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I noticed a number of tiny cracks around the bridge pins in my new piano. You kind of need magnifying glasses to see them but I know there is a lot of stress on these pins.

Is this normal?

It is not normal or better yet appropriate.

I hope the piano is still under warranty. A similar thing happened to a piano I owned when I was younger and the whole bass bridge had to be rebuilt. I'd get a technician to look at it when possible.

You should notify the dealer and request a warranty service call.

Is this the piano that was in the store for a long time? Curious what brand is it?

What piano is this? Age? Size?

Thanks for your expert advice.

This is a Petrof

I bought it new so yes, it must have been in the showroom many years.

I have had a piano technician inspect the instrument and he thought it was in good condition. At that time I did not know about these cracks. Later I checked the bridge because one or two notes are a bit harsh and I could not find the cause. I am not sure whether these cracks are related to that because these cracks are on more places while the harshness is just on a few notes.

I will contact him again with this photo.

BTW I have a question about a technical inspection as I had done on my piano. What could I expect from such an inspection? I expected the technician to inspect all kinds of details with glasses, pull out the keyboard for a good inspection, etc, but he mainly made some comments on the tuning.

The cracks are in the bridge cap(only that hopefully).They are not a good sign and probably should have been picked up in the inspection.You may want to think about changing the piano over,

Ian

Dear wouter,

This is a clear situation. A crack like that should be covered under warranty. Have the dealer look at this. Depending on the manufacturer and the location of the crack, the piano will either be repaired or replaced.

Keep us posted,

UPDATE

The dealer told me that it depends on whether it is a superficial crack or a crack throughout the entire bridge.

The dealer is coming next week to have a look at it in person.

A few questions:
1. To me these cracks look superficial, at this moment. Is my impression correct?
2. What makes these cracks particularly worrying? Will they grow over time? Will it change the sound of the piano already now? Does it cause problems with tuning? Or something else?
3. On the photo you can also see a small gap at the bottom of the pin, the pin does not seem to fit tight into the hole. Is that also a concern?

1.I'm not a bellyman but know enough as for obvious observations. I can confer with my bellyman tomorrow.
I don't think any bridge crack can be considered superficial because eventually it won't be superficial.

2.They (cracks) will grow over time because the bridge pins are moving because of the string tension. It will change the sound because it affects the side bearing and ?. It will affect the tuning because it is affecting the stability of the bridge pins.

3.The pins have moved already.

Hi wouter79,
If, as you claim, there are many of these cracks along the bridge where the bridge pins have been inserted, then it is a very serious defect in your piano.

Good piano tone is dependent on stable termination points on the bridge. Apart from unstable tuning, the sound of the piano may become feeble with buzzes and false beats.

I would insist on a new replacement piano, not a repair.

Let us know...

Very best of luck!

Robert.

Thanks for this feedback. I think this is very important in the process to come.

The small gaps under the pins, is that normal or is that already indication that the two upper pins also moved?

What should be the main argument to ask for a replacement piano instead of a repair (I suppose replacement is much more expensive)? Can I even ask for such replacement, even if the dealer says everything will be fine after repair?

Is there maybe something I should do? Like ordering an official test report on these pins? Can someone here provide such report (maybe based on photos that I can make?)

Also I bought this piano for the sound, can I require a possible replacement with a sound that I like or could I end up with a bad sounding piano in case of replacement?

"If, as you claim, there are many of these cracks along the bridge where the bridge pins have been inserted, then it is a very serious defect in your piano."

I spotted some 6 of these cracks in a quick scan. I probably missed a few. Don't know if that counts as "many" but it's not an isolated single pin that has this issue.

"I'm not a bellyman"... I do not understand this term, please explain?

Bellyman! I don't have a protruding stomach as in downing a six pack every opprotunity.
A belly man is a person in the industry as for their expertise lies in addressing the soundboard,bridges,ribs etc.. Many many rebuilders are versatile and have this expertise as well.

If it is a new piano,you got two viable options. Have them recap the bridges to your satisfaction suppling you with a loaner in the meantime or a permanent replacement. Whether they commission someone in the states or send it back to ? who knows?
Good luck !

Your main concern should be to determine if there is movement caused by pressure on the bridge pin by the string. A crack likely means that there is movement, and I am surprised that the technician who inspected the piano for you (since he mentioned tuning as an issue) didn't search further. Most dealers would keep their stock tuned, and the fact that the instrument had a tuning issue could be a red flag for a technician.

