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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Robert 45] #1416477
04/13/10 01:07 PM
04/13/10 01:07 PM
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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert 45
I would indeed immediately insist on his final proposition and rid yourself of a defective piano and an unscrupulous dealer.

All the best!

Robert.


While I disagree with the dealers comments on the problems, he has offered a full refund.

I would hardly call him unscrupulous.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Steve Cohen] #1416588
04/13/10 04:17 PM
04/13/10 04:17 PM
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wouter79 Offline OP
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I think I need to check out the bridges of a number of other grands at the same level of detail. I will try to visit a few piano dealers to see for myself.

Also maybe some of you have a good camera and can take a few photos properly focused fotos of the bridge at close distance?



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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1416599
04/13/10 05:00 PM
04/13/10 05:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,805
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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If it were me, I'd take the refund... and without delay.

Meanwhile, don't let the the tech's written evaluation, the close-up photos, the written warranty, and your "Paid" invoice (with the serial that matches your piano) get away from you... until the refund check clears.

This seller may be upset at losing the sale, but that is not your lookout. Part of the purchase price is, after all, set aside to cover warranty expenses, and the manufacturer should make this good with the seller. I congratulate you on your restraint, not to have exposed him by name on the forum... and I wish you better luck in your piano shopping.


Clef

Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Jeff Clef] #1416614
04/13/10 05:17 PM
04/13/10 05:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 448
Richmond Hill, Ontario
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JD Grandt Offline
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I can't believe this whole post.
Did you buy a new piano? Yes.
Should a new piano have cracks around the bridge pins? No.
Everything else (although important) doesn't matter. Period.

If you bought a car and a section of the chassis was flawed, would you insist on a new car, or, wait until you were in an accident to find out that the frame was too weak and people were seriously injured when it could have been avoided.

I'm amazed that technician's would even offer any advise other than insisting the dealer either repair or replace to you, the customers, full satisfaction.

Wouter, at this point (considering what the dealer had the audacity to tell you) take your money back and then let everyone know which dealer it was.

Sorry, I have no patience for dealers that don't know anything about pianos and still try to sell them.


John
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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: JD Grandt] #1416627
04/13/10 05:54 PM
04/13/10 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
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manofsong Offline
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Take the refund. Then run.

C


I often wonder what could have been.

1917 Baldwin L, Satin Mahogany, #30220
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: manofsong] #1416772
04/13/10 11:07 PM
04/13/10 11:07 PM
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Posts: 380
Brazil
fe2008 Offline
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"Take the refund. Then run."
+2


Roland FP7F
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: fe2008] #1416931
04/14/10 08:21 AM
04/14/10 08:21 AM
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sophial Offline
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Yes, take him up on this before he changes his mind and get out now.

Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: sophial] #1419294
04/18/10 02:03 AM
04/18/10 02:03 AM
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wouter79 Offline OP
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I went to a piano showroom (not the one where I bought my piano) and checked their grands for cracks.

I checked 7 NEW grand pianos and found this

two pianos have a few cracks but in the lower bass section (mine has most in the c3-c4 range)

five pianos have a bit of gaps (space around pins not tight)


For comparison I also checked 3 older pianos, 20 to 40 years old. One of them had cracks in the high notes, and one of them had slight gaps.



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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419521
04/18/10 02:49 PM
04/18/10 02:49 PM
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wouter79 Offline OP
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I also checked a few old ones.

A steinway from 1961, two very small cracks and a few gaps in the high register but nothing else.

A steinbach of 1976, no cracks at all, a few gaps

A yamaha from 1976, multiple cracks in high registers. No gaps at all.

A dysen from 1906. A few cracks in the range c3-c4 similar in size and location to what is in my piano.

an iback from 1900. Loads and loads of cracks, very bad cracks scattered around the bridge. Lot of the cracks have been filled up with white stuff.



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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419527
04/18/10 03:01 PM
04/18/10 03:01 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,953
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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Why haven't you taken the dealer's offer for a full refund?


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419529
04/18/10 03:05 PM
04/18/10 03:05 PM
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wouter79 Offline OP
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From my piano inspections it shows that about 30% of the new pianos have cracks. (although my own piano has more cracks and more serious cracks than what I saw mostly).

