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Yep it sure would. I guess you got my "point" huh?

This just in. Our Sr. Tech advised me that he has it on good authority that Chumley from the new show "Pawn Stars" is now working on pianos that they buy at the Pawn Shop. Awesome! DIYer's Unite!

Keep in mind that the hammer technique necessary to maintain tight pins is difficult to master. Loose pins caused by a DIYer with poor technique would not be covered under warranty.

the perfect apparel for the job...

Hi Steve,

I think you are one who loves a good debate or argument. I’ve never been good at argument and debate, but we all might learn something here. Exactly what is your definition of a DIYer? As a general rule, (and I’m sure someone will be quick to correct me if I’m wrong) the piano technician’s trade is not a licensed or regulated profession or trade like many other professions or trades (Dr’s, Lawyers, Accountants, HVAC contractors, Electricians, plumbers, etc….). The Piano Technicians Guild recognizes technicians who pass an exam and allows them to be members of the technicians guild as registered piano technicians. This is not, however, a requirement to practice as a piano technician. There are probably thousands of freelance individual piano technicians who work as fulltime piano technicians and are not registered with the Piano Technicians Guild for whatever reason. Are these individuals DIYer’s?

I tried to find an older thread I remember reading here a few years ago where an individual bought a new Kawai grand (RX 2 or RX 3) from an authorized dealer and the piano tech at the dealer had driven the tuning pins all the way into the tuning block so the bottom of the string coils were touching the plate trying to tune it. Was this store tech a DIYer? If my memory serves me correctly, the dealer and Kawai didn’t want to do anything under the factory warranty; and, I think Kawai Don got involved and got the situation resolved for the customer with the installation of new bass tuning pins the next size larger so it could be properly tuned.

Just because someone identifies themselves as a DIYer, doesn’t mean they are stupid or ignorant or have no skills or abilities. And, chances are, a person who purchases a new piano that is under warranty would be aware of such things as you mentioned. I wonder how many DIY tuners have actually ruined a pin block as you mentioned?

So, I wouldn’t be too hard on the DIY tuners who are members of this forum. Besides, I’ve been to several piano stores where the overpriced pianos were as out of tune as they could be and I thought it was a disgrace for them to try to sell an instrument in that condition. Fact is, a DIY tuning is probably better than no tuning at all. Of course, I would imagine that would depend on the skill level of the DIYer, right?

Oh, and there is a lot less bleeding involved in tuning you own piano, unless you get the voicing needle out!

Take care!

Rick

I've actually found most of the pro techs to be very helpful. They will occasionally go for eachother's jugular, but it's fun to watch. When a DIYer floats by in their forum, well, it's like chum and the feeding frenzy begins.

I knew this was going to be an interesting topic as soon as I saw the "title". As Rickster already knows, I am another DIYer. I, too, have been hung out to dry for even thinking about tuning my own piano let alone actually doing it.

I have a POS spinet piano that was 2 1/2 full notes low when I got her and hadn't been tuned in almost a half a century. The unisons were out, the octaves were out - but for me it was better than nothing. I had an acoustic piano. I spent probably 200 hours getting her back into playable shape and at A=440. Sure, it took me longer than would an experienced technician, but here in Hooterville there isn't a technician for miles and at $100 an hour - exactly how many hours would it take for me to spend well over what the piano was worth (maybe $100).

Perhaps if I lived in an area with access to the real world, and paid thousands for my piano I would have tought twice about my abilities and the damage that could I could cause. But that is not the case. So cut us self-tuner some slack.

Woody Woodruff

Woody, I’ve heard recordings of your piano and it sounds splendid.

There are certainly valid reasons that someone with no knowledge about tuning a piano should attempt to tune or service their own piano. What irks me about the tone of this thread is the insinuation by a few that anyone who does attempt to learn to tune their own piano (a DIYer) is a fool and an idiot. What’s the quote I’ve read here… “a person who represents themselves in court has a fool for a lawyer”, hence, DIY tuner = fool. Or a DIY tuner will damage the pin block and void the manufacturers warranty, hence, a DIY tuner = idiot.

Okay, I work 10 hour days and I’m getting tired by now… glad I don’t need to tune my own piano this evening!

Take care,

Rick

Rickster and Woody-Woodruff,

Well said

Hi Rickster!

All poking at each other aside, you do bring up some very valid points. It's a shame you have been in piano stores where the instruments weren't well tuned/prepped, etc. Many dealers simply hire the least expensive tuner they can find - its a matter of economics and sometimes, just a mindset that they don't think shoppers can tell the difference (big mistake). It's an unfortunate fact of life in this business.

You also address regulation of the piano service industry. At the risk of starting a real bare knuckles brawl with many here, we actually think that could (emphasis on "could") be a good thing. The last survey we received from the Central Florida Chapter of the PTG regarding this had many interesting answers. Basically it boiled down to this: The majority of responders don't want regulation because it would require them to be held to a certain standard in their profession (dare I say if you consider yourself a "Professional", you might want to actually be one?). Also, the majority of responders had not made even the effort of going through the RPT testing, nor do they ever intend to, nor had they even considered taking the time to investigate the possibility. They would have to make an effort to change their mindset, shell out a few bucks, be held accountable. But I digress, hold on a sec, I've got to climb down off this soapbox. You ask if pianos technicians because they are not RPT's are considered DIYer's. Not all...but there are many lurking in the pack. Some are, some aren't.

