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Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? #1405691
03/28/10 05:24 PM
03/28/10 05:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 199
Michigan
Carol I. Offline OP
Full Member
Carol I.  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 199
Michigan
Yesterday we were piano shopping at a Steinway dealer (the subject of another thread), and I asked the store's owner about installing a Dampp-Chaser. He said he wouldn't recommend putting a Dampp-Chaser on a Steinway because, in his words, they do more harm than good and in particular can cause soundboard cracks.

When I replied that we have Dampp-Chasers on our two European pianos, he said that was a different matter, because European piano manufacturers don't dry out their wood as thoroughly as Steinway does, so Dampp-Chasers can be useful on European pianos.

I'd never heard this before and am wondering whether others agree or disagree.

Carol


Steinway D, No. 528716 (formerly CD-888)
Estonia L190, No. 6552
Blüthner B, No. 150915
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-380
Roland Digital Harpsichord C-30
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Carol I.] #1405737
03/28/10 06:30 PM
03/28/10 06:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Disagree. You were fed a load of rubbish. My S&S B has a D-C; absolutely no problems. In fact quite the contrary. It is far more stable than it would be without it.

Last edited by Horowitzian; 03/28/10 06:31 PM.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Horowitzian] #1405747
03/28/10 06:43 PM
03/28/10 06:43 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,455
Richfield Springs, New York
E
Eric Gloo Offline
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Posts: 1,455
Richfield Springs, New York
The Steinway dealer you visited contradicted what Steinway & Sons says about the Dampp-Chaser systems.

From the Dampp-Chaser website:

Steinway & Sons

"The installation of a Dampp-Chaser Humidity Control System can, in our opinion, provide a degree of climate control for the piano which may not otherwise be attainable."


Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Eric Gloo] #1405759
03/28/10 06:56 PM
03/28/10 06:56 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,758
Toronto
A
AJF Offline
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AJF  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,758
Toronto
More dealer lies. And btw, companies like Bosendorfer, Fazioli and Shigeru Kawai dry their soundboards longer than Steinway.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: AJF] #1405762
03/28/10 07:01 PM
03/28/10 07:01 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,979
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
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Posts: 10,979
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Also disagree.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Steve Cohen] #1405787
03/28/10 07:43 PM
03/28/10 07:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,099
Glendale, Ca.
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Dave Ferris  Offline
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,


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D # 571692
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Dave Ferris] #1405790
03/28/10 07:52 PM
03/28/10 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
F
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
You know, if stuff like this weren't so pathetically sad, it would be funny.


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Furtwangler] #1405817
03/28/10 08:26 PM
03/28/10 08:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 448
Richmond Hill, Ontario
J
JD Grandt Offline
Full Member
JD Grandt  Offline
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J

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 448
Richmond Hill, Ontario
It is nothing short of a marketing miracle that Steinway manages with these types of representatives.

DampChasers? For a home, I've given up on them and promote Venta-Airwashers. Cheaper, far less maintenance and they serve the entire space (ie: humidify for sake of the piano, other furniture and humans living nearby as well as clean the air at the same time!!!) They have a 10 year warranty are neither warm-air (bacteria agents) or cool mist (agents of white dust).


John
J.D. Grandt Piano Supply Company
www.jdgrandt.com
https://www.facebook.com/JDGrandtPianoSupplyCo
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Steingraeber & Söhne (Canada)
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Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: JD Grandt] #1405829
03/28/10 08:48 PM
03/28/10 08:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by newgeneration
It is nothing short of a marketing miracle that Steinway manages with these types of representatives.

DampChasers? For a home, I've given up on them and promote Venta-Airwashers. Cheaper, far less maintenance and they serve the entire space (ie: humidify for sake of the piano, other furniture and humans living nearby as well as clean the air at the same time!!!) They have a 10 year warranty are neither warm-air (bacteria agents) or cool mist (agents of white dust).

I've considered getting one of those, but honestly, the D-C works fine as long as you keep the piano closed when not in use. I have a smaller evaporative unit that works as a supplement if it's particularly dry. Where I am, too much humidity is rarely a problem except in the summer when it rains a lot more. Then the D-C really earns it's keep thanks to it's dehumidifying function.

If you are getting a room or larger unit, you definitely want an evaporative type rather than a model (such as the ultrasonic humidifiers) that merely atomizes the water into fine droplets. The wick of an evaporative type needs maintenance, but it catches the white dust (dissolved minerals in the water) as well as anything else that would otherwise end up in the air.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Carol I.] #1405985
03/29/10 03:22 AM
03/29/10 03:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
B
beethoven986 Offline
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beethoven986  Offline
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B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
As the others have said, this is pure BS. The school I currently attend has invested in full Dampp-Chaser systems for every single piano in its inventory... Steinways and all. Find a different Steinway dealer, or switch sales reps.

Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: beethoven986] #1406024
03/29/10 05:20 AM
03/29/10 05:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Marty in Minnesota  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
All of my S&S pianos have D-C systems. They are in different climates and I notice an increase in tuning stability and consistant action regulation due to the D-C. For me, it is a obvious choice.

Last week, I received delivery of a new addition to the family. It is an S&S, Hamburg-D. Upon initial set-up, a D-C system was installed. Even with the transport, it held a very decent tuning during it's voyage. It will be tuned "in-home" for the first time this Friday.

BTW - I always keep the pianos closed unless I am actually at the keyboard. I do believe this little step helps.