Gaps around the pins seem even more common, about 70% of the new pianos seem to have them.

Nevertheless almost everyone I spoke with says that such cracks are inappropriate. Apparently dealers do not check for cracks at all and are just selling those pianos.

Also, from these numbers one would expect all old pianos to have cracks and gaps but this is not the case. In fact most older pianos that I saw look in great shape. Now I wonder, is that because only the good ones remained, were pianos build better to start with, or something else?



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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419545
04/18/10 03:36 PM
04/18/10 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,126
Texas
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I think you should get that refund while you still can. Wait too long, and the dealer may change his mind or worse yet, go out of business. You may have no warranty at all if the dealer closes since this is probably one of the Geneva International Petrofs. I repeat: TAKE THE MONEY AND SAY THANK YOU.


Dennis
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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: TX-Dennis] #1419568
04/18/10 04:11 PM
04/18/10 04:11 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,953
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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Again, why haven't you taken the dealer's offer for a full refund?


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Steve Cohen] #1419569
04/18/10 04:13 PM
04/18/10 04:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 791
The Netherlands
Konzert Patrick Offline
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You are playing expensive games......
My Yamaha GC1 had no cracks neither has my Schimmel.

It is not normal, you should take the refund, the piano is supposed to last a lifetime... this hardly will happen like this!

You money, your gamble, just be careful.


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Konzert Patrick] #1419610
04/18/10 06:05 PM
04/18/10 06:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,805
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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"From my piano inspections it shows that about 30% of the new pianos have cracks. (although my own piano has more cracks and more serious cracks than what I saw mostly). Gaps around the pins seem even more common, about 70% of the new pianos seem to have them. Nevertheless almost everyone I spoke with says that such cracks are inappropriate."

As many as that? Hmmm. It raised enough of a question in my mind that I went downstairs and looked at my RX-5's bridge; it's about two-and-a-half years old. Gaps = zero, "White stuff" = zero. Then--- I saw what looked like a hairline crack down toward the bass end of the bridge. Taking a closer look, it turned out to actually BE a hair. I could even name the dog it came from. So, Cracks = zero; "Bad animal!" Oh well, I shed, too, so who am I to accuse the dog.

So, Wouter--- you're going to keep it, cracks and all, then? I'd ask you why, but I can't bear to read any more. However, next time I go to a piano store maybe I'll take a magnifying glass, and...

Last edited by Jeff Clef; 04/18/10 06:07 PM.

Clef

Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419633
04/18/10 07:19 PM
04/18/10 07:19 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 21
Sammamish WA
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howardc64 Offline
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Sammamish WA
The black stuff around the pins is exactly what I saw in a 12 year old Weinbach this weekend (it was around a few bass string pins)). It looks like some black stuff is feathering from the pins.

Since Weinbach is made by Petrof, is this something characteristic of Petrof manufacturing? Is there some kind of paint/dye that causes this feathering?


Vogel V177R
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419774
04/19/10 12:21 AM
04/19/10 12:21 AM
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Posts: 5,072
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wouter79 Offline OP
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"Why haven't you taken the dealer's offer for a full refund?"

That option is still open.

The reason that I'm not eager to return it is that I really like the sound and that it took me so long to find one that I like. Returning it would mean that I have to re-start searching and I would be without piano again, maybe for a long time.


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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419784
04/19/10 01:03 AM
04/19/10 01:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Konzert Patrick Offline
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The piano you have now will give you trouble in the future.
With the money of the refund you can look around, try the same piano at a few stores, they do not vary that much! You now know what you like and dislike so the search does not have to take such a long time.....


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: Konzert Patrick] #1419800
04/19/10 02:13 AM
04/19/10 02:13 AM
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wouter79 Offline OP
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I think I forgot to mention: the dealer wanted a second opinion and that will happen friday. I wait at least till then.


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Re: small cracks at bridge pins [Re: wouter79] #1419802
04/19/10 02:17 AM
04/19/10 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
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London
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David-G Offline
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"The dealer proposed to return my money and take back the piano if I insist, as he thinks we will get into a stalemate."

You should have accepted this offer immediately, and then there would have been no need for a second opinion. Do you have confidence in the person who is going to give the second opinion?

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