Even if the piano were on a dealers floor for several years, you purchased a new piano and are entitled to have one free of flaws. Nearly every manufacturer covers manufacturing defects, and from the photo it appears that it should be covered. However, if it is simply the cap of the bridge, you would be entitled to have it repaired by the factory or their representative, not necessarily have the piano replaced. Most warranties allow the manufacturer to repair or replace at their discretion.

I would suggest that you hire a certified RPT in your area to inspect the piano for you, if for no other reason than to have a straightforward analysis of the issue. Additionally, if the RPT finds that you have little to worry about, and that a simple fix (such as epoxy) is warranted, you will sleep much easier.

"Most dealers would keep their stock tuned, and the fact that the instrument had a tuning issue could be a red flag for a technician."

It arrived very well tuned (in my ears, I'm not a tuning expert but my ears are good).
The technician inspected the piano within 3 weeks after delivery and then he already indicated the piano was in need for tuning.
The technician (and dealer too) told me that getting un-tuned is not unusual when the piano is moved. I also heard that on this forum.
The technician did tune two notes when he wanted to show me that the harsh notes were due to being not tuned properly. He did not report having problems with tuning these two notes.

But I do think he should have inspected the bridge more in detail and spotted the cracks.



"However, if it is simply the cap of the bridge, you would be entitled to have it repaired by the factory or their representative, not necessarily have the piano replaced. Most warranties allow the manufacturer to repair or replace at their discretion.
I would suggest that you hire a certified RPT in your area to inspect the piano for you, if for no other reason than to have a straightforward analysis of the issue. Additionally, if the RPT finds that you have little to worry about, and that a simple fix (such as epoxy) is warranted, you will sleep much easier."

Thanks, I suppose that this is what the dealer is targeting at. How can you see if this involves only the bridge cap and that the crack will not develop further?

And what about the small gaps below all the pins? Above was indicated that this allows the pins to move a little; would it be necessary to fix ALL pins?

I agree with the need for a good independent report from a technician... I probably have to find another technician.

If the piano was new, an epoxy repair is out of the question.
You do that when the cracks appear 50 years later.Not being aware of exactly the location of all these cracks,it is hard to make an exact assessment how one is gonna remedy this problem. By the way your cracks are in the bridge cap. If the cracks are confined to just the upper upper treble section,than they will most likely recap just that section. Now if they are all over,than recapping the entire bridge cap is alot more labour which will entail destringing,restringing etc. The domino effect comes about. What does one do pinblock wise in this case. Oversized pins when restringing the piano ? If the job gets to extensive than repair will not make sense unless they send it back to the factory. So....now you know a little more. If they do decide to subcontract the job out to a local independent,call me, I'll refer them to my bellyman who will notch those bridge caps better than the original.

Im curious, were those bridges vertically or horizontally laminated ?

Hello again wouter79,
It is very sensible of you to seek a range of opinions.
If you have found at least six cracks around the bridge pins it would seem that there was a problem with the wood used for the bridge capping. It may not have been properly seasoned.

It would be a major job to recap the bridge and your new piano would no longer be "new" after such an extensive repair. The strings would have to be removed and this could affect the stability of the tuning pins.
Liability would seem to lie squarely with the manufacturer and it is dealer who is the manufacturer's agent and he or she must take responsibility.

You bought your piano as a new piano and you are the unfortunate victim in this saga. It is legitimate for you to assert your rights as the purchaser.

All the best!

Robert.

Thanks again for the extensive replies. I am happy to receive this amount of detail feedback from you all.

"If the piano was new, an epoxy repair is out of the question. You do that when the cracks appear 50 years later."

Why is this out of the question?

And, are others here also against using epoxy to fix cracks on a new piano (and why)?

"Not being aware of exactly the location of all these cracks,it is hard to make an exact assessment how one is gonna remedy this problem."

I will shoot some more details and post including their location when my camera is recharged. The crack above is at the B3, right below the central C4.

" By the way your cracks are in the bridge cap."

What is the "bridge cap"? "cap" suggests me a separate part but the bridge looks to me like a solid piece of wood, no laminations? Only on the treble section there seems to be a separate "cap".

"The strings would have to be removed and this could affect the stability of the tuning pins. "

I was not aware of this. So do I understand right that if they have to remove the strings they will harm the integrity of my entire piano?

Now people here seem to have ruled out both recapping and using epoxy. Then is there any repair method left?

"Im curious, were those bridges vertically or horizontally laminated ?"

I can not see any laminations. I will post a larger photo later, maybe you can see or maybe there is no lamination at all?