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Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
#1409868 04/03/10 04:57 AM
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Hi,
I have a CLP 170 and am considering upgrading to a CLP 370. But there are a lot of infos I could not find on the internet, so once again I am asking here. Here are my yet unanswered questions:

- I am sure, that the built in synthesizer is much better in the CLP 370 than the CLP 170. But how does it compare to using a state of the art external synthesizer like synthogy ivory (like I currently use with my CLP 170)?

- How about differences in the GH3 keyboard? I know that it is Natural Wood on the CLP 370 and simple plastic on the CLP 170, but are there any differences in sensors (better velocity recognition, etc.) or even another touch?

- How do the built in speakers compare? I am not really satisfied with the CLP 170 speakers and using a combination of the built in speakers with external speakers right now. I read that the CLP 370 should be better than the ones in the CLP 340 and below, but do they really sound that good?

I am thankful for any information I can get, so don't hold back and just write what is on your mind concerning the topic and or the above questions. Once again, thanks in advance. I really appreciate these forums.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
3DWizard #1409906 04/03/10 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DWizard
- I am sure, that the built in synthesizer is much better in the CLP 370 than the CLP 170. But how does it compare to using a state of the art external synthesizer like synthogy ivory (like I currently use with my CLP 170)?

I believe the CLP-370 uses the same basic sample set as the CLP-330, but has four velocity layers rather than three. I see in the specifications that the "No. of Sampling Banks" for the 370 is 50, and for the 330 is 30 - I believe this is the number of actual samples stretched over the 88 note range (the DPBSD revealed 30 stretch zones for the 330). The CLP-330 performed rather poorly in the DPBSD test, with noticeably short samples, audible stretching and looping, etc.

My advice to everyone, particularly those looking to upgrade, is to not buy anything from Yamaha that includes the acronym "AWM" in the specs. And their AWM voices will likely be a major disappointment to anyone accustomed to quality PC based pianos.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
dewster #1409914 04/03/10 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
My advice to everyone, particularly those looking to upgrade, is to not buy anything from Yamaha that includes the acronym "AWM" in the specs. And their AWM voices will likely be a major disappointment to anyone accustomed to quality PC based pianos.
That's a rather silly argument. Your likes and dislikes seem to be based on equipment readings and measurements. Others may instead prefer to make judgments based on what they hear. Many people here are quite satisfied with pianos not nearly as good as the 370.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
MacMacMac #1409930 04/03/10 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Your likes and dislikes seem to be based on equipment readings and measurements.

My likes and dislikes are based on what I hear in the DPBSD MP3 file. The stretching and looping are particularly audible in the 330, and the sympathetic resonance sounds poorly done. Have you even listened to the 330 MP3?

What is it about technical testing performed on a highly technical product that particularly galls you?

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Many people here are quite satisfied with pianos not nearly as good as the 370.

The OP uses PC based pianos, and specifically requested a comparison to them. Who among us has found a DP (other than the V-Piano and its attendant midrange issues) with sound on par with good PC pianos?

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
dewster #1409948 04/03/10 09:14 AM
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My opinion, is that if you are actually a player/musician, like Mac, Dr. Popper, Lawrence, Steve, myself, or several others who play, rather than base their likes and dislikes by toying with a PC and depending on squiggly lines to make their decisions for them (yes, there are actually people who do that very thing!)...it would be in your best interest to play an instrument before you buy, or failing that, rely on the more learned reviews of the other experienced musicians previously mentioned.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
dewster #1409951 04/03/10 09:28 AM
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dewster, maybe Yamaha CLP is not perfect, but the question is - what is better for the same price?

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1409962 04/03/10 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bkmz
dewster, maybe Yamaha CLP is not perfect, but the question is - what is better for the same price?

The CLP330 price is rather unknown due to Yamaha's proprietary distribution channels for the Clavinova line. Did you get a price quote 3DWizard?

bkmz, what DP are you playing these days?

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
dewster #1410036 04/03/10 11:47 AM
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Quote
The CLP330 price is rather unknown due to Yamaha's proprietary distribution channels for the Clavinova line. Did you get a price quote 3DWizard?

