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I have a student I've been working with for maybe 3 years now. She is a very good student, but does need more lesson time and more practice time.
The father suggested today that they could get supplementary lessons from this other teacher down the street. She studied in Poland and could help my student.
I didn't want to say anything rash on the spot because I've never been in this spot. After thinking about it for a bit, I'm not very impressed, no matter what kind of background this teacher has. I've been working hard with this student for years and I'm not about to let another teacher needlessly come and interfere with my students progress in anyway just because its convenient for her.

Thoughts?

Down the street from you or down the street from them?

I'm guessing the teacher, not the Dad, initiated this. We've had an ongoing problem with teachers from the former Eastern Block nations trying to "steal" students. I chalk it up to a difference in ethical standards and backgrounds; I'm sure they don't realize how totally offensive it is.

Down the street from them. I sent my student to the festival to watch the concert etudes class, she said she will enjoy it. I will speak to the father tomorrow or Thursday for the 2nd lesson this week and discuss this with him. I tend to fly off the handle a bit, so I want to think about this rationally before I say anything about this matter to him. So far, I'm rather upset about another teacher moving in on a student that is clearly mine. Every time I meet a piano student, I never suggest that I could teach them extra lessons if I already know they have a teacher. Regardless if I am better or worse, that's not good in my books.

Did the other teacher approach your student first? Or did your student's father approach the teacher?

A couple of random thoughts come to mind:

We do not "own" our students. They are free to do what they want.

Luring students away from other teachers is considered unethical, especially when accomplished through devious means. (Bad-mouthing the current teacher, undercutting the market rate, etc...)

Everybody loses students to other teachers from time to time; and everybody receives students from other teachers from time to time. When done ethically and gracefully, it's a good thing for everyone involved. When not handled well, it can cause deep rifts and a fearful or antagonistic attitude within the community.

If you're a member of your local music teachers' association, there may very well be a code of conduct or ethical guidelines that, if breached, could mean certain sanctions against this other teacher. If you're not a member of an organized group and have no legal contract with your student, then there's pretty much nothing you can do. (It's a free country, and people can do as they please, even when it's unethical, unkind and unpopular.)

Be careful.

Kreisler, I am sure you mean to say, "If *this other teacher* is a member of your local ..." because unless he/she is, there's nothing any MTA can do.

I don't want some organization to come into the mix. This has never happen to me before and I've been at this for 12 years. I don't know who approached who, but I know the lessons have already start as my student was demonstrating how the teacher was showing her dominant 7th arpeggios. This "might" be a different story if I couldn't handle teaching this student in any way, but I have a handle on everything and don't need someone else coming in and doing this.
I may not own this student and they are free to make whatever decisions they want. If you want to switch to another teacher after being referred to me from their previous teacher, go ahead. But for the other teacher to know that she was my student and start lessons before I was informed was a big no-no. I've spent a lot of time un-doing other teachers mistakes (easy there ) and I don't want to re-teach my student something because it was already taught by someone else.
I'm already re-writting my studio policy. I never thought I would have to mention something about this in it. Everyone I've talked to said they would be upset if they were me.
Haven't even mentioned how a move like this could affect my income. The dad is getting a call tomorrow morning and not at the next lesson, I had my cool down period at the gym

Would you share how you are addressing this issue in your studio policy?

I can empathize with you. Here's my advice based on having been in the exact same position. Call the father and state that you are upset he has gone this route of hiring another teacher. Explain that to get a second opinion is a good idea and commonly done for one performance. But to hire a second teacher is not usual. Then state you will continue as their teacher ONLY if you are their only teacher. Then pause or give them some time to think. But do not continue as you are.

I did, and it was a big mistake. The student became confused. I stated that a certain piece required pedalling. The other teacher wanted no pedalling. The student would begin to doubt me or ask me to defend my teaching decisions. I taught an arpeggio with a certain fingering but my student would use the other teacher's fingering. It's better to cut your losses and get out of the situation immediately.

I'd flat out tell the father how insulting this behavior is and that if they are unhappy with the child's progess with you, they should just say so and be done with it.

Maybe she's a better teacher?

Even if she was, who cares. I have taught this student for 3 years, there is a connection that no amount of outside experience can compare to. She's happy with me, so where is the need to get outside help? What if you found out today that I started teaching one of your students without anyone informing you till after the fact? And before anything was said, how would you feel if some random person suggested that maybe me stealing your student for "supplementary" lessons was because I was a better teacher?
I think if you weren't absolutely outraged by this, I should do this with a lot of your students until you became outraged.

New thoughts?

Is it possible to get fuller perspective on this?

