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Glissando help #1417658
04/15/10 02:58 AM
04/15/10 02:58 AM
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Australia
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Mr Linus Offline OP
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I'm learning a couple of songs that have some big glissando's in them, from the highest keys down to the bottom and then back up again! I have developed quite painful red marks on the back of my fingers just below the nail, and it hurts more every time! In one of the songs there is a decrescendo during the gliss from FF to p.. quite hard!! So I wondering if anyone had any tips for technique?

Thanks, linus.


Music is what feelings sound like.
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Re: Glissando help [Re: Mr Linus] #1417663
04/15/10 03:29 AM
04/15/10 03:29 AM
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mps989 Offline
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I haven't played much glissando, but when I did I played it so that only the nail hits the keys. I can't believe it hurts if it's done right.

Re: Glissando help [Re: mps989] #1417665
04/15/10 03:44 AM
04/15/10 03:44 AM
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Australia
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Mr Linus Offline OP
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Yeah I do try to only make my nails hit, but the keys still skim against my skin..


Music is what feelings sound like.
Re: Glissando help [Re: Mr Linus] #1417713
04/15/10 06:51 AM
04/15/10 06:51 AM
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Mattardo Offline
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Your piano has sharper edges on the keys than some pianos?
If that's so, you might try digging even deeper into the keys when doing the gliss and use an area of your finger that's a little more protected.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mattardo] #1417715
04/15/10 06:58 AM
04/15/10 06:58 AM
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Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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SamOnThePiano Offline
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Use your elbow ;D


Never,ever lose against yourself and always try to be a better person than you ever were yesterday.

Founder of my own dreams, to become a concert pianist.

I am Samuel Cho(click!) and music is what I'm here for.
Re: Glissando help [Re: Mr Linus] #1417738
04/15/10 07:50 AM
04/15/10 07:50 AM
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Albany, NY, USA
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Which hands/fingers are you using? I can't say I'm an expert as I've only recently come across them myself, but I find that angling the finger makes all the difference in the world. If it's painful, try tilting toward the keybed a little more to decrease the resistance.

Check out the left hand of this girl.

Hope that helps.

-Daniel


Currently working on:
-Poulenc Trois pièces
-Liszt Harmonies du Soir
-Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Re: Glissando help [Re: Ridicolosamente] #1417912
04/15/10 11:51 AM
04/15/10 11:51 AM
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mps989 Offline
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What I did to learn how to play glissando was simply trial and error. I tried playing it, if it hurt I'd move my finger a bit up, if i missed too many notes I'd lower it. I think it's harder to play too slow: the notes won't be played, which will lead to you lowering you finger and hurting yourself. That's all I can think of. Plus angling the fingers correctly. I'm no way expert in this, hope it helped even a bit.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mr Linus] #1417927
04/15/10 12:07 PM
04/15/10 12:07 PM
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New York
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Linus
Yeah I do try to only make my nails hit, but the keys still skim against my skin..

Me2.

I gave up on playing glissandos long ago. I just resigned myself to not being able to do them. So I've never played a piece that has any.

(Wait a minute, wait a minute..... smile .....does Rhapsody in Blue have some? I sort of did play that.....)

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mark_C] #1417960
04/15/10 01:09 PM
04/15/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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Use a cigarette pack! Someone I know actully did that..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Glissando help [Re: Pogorelich.] #1417996
04/15/10 02:24 PM
04/15/10 02:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
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New York
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Use a cigarette pack! Someone I know actually did that..

I have a problem: I don't smoke. ha

(How about a cranberry juice bottle? I usually have one of those on me.) smile

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mark_C] #1418005
04/15/10 02:36 PM
04/15/10 02:36 PM
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London, UK
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Julian_ Offline
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I can see it now...

Glissando Etude for two hands and cigarette pack*

* If a cigarette pack is unavailable, a juice bottle may be used instead


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Re: Glissando help [Re: Mark_C] #1418046
04/15/10 03:29 PM
04/15/10 03:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,719
not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Use a cigarette pack! Someone I know actually did that..