Marty in Minnesota
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Marty in Minnesota] #1406047
03/29/10 07:31 AM
03/29/10 07:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Columbia County, New York
N
nylawbiz Offline
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nylawbiz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Columbia County, New York
Which would be better: a whole house humidification system or a Dampp-Chaser?

Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Marty in Minnesota] #1406121
03/29/10 10:13 AM
03/29/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by Marty in Minnesota
All of my S&S pianos have D-C systems. They are in different climates and I notice an increase in tuning stability and consistant action regulation due to the D-C. For me, it is a obvious choice.

Last week, I received delivery of a new addition to the family. It is an S&S, Hamburg-D. Upon initial set-up, a D-C system was installed. Even with the transport, it held a very decent tuning during it's voyage. It will be tuned "in-home" for the first time this Friday.

BTW - I always keep the pianos closed unless I am actually at the keyboard. I do believe this little step helps.


OT — Congrats on the new addition to the family, Marty!


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Horowitzian] #1406125
03/29/10 10:22 AM
03/29/10 10:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
D
Dale Fox Offline
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Dale Fox  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
One has to wonder what the motivation is for such a gross misrepresentation that this salesman gave.

In any case, I put at least a partial system on every piano that leaves the shop. We don't have the extreme dry winters here in Sacramento but rather battle with high humidity during winter and an ocean breeze that cools things down at night during the Summer and causes excess humidity swings on a daily basis. DC systems work great on Steinway and any other piano you can think of. Even better if matched with a string cover.


Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Horowitzian] #1406128
03/29/10 10:25 AM
03/29/10 10:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 944
shirley, MA
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member
jim ialeggio  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 944
shirley, MA
Newgeneration..

could you discuss the venta-airwashers a little more...I'm intriuged.

In many homes, the room with the piano is not separated or closed off to the rest of the house. In this case, have you found that this humidifier's effect on the immediate area of the piano becomes diluted, or not?

What is your experience with the noise level, as well as experience with the sales pitch bit about bacteria and mold? I'm not familiar with the product, but would like to see if its worth considering.

Jim Ialeggio



Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Dale Fox] #1406156
03/29/10 11:02 AM
03/29/10 11:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
A
adamp88 Offline
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adamp88  Offline
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A

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by Dale Fox
One has to wonder what the motivation is for such a gross misrepresentation that this salesman gave.


I would assume ignorance. It's unfortunately very common in the sales world (at large), though I've been relatively lucky to have talked with knowledgeable and straightforward salesmen in my times in piano shops.

Last edited by adamp88; 03/29/10 11:03 AM.

Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Marty in Minnesota] #1406166
03/29/10 11:17 AM
03/29/10 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,099
Glendale, Ca.
D
Dave Ferris Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave Ferris  Offline
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D

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,099
Glendale, Ca.


.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D # 571692
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: Horowitzian] #1406204
03/29/10 11:59 AM
03/29/10 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 353
New York City
SophieM Offline
Full Member
SophieM  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 353
New York City
Did you get batteries for your camera yet? When are we going to see a picture of your B that you love so much? Can't wait!

Last edited by SophieM; 03/29/10 12:00 PM.
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: SophieM] #1406273
03/29/10 01:03 PM
03/29/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,935
Colorado
I
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Inlanding  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,935
Colorado
For what it's worth, I humidify the entire room using an Air-o-swiss, and it's done a remarkable job. When it is more humid (summertime), I just won't use it at all.

It seems my sinuses have benefitted from the added percentage of humidity in the home as much as the unmolested 1917 Steinway has as it pertains to tuning stability and overall tone.

Glen


[Linked Image]
A Bit of YouTube
PTG Associate Member
Re: Steinways and Dampp-Chasers: Bad Combination? [Re: jim ialeggio] #1406350
03/29/10 02:16 PM
03/29/10 02:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 448
Richmond Hill, Ontario
J
JD Grandt Offline
Full Member
JD Grandt  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 448
Richmond Hill, Ontario
Originally Posted by jim ialeggio
Newgeneration..

could you discuss the venta-airwashers a little more...I'm intriuged.

In many homes, the room with the piano is not separated or closed off to the rest of the house. In this case, have you found that this humidifier's effect on the immediate area of the piano becomes diluted, or not?

What is your experience with the noise level, as well as experience with the sales pitch bit about bacteria and mold? I'm not familiar with the product, but would like to see if its worth considering.

Jim Ialeggio


Well as far as the info....check out the website at http://www.venta-airwasher.com/

Regarding the immediate area and dilution of humidity (that can't be the proper way to describe it), that would be something to consider with todays open-concept homes. I use two of the large ones in my showroom and discovered them while visiting the Steingraeber House in Germany last year.
I like them as an alternative because they cater to more than just the piano and have the added advantages of easy cleaning/maintenance and a cleaner (more dust free) home. (Also less dust accumulating on the soundboard under the strings in a grand).

Noise level - quietest I've experienced in person. There are 3 speeds, and number 1 is hardly noticeable. With the last 'other' humidifier I had at my home, I would run it on its normal speed on the main floor and could hardly sleep upstairs in my bedroom at night.
Bacteria and/or white dust...., do some checking around. These are legitimate concerns with exisiting humidifying units and Venta's system doesn't have any of these concerns, period.

Hope that helps!


John
J.D. Grandt Piano Supply Company
www.jdgrandt.com
https://www.facebook.com/JDGrandtPianoSupplyCo
J.D. Grandt (Worldwide)
Steingraeber & Söhne (Canada)
Lomence Modern Crystal Piano (North America)
Piano Bass String Manufacturing Specialist (Worldwide)
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