You wrote that this student needs more lesson time than she is getting. If that is so, have you offered her more time, or extra lessons to fulfill that need?

Second: I'm reading about supplementary lessons, which means extra or additional lessons. However, there is a lot of talk about stealing your student, which suggests your student leaving you or having less time with you, and the other teacher replacing you. I get this sense from a number of teachers.

So what does "supplementary" mean to a parent or student? (I've been both). It can mean that you are totally loyal to your teacher whom you see as your teacher, but someone else may offer some new angle which will round out what you are learning. Think of the fact that teachers send their students to masterclasses without thinking that this teacher is "getting a piece" of their student. The only thing that a teacher does is to * give * knowledge - not take away. If you are intent on learning, then you want to grab opportunities that come up. It is not meant as a slight to the teacher. In fact, you may think that the original teacher will be pleased that his student is learning as much as he can from wherever he can. This is a student/parent perspective.

Where is the problem in this? Can the other teacher confuse your student by teaching things differently than you do? Might that teacher introduce things that you want to wait before touching - interfere with what you are teaching? Non-teachers will not be aware of it, so you have to let them know.

Otoh, how would you feel if you knew of a teacher who teaches some specialized areas that you don't teach? Would you be enthusiastic on behalf of your student, wanting her to learn these additional things on top of what you teach? Students would probably expect that attitude from their teachers. We would not want to feel held back from opportunities because a teacher needs to be the exclusive teacher unless there was sound reason.

I think a fair number of students would not be aware of teachers feeling the way that you do. The very fact that the father has told you, and the student has shown you what she has learned, is proof that they have no idea this would upset you.

This is a discussion I should not interfere in, so feel free to ignore my comments if you like.

As a student, I first want to say that I do understand your concerns and why you are upset about the situation. What I also can see is that this might maybe not at all be obvious to nonteachers. My suggestion is that you first find out why they decided to go for a second teacher for the student, and really try to listen to the answer without drawing conclusions to fast.

This might sound a little insensitive, but as you said that the student could use more lesson time, maybe the parents thought that a different teacher would be a good choice. Even if I have a great relationship with a teacher, such a thing might get me into thinking that the teacher "wants" the income. If more lesson time is needed, why is the teacher not happy about that we arranged for it?! I am very sure that Dark Dragon has the very best intentions for the students, so be prepared for that they might think they did a good thing by hiring a second teacher.

They might think that for supplementary lessons they don't need to have the very best teacher. That it is enough to have someone a little cheaper. Getting a second teacher might not at all mean that they are thinking about switching or are not happy.

They might also see it as a way to get a different perspective, which in most cases is a good thing. They might be thinking, howcome you think you know it all, and that a different teacher has notthing of value to teach at all?

They might be thinking that theachers will be working on different materals, or styles, and that that means that there shouldn't be any conflict between what is taught.

You need to take a deep breath, and to give friendly and open examples of that there really can be a problem with having two teachers. If you can see why they are thinking it is a good idea, you can start there and show that the result will not really be what they assumed. If the parents are not musicians, they might have a hard time understanding the process of learning an instrument. Maybe involve them more, so that it becomes more clear to them how skills are built, and why for example more practice time might be needed. If the parents are not interested, it might be difficult, but I think it would make everything a lot easier for you in the long run.

I apologize again for meddling into something that is not my business. I wish you good luck, and that things work out for the best.

There is a very clear difference between me sending a student to a teacher that I've recommended if I felt there was an area of expertise that they had that I did not. I am by no means the ultimate teacher, but I really do not need assistance with my student. I think parents somehow forget that students need to connect with their teachers and that that connection does not happen with any teacher. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Supplementary lessons by another teacher with my referral or advice could be beneficial if I know the teacher and his/her expertise etc.

Teachers who thinks its ok to undermine me and do supplementary lessons with my student without my prior knowledge, causes me to lose respect for that teacher immediately. No phone call, no letter, no notice of any kind about this matter. By being this disrespectful to me, why am I not to think that this teacher isn't out to steal my student? If I was going to teach a student (who already had a teacher) in good faith, I would surely contact the teacher before hand, wouldn't you? I have a student at my private school who now goes to someone else. I could easily teach her on my spare time, but this thing called respect and ethics kind comes up, you know?

I sometimes hear my students say "well my music teacher said" or "my old piano teacher said". I stop them right there and say "they are not your piano teacher, I am". I don't think this is a power trip, I just want to make it clear who is in charge and who is not. If the money is given to me, I believe my say should come before any other teacher.