I have a problem: I don't smoke. ha

(How about a cranberry juice bottle? I usually have one of those on me.) smile


Hmm. I guess that could work too. Just make sure the bottle is empty an/or closed =P



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Glissando help [Re: Pogorelich.] #1418172
04/15/10 07:46 PM
04/15/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
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Central PA
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PianonaiP Offline
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Use a cigarette pack! Someone I know actually did that..

I have a problem: I don't smoke. ha

(How about a cranberry juice bottle? I usually have one of those on me.) smile


Hmm. I guess that could work too. Just make sure the bottle is empty an/or closed =P


And not made of glass, ouch.

Re: Glissando help [Re: PianonaiP] #1418201
04/15/10 09:09 PM
04/15/10 09:09 PM
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Mezzo Guitar Offline
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I was never a fan of glissandi. I always figured they were discriminatory against all key signatures except C major, A minor, G flat major and E flat minor. I think the best way to play a "glissando" is a very fast scale, which is very much possible to do (just look at the finale for Chopin's Ballade Op. 23!)

Just my two cents, though. I feel so old-fashioned, even though I'm only 19. Feel free to use glissandi as long as they don't injure you.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mezzo Guitar] #1418208
04/15/10 09:19 PM
04/15/10 09:19 PM
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Posts: 22,142
New York
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted by Mezzo Guitar
.....I think the best way to play a "glissando" is a very fast scale, which is very much possible to do (just look at the finale for Chopin's Ballade Op. 23!)....

Maybe for you!! ha

Re: Glissando help [Re: Julian_] #1418242
04/15/10 10:51 PM
04/15/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Albany, NY, USA
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Originally Posted by SlatterFan
Glissando Etude for two hands and cigarette pack*
Well, no cigarette pack, but you could try out a piece like this by Kurtág. Closest thing I know to a "glissando etude."

-Daniel


Currently working on:
-Poulenc Trois pièces
-Liszt Harmonies du Soir
-Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Re: Glissando help [Re: Ridicolosamente] #1418246
04/15/10 11:00 PM
04/15/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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Organists never have to worry about this. Except...

The ending of Middelschulte's Perpetuum Mobile for pedals alone. At the close the left hand executes a glissando all the way up the keyboard. It is done with the palm of the hand. And I must say, by far the easiest passage!


Jason
Re: Glissando help [Re: Ridicolosamente] #1418248
04/15/10 11:17 PM
04/15/10 11:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
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New York
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Originally Posted by Ridicolosamente
........by Kurtág. Closest thing I know to a "glissando etude."

As you may have noticed, there is considerable interest in the fact that the pianist is indicated as "Sarah Silverman."

Who knows, maybe that's really her name.
But it ain't "her." smile
Whoever she is, she's very very good.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mr Linus] #1418249
04/15/10 11:28 PM
04/15/10 11:28 PM
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Ann Arbor, MI
jazzyprof Offline
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Have you tried...an orange?




"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
Re: Glissando help [Re: jazzyprof] #1418251
04/15/10 11:32 PM
04/15/10 11:32 PM
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New York
Mark_C Offline
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.....how come nobody yet has suggested.....

TONGUE?

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mark_C] #1418260
04/16/10 12:01 AM
04/16/10 12:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
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Canada
Frozenicicles Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Ridicolosamente
........by Kurtág. Closest thing I know to a "glissando etude."

As you may have noticed, there is considerable interest in the fact that the pianist is indicated as "Sarah Silverman."

Who knows, maybe that's really her name.
But it ain't "her." smile
Whoever she is, she's very very good.

Youtube comments say that it's a pianist named Einav Yarden. I did a quick search and it seems correct. Whoever she is, she probably has calluses on the back of her hands.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Frozenicicles] #1418269
04/16/10 12:55 AM
04/16/10 12:55 AM
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Here is a glissando etude:


Semipro Tech
Re: Glissando help [Re: BDB] #1418284
04/16/10 02:16 AM
04/16/10 02:16 AM
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I have a really old piano with ivory covered keys and because of this you have to be really careful when doing glissandos or you will tear your thumb up.