Yep, prices over here in Europe are 1600 EUR for the CLP 330 and 2250 EUR for the CLP 370. But this is not really the point for me. I am especially interested in how the CLP 3** series compares to the CLP 170 (especially in terms of the questions I raised above).
As the CLP 370 seems to be the first model in the CLP 3** series with special speakers and a natural wood keyboard I took that one as a reference point. But feel free to compare the Yamaha CLP 170 to whatever you want, but I am pretty certain that in case I upgrade I will stick with Yamaha, because the GH3 is the keyboard I liked most when testing things at a shop.
The problem with testing though is, that it is not that easy for me to get to a shop that has the CLP 370 or similar to get a look at. So I am asking the people on this forums. Hope you understand.
When I had the opportunity to check out some e-pianos (that was before I bought the CLP 170) my focus was mainly on the keyboard. For the sound I thought I would take an external synthesizer anyway and I didn't really test the speakers, pretty much all of the time used headphones. The external synthesizer solution is still fine for me, but if I would pay 2250 EUR for an e-piano I would like to have a good piano sound on it, so that I can play it without connecting my notebook.

Thanks again, and hopefully someone can bring in some more useful information for me.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
3DWizard #1410054 04/03/10 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DWizard
[quote]As the CLP 370 seems to be the first model in the CLP 3** series with special speakers and a natural wood keyboard I took that one as a reference point.


The CLP-370 does not have the iAFC speakers that the 380 has. The 370 does appear to have a speaker box, but is that what you mean by "special"? iAFC sounds amazing, but then again I can't compare it to a 370 (without iAFC) as I haven't heard a 370 live.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
dewster #1410056 04/03/10 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
bkmz, what DP are you playing these days?


I sold my 330, and still thinking what to buy. Most likely it will be HP307. But for me it's very hard to choose between CLP370 and HP307. I will miss warm Yamaha tone and GH3 touch.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1410059 04/03/10 12:37 PM
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CLP370 has 4 dynamic layers, while CLP170 has only 3. I think it's quite important.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
3DWizard #1410085 04/03/10 01:04 PM
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Quote
- I am sure, that the built in synthesizer is much better in the CLP 370 than the CLP 170. But how does it compare to using a state of the art external synthesizer like synthogy ivory (like I currently use with my CLP 170)?


They don't compare. Good software instruments are in an entire different class. Use them when sound is much more important then convenience.

3 vs. 4 layers is an incremental improvement. You have to listen for it. I have the 4-layer system on my P155. It does make "fff" more real sounding. But software vs much improved over any of Yamaha's internal sonds

Quote
- How about differences in the GH3 keyboard? I know that it is Natural Wood on the CLP 370 and simple plastic on the CLP 170, but are there any differences in sensors (better velocity recognition, etc.) or even another touch?


The GH3 adds a third key height sensor that controls the damper. Notes can be repeated without damping with GH3. This simulates most grands but note that most acoustic uprights lack this feature.

As for wood keys. They are all plastic, some are hollow and the "wood" kays have this hollow space filled with wood. The wood might add mass or damped feel to the keys but the action is what matters and it's the same, wood or air filled

Quote
- How do the built in speakers compare?


No built-in speaker is as good as what you can do with good external monitors. But good external monitors are not cheap. If you go with software instruments you will likey be using monitors


I'd say if you llike the feel of the key action on your current DP keep it and try using a computer for sound. You may need to upgrade youe seakers t take advantage of the improved sound. You 'd need a good computer, set up for audio work and likely an external audio/MIDI interface box plug, of course the software. But even if you have to buy a brand new MacBook Pro to dedicate for music it is still less expensive than a new high end DP and of couse will have much better sound.

Go with the upgrade to the DP if you either don't like using computers or don't like the key action in the current DP.

But also look at other brands. Right now Roland has, I think the best piano sounds with their new "supernatural" technology inside the RD700 upgrade and HP console. On the Yamaha side their best sound is now in the CP1/CP5 not the Clavinova. People say good things abot the latest Kawai. I like their key action but not yet their top-lin sound. There are a lot of options other than a top-line Calinova.

Last edited by ChrisA; 04/03/10 05:29 PM.
Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1410093 04/03/10 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bkmz
dewster, maybe Yamaha CLP is not perfect, but the question is - what is better for the same price?


Easy: A $499 Casio playing through software running on a computer.

Or if you prefer a console style, wood-look piano with better key action, then A YDP160 playing through software running on a computer.

Or if you hate computers a Yamaha CP5.




Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
MacMacMac #1410095 04/03/10 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by dewster
My advice to everyone, particularly those looking to upgrade, is to not buy anything from Yamaha that includes the acronym "AWM" in the specs. And their AWM voices will likely be a major disappointment to anyone accustomed to quality PC based pianos.
That's a rather silly argument. Your likes and dislikes seem to be based on equipment readings and measurements. Others may instead prefer to make judgments based on what they hear. Many people here are quite satisfied with pianos not nearly as good as the 370.