Ok here is the full story

My students dad insists that my student write her grade 6 piano exam in June after starting it roughly January. I personally feel this is rather rushed. We have 2 half hour sessions a week. Usually it is 1 for rep/studies, 1 for technique, ear training, sight etc..... Due to the timing of the recent festival, I've had to make sure her pieces were ready to go so that she would have a positive experience. Festival was a check.
I've mentioned to the father that I am concerned that his daughter won't be as prepared as we all would like her to be. I stated why she is where she is at. Before we get into extra lesson time, he has clearly stated that she has not practiced nearly as much as she did for her previous grades (thus the mediocre grade for grade 5 piano in Jan). So needless to say, we needed to improve her practicing habits before we extend the lesson time. Her practicing had improved the few weeks before the festival and we were all happy.
The father says today that someone told him to talk to this Polish teacher who was near by to them. She trained in Poland and they are Polish too. He asked me what I thought about supplementary lessons. I told him I did not have time to discuss this because I wanted to get to my lesson with the daughter on time. The daughter wanted to show me her arpeggios that she learned. She wanted to see that I was impressed and showed no sign of ill intent (for definite lack of a better word ).

Just another side note. I was referred by their long time piano teacher who retired. This new teacher was referred by a friend/neighbor.

Finally....

This student does not need something from another teacher that I cannot already provide. It's grade 6 RCM for crying out loud. I'm more than capable and the thought that my ability is remotely questioned has really set me off. Hope that doesn't sound like a power trip

All this girl needs is more time with me, recommending extending current 30min sessions to 45min sessions twice a week. We have less than 8 weeks and I think we can do it.
She needs to make sure her practicing is not in question as it was prior to the festival.

There are many reasons why I insist on being the exclusive teacher. The #1 reason is that I have a method, you have a method, we all have our unique ways of teaching. No need to discuss which method is better as we all know there are many ways of teaching successfully. Wither she is taught successfully or not, my method will more than likely conflict and I do not want to spend a minute helping the poor girl un-learn this other teachers method. "but she said...." She should go put out flyers and start from scratch like many of us did years ago. If she is so great and educated in "Poland", she shouldn't have a hard time building up the clientele no? I put in a LOT of hard work to get my clientele and to build my business to where its at. I haven't said much about the prospect of losing a student and income in this manner, but the idea alone gets me going.
BTW What part of studying in Poland gives this teacher any advantage of a teacher who has studied RCM in Canada? Doesn't look like Poland around.

In my opinion, this other teacher needs to back off. As another member stated, the father needs to commit to me 100% or not at all.

Really, really don't want to sound like a jerk in any way, but if you put yourself in my shoes, you'd find it hard not to be fuming.

I've been at this reply for a long time. sorry for the length, but now you guys have the full details (I hope).

Looking forward to the reply to this monster

Regardless of any other considerations, I think that, at her level, having two teachers is a terrible idea

DD--

Your posts come across as extremely insensitive toward the people of Poland. Your argument would have been stronger if you had left out the nationality of this piano teacher.

Note that the parents perspective the secondary teacher does not nessecary have to be better then you, just good enough to give the extra support. Something like when you have a hard time in maths or history you might offer an older student some money for extra tutoring. (I do see why this would be a mess, but the parent might see it.)

Who is the better teacher is not relevant here I think, because it is probably not that that has caused them to hire the Polish teacher. You need to take the time to communicate with the parents here. I assume they just don't get the problem, not that they want to mess up your planning. In either case, you want to be sure of their reasoning.

(BTW, maybe consider getting to know the Polish teacher? You don't know how the parents presented the situation, or what he/she was thinking about it. It could be relevant for you to find out for the future.)

Not to pour fuel on the fire, or to question your qualities. But don't forget, Poland is the country of a certain Chopin, a certain Rubenstein, Paderewski, Zimmerman, just to name the "household names". This tradition is very much alive. I have no doubt, not the slightest, that this teacher possesses something of this gigantic pianistic-musical capital, which is no small reference.

Me too. I've had a couple of students over the years that have done this - from what I can tell, it's usually because they've been offered cheap lessons at school and the parents, in their innocence, think that more music lessons can only be a good thing. I always discourage it, citing the analogy of 'he who tries to sail in two boats by putting one foot in each will end up getting his arse wet'.

LOL. Good God. Who cares where the teacher is from. It doesn't matter if she's from Poland, Timbuktu, or Antarctica. I have no doubt that you know NOT, one way, or the other, if this person possesses anything of some so-called tradition. It's not as if it's floating through the air in Poland and some just happen to catch it. Now, if you had some concrete evidence that her education stemmed from specific sources, then I'd say it MIGHT make a difference. The fact that a person is/was educated in a specific geographical location bears carries with it no magical bonus.