first' teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say, I didn't even bother wasting my time pursuing them for the two lessons' worth of fees they owed me - GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

Really? My student tried another teacher because they weren't getting something from me? Strange, I could swear we have pages upon pages of post referring to the fact that I have discussed extended lessons with the student because we were lacking time and not so much because she wasn't getting enough out of me.

Sorry, I didn't bother to read most of it. Too much drivel. Keep venting though, it might help dissipate your anger.