I think what his tests and diagrams have done is taught me what to listen for. Of course I'd never buy a piano based on those graphs, not tell other to buy based on them but I did not know before what to listen for.

Now I really can hear note stretching. I hear it in music when the melody is based on a scale and the scale just happens to go through a note stretch transition.

Listening is hard. Un-eduacated consumers will be happy with cheap boom-box stereos and $5 iPod earbud headphones. As your listening skill improve you tend yo move up to better gear. I think Dewsters graphs are a help to those wanting to improve their listening skill.

Yes "Many people here are quite satisfied with pianos not nearly as good as the 370". I like my P155. It has sound very much like the CLP370. I really do think it is good enough for most uses but there is a HUGE potential for improvement. I know there is because I can compare it with some software and hear in a second. But mostly I don't. I just plug the headphone into the P155 and far from perfect is good enough 90% of the time

Last edited by ChrisA; 04/03/10 01:27 PM.
Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
ChrisA #1410103 04/03/10 01:39 PM
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@NikkiPiano: The speaker box is what I meant with special. One more thing: The CLP 170 has iAFC, too. I like it, but I guess the technology has been upgraded for the CLP 380. But this e-piano is way out of my pricerange.

@bkmz: I don't really like the piano sound of the CLP 170 and the one in the CLP 370 would have to be much better to replace the software on notebook solution for me, so I guess I will stick with the external synthesizer solution.

@ChrisA: Thanks again for your very detailed post. You wrote about the third key height sensor the GH3 keyboard adds. The CLP 170 has a GH3 keyboard, too. I was just wondering even if both keyboards are have GH3 mechanic, are there still differences? (for example is the third sensor only built in newer models or also in the old CLP 170)

Thank you all for your great feedback so far!

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
ChrisA #1410149 04/03/10 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisA
Originally Posted by bkmz
dewster, maybe Yamaha CLP is not perfect, but the question is - what is better for the same price?


Easy: A $499 Casio playing through software running on a computer.
Or if you prefer a console style, wood-look piano with better key action, then A YDP160 playing through software running on a computer.
Or if you hate computers a Yamaha CP5.


Casio keyboard is terrible.

With software samples there is a feeling that samples are "disconnected" from piano and keyboard. I tried some with CLP330 but always returned to the internal sound.
And I don't want to mess with cables too.

Similar with an external speakers: sound is more clear and with more low end, but it becomes dead and artificial. I like how it sounds from internal speakers more. It somehow feels like I'm playing on a real piano.

So what I need is a console piano with an internal speakers, three fixed pedals, and decent internal sound.

And about CP5 - it is a new model, I hope CLP400 will have the same sound generator inside.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1410151 04/03/10 03:48 PM
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3DWizard: CLP170 and CLP370 have different samples.
Some recording technology called "pure CF sampling" is introduced in CLP3xx.

Anyway, if I would you, I would wait for CLP400 series.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1410164 04/03/10 04:28 PM
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http://yamahaclavinova.com/interview/develop03.html
Quote
We carefully selected speakers suited to the sound source. According to the shape of the model, we adjusted the positions and angles of the speakers to seek the optimum speaker for each model. While actually building speakers into test products and repeatedly exchanging views with the acoustic team, we used sound absorbing materials or opened holes inside and performed other detailed adjustments. There are also models with speakers that have themselves been customized. In this way, we refined Pure CF Sampling for each model not only as a sound source, but as a musical instrument called the Clavinova.


This sounds true to me.
I think that explains why many people (and I) prefer internal speakers sound.

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
bkmz #1410178 04/03/10 04:53 PM
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Hey guys I have a question about recording songs played on these pianos. I'm looking at the CLP 330 and it has AUX out so I assume I can plug that into something to record my playing. But with the 320 there is no AUX out, just MIDI & headphones. How do I record it? Do I have to take the headphone out and run that into a line-in? Is the quality good? What if I use MIDI to a computer? Is there an easy way to record an mp3 of my playing?

I'm trying to decide if the 330 is worth the extra money. I know the keys are better (GH3) and the amplifier is a bit better, but I see 320 used that are good deals but since the 330 is newer I don't find it used.

Thanks

Re: Yamaha CLP 370 vs CLP 170 (or similar)
3DWizard #1410194 04/03/10 05:19 PM
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The only difference in the keyboard is the fake ivory and the wood, I think.
But the wood doesn't really help, since the whole key is not wooden, it just has a layer on each side of the key...

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