You mention DIYer's being considered stupid. I don't think so. You tune your piano, I don't think you're stupid. But you also have respect for your instrument and what you are comfortable doing and what your skills are. You have apparently weighed the pro's & con's. Most DIYer's (in many areas) actually are exercising their brain matter - wow! - what a concept, huh? However, many also get in way over their heads and yes, Steve is right, a warranty can be voided. We've seen it happen over the years sadly enough, and on more than one occasion (have also seen it happen when service was performed by a self professed "professional"). But, stupid? No. Maybe a bit naive if one doesn't approach with caution.

Not really intending to be hard on DIYer's, myself, but they really should consider they are asking for a technician to give freely of information, skills and expertise he/she has worked many years to obtain and perfect. All technicians aren't snarling canines just waiting to be let off the leash to chase another DIYer. They're protective of their wallets and their knowledge. Nothing wrong with that.

Wow, Woody!! There's still a "Hooterville"?!?

Regardless of whether is IS a DIYer or a pro...if they cause damage to the piano it isn't covered by the warranty.

An uneven pressure on the tuning hammer that, over time, "ovals'" the hole and thus loosens the pin is "abuse", and not covered under the warranty. The same would be true of other types of abuse such as the over-voicing of hammers, to the improper regulation of the action. (I have see the damages I descibe.)

The less experience one has the more likely it is that they will do damage.

I've learned to tune my own piano and I tune for a few other friends. I don't claim to be a professional piano tuner, I am definitely a DIY'er, but the last time I posed a technical question on the Technicians forum I got such snide answers that I had to respond that in my opinion they were not being at all helpful by their tone. To that someone responded accusing me of not being helpful. I replied that my piano knowledge in other areas is quite good, but in piano repair is not so good, but I always replied in a helpful manner if someone posed a question that I knew something about.

To learn how to tune, I bought a mail order tuner kit that came with a book and a set of basic tools. I don't even remember the name of the book or auther, but he did a very good job of puting together enough information to get me started. I practiced a lot to get the hammer technique and it did take a while, but it's only just a little harder than brain surgery. I DIY'er is, in my experience, someone who probably works more carefully than a seasoned pro. They usually go very slow and pause to think about things before they act. Some may be a little more bombastic and rush ahead without researching the proper course of action, but most are mechanically inclined and well able to learn the techniques involved in piano tuning. My feeling is that they probably make far fewer mistakes than the pro tuners think they do. Plus, there's just no excuse for the excessive attitude at times.

Hooters??!! Where??

Beware, Neil. Piano tuners think they are neurosurgeons.

For DIY starters.

It's about learning as much as you can to have a good knowledge of the tasks you are about to take. Lay out a good plan before action. Have some good tools ready. When you actually put your hands on the work, just do a very small amount at a time so if you make any error, it's no major damage or something irreversible. Learn more as you go along.

There are many youtube videos about tuning. Oh, even seasoned pro tuners have contrasting ideas of how tuning should be done.
https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...Octave%20Tuning%20Video.html#Post1414789

Like for everything else, everyone has to make that first learning step.

If you have an expensive piano, it's not a good idea to practice tuning on your nice piano. See if you have any friend with a clunker, ask your friend to let you practice on it.


*EDIT* what I meant by small amount is if you have one note (3 strings) out of unison, tune just those 3 strings until you have a unison. Then stop. Wait for 2 weeks, if you still have the unison on that note, you can go on to tune a few other notes. If you don't have the unison, you didn't do it correctly.

I have ONE string that goes sour before everything else. It's the F two octaves below middle C. That key has one string that snapped when a go-getter was going to bring my 1932 grand up to concert pitch (which you cannot do--it needs to be tuned to itself!) All the strings are from the 1930s except that replacement string. It goes sour first. Couldn't I get a wrench and just fix that string when it starts going down in pitch? Would that have potential for a lot of damage?

That depends on HOW you do it. But a wrench is not the right tool; it cannot provide precise movements (both clockwise and counter clockwise) to tune. At least get a real tuning lever/hammer with the correct tip size for the pins on your piano.

That F might be at the bass/tenor break. There may be an ubrupt change in scale tension at that point. The F2 can sound a little tubby and nasal and is very sensitive to tuning.

The major harm in getting a tuning hammer (please, no wrenches) and tweeking is that you might break a string. Not the worse thing in the world. Then you'll only have two strings to worry about. I have personal experience.

" All technicians aren't snarling canines just waiting to be let off the leash to chase another DIYer. They're protective of their wallets and their knowledge. Nothing wrong with that. Nancy"


I understand people wanting to protect their wallets. About 15 years ago, I knew a guy who installed the huge 10 - 15 ft. satellite antennas for extra income. He quoted 2 prices; $500 or if you wanted to help it would be $1,500.