My technique for doing them is to keep the thumbnail at about a 45 degree angle with the keys and do it quickly so that when the nail collides with each key there is enough force to sound each key. Glissandos should never be played slowly anyways.

I have tried glissando on other pianos that aren't ancient history and they are usually a lot easier to perform.

As far as a glissando from low to high where you need the fingers rather than the thumb; I have never needed to do those so you are on your own.

Finally, doing a decresendo with a glissando; I would rely heavily on the damping pedal for this. Still would be tricky though. Or just do the glissando at FF and then play p afterwards. It doesn't have to be played exactly as it's written.

Re: Glissando help [Re: SpencerF] #1418387
04/16/10 08:57 AM
04/16/10 08:57 AM
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Melbourne Australia
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StephenB Offline
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I've recently started playing pieces with glissandi. I haven't found them too uncomfortable. I do tend to use the nail but sometimes it overlaps to skin too. Occasionally I have a mishap and it hurts. Ravel has a lot of glissandi as his pieces are so 'watery'.
The ones that really have me stumped are his glissandi in 3rds and 4ths in Alborado del Gracioso. They ARE painful, not least because the hand seems to have to distort in a strange way to encompass them. I decided against working on this piece for that reason, which is a pity because it leaves me one short of playing all of Miroirs. My piano teacher, who is a professional performer has the same misgivings and also won't learn this piece.
I'm not sure I have any useful advice except perhaps that hesitation and tentativeness risk increasing the pain.
I try to just go for it and close my mind to the discomfort. Of course you can't do that if you are losing skin though.

Re: Glissando help [Re: StephenB] #1418390
04/16/10 08:59 AM
04/16/10 08:59 AM
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Glissandi on black keys are kind of tricky.. There's one in Ondine that is almost impossible especially with a crappy piano.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Glissando help [Re: Pogorelich.] #1418399
04/16/10 09:14 AM
04/16/10 09:14 AM
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Chicago, IL USA
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One pianist (Leonid Hambro?) used to take his wallet out of his pocket and put it on the piano, and use it for the gliss, but I can't remember the piece (some energetic person might do a search of the PianoWorld archives for this).

Nicholas Slonimsky used to play that etude with an orange long before Lang Lang did.


There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians
Re: Glissando help [Re: BDB] #1418436
04/16/10 10:21 AM
04/16/10 10:21 AM
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Albany, NY, USA
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Originally Posted by BDB
Here is a glissando etude:
That was fun!


Currently working on:
-Poulenc Trois pièces
-Liszt Harmonies du Soir
-Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Re: Glissando help [Re: Palindrome] #1418491
04/16/10 12:29 PM
04/16/10 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Palindrome
One pianist (Leonid Hambro?)....

yes

Quote
.....used to take his wallet out of his pocket and put it on the piano, and use it for the gliss, but I can't remember the piece.....

Bartok Sonata for 2 Pianos & Percussion

I didn't know it, but you gave all the info to find it immediately via google search, in a book by Charles Rosen.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Pogorelich.] #1418650
04/16/10 05:27 PM
04/16/10 05:27 PM
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Melbourne Australia
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Glissandi on black keys are kind of tricky.. There's one in Ondine that is almost impossible especially with a crappy piano.


I never quite mastered Ondine to my satisfaction but I was OK with the glissandi at least.
As you say, a reasonable piano can make a big difference.
Trouble with such pieces is that they decline quickly if you stop practicing them. I sacrificed Ondine for Une Barque eventually, which I found more manageable (and plan to present for my licentiate next year). That has a couple of very hasty back and forth glissandi in too, though some people prefer to play scales instead. I found scales too hard there.

Re: Glissando help [Re: Mark_C] #1418667
04/16/10 05:54 PM
04/16/10 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
.....how come nobody yet has suggested.....

TONGUE?


Well I suppose there is no accounting for musical taste smile.

Seriously though, I would not do that. You never know who's had their fingers on the notes!

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