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Coming in a little late here:

I charge ahead, monthly, because my time is valuable to me and if I am reserving a section of it for someone, I would like consistency in knowing how my time will be spent. It is inconvenient when someone doesn't show up because I could have scheduled someone else in their place or scheduled something else in my life, period.

However, what I would consider doing on a case by case basis, is reserving a certain time slot, say a couple of hours on a certain day of a week, for students who have those special time needs. And then, that way I would know ahead that that time might be used, or might not be used, and I could still plan my life.

I would also feel free to be quite picky about whom I chose to give pay-as-you-go lessons to. They would have to be quite talented or just plain fun, for me to take them on that way.

I would start getting resentful as a teacher if all my students paid on a lesson by lesson basis, because that would make me feel that my skills are disposable to them. And they do not need a resentful teacher!

I have done pay as you go lessons before with some friends kids.... and was often left sitting there wasting my time waiting on them when I could have been spending my time in a much more valuable way, so that is where I'm coming from.

Hi Nguyen,

I'm not a teacher - but was reading your post - I can see why it's hard to find a fixed time for lessons.

Have you thought about trying to find a teacher near your work, where you could do a 45 minute lesson during lunch (assuming you can get away for a lunch break)? That might be one way to "sneak in" your lesson time?

And... I know this doesn't solve the babysitting problem... but do you really need to mop EVERY weekend? I'm feeling very overbooked with my time lately too, and I've decided that, when I die, nobody is going to care how clean my house was. I don't want to live in complete ruins, of course, but I'm learning to live with a little more dirt, as a tradeoff to having more time to do things I care about.

(I'd love to get someone in once a month to scrub the floors, baseboards, bathroom and kitchen so I NEVER have to do those - not comfortable spending the money right now, but it's something else you guys might want to think about. Given how busy both you and your wife are, it might be worth the money to have more time for important stuff - family time, piano, sleep )

Hope you're able to get it figured out, even if it means having the grand-folks take turns watching the little one for a couple of hours once a week.

Good luck!

I concur, with the above. Not every student who comes to you for lessons will fit with your policies and may want to change them to suit themselves. But knowing what works for you and sticking with it politely yet firmly will make you feel better about everything and not make you feel like you are being either taken advantage of or pressed into something you don't want to do. Even with questioning on fees. Every teacher charges different depending on their expertise, there is no reason to apologize if you are more expensive then someone else. Simply tell them you totally understand and they need to feel comfortable with staying within their budget and if taking from someone that is more expensive than they want to pay makes them uncomfortable or stressed they need to look for another teacher and feel comfortable with their budget other wise they won't enjoy giving their child lessons. There is nothing wrong with turning someone down nicely, and sticking to our policies, don't feel bad. We all have to do it at sometime within our teaching career.

Thank you, John. I’d personally like to apologize for the below misguided comment:

This is just my playful way of seeking your advice. You know I always respect and value your inputs John, from the very first time you gave me that method book series question advice. The above quote has not thing to do with what said or done before my original question.

I’d also like to apologize Barb860, teachers and all for taking this thread and turn it into my question. I fully understand this was created and intended to discuss the aforementioned topic related to children only, hence my question clearly states:


I did not internalize the children situation. My question started with OT (I understood OT as off topic, or does it mean something else?). I thought even though it’s off topic, it’s also fees and lessons related that I struggle with for awhile, was not ready to create a thread to ask it myself, and at the risk of upsetting some teachers, I asked here hoping for the best, expecting the worse.

Being in my late 30s, as you all know too well, we know, understand and have our priorities and values in check. For me personally, son’s well being comes first, then wife’s career, then my career, then piano. I do have a deep passion for music, piano in particular but I can’t argue and place it ahead any of the above mentioned. If I’m doing this and hope to make it into a career, then the order will absolutely change.

I’m not saying all this to keep finding excuses for myself. I only say it so we understand each other. And also hope that you know I’m not a teenager or twenty-something kid asking a question with a moment fire of passion and not much depth. It’s a sincere question, weighing and pondering for a lengthy period of time, looking for advices. And yes, I have gotten plenty. You all open up a whole new door and an abundance of possibilities.

Thanks saerra, one of the possibilities is he doesn’t crawl anymore, so no need for mopping every weekend. Yay, I didn’t think of that before.

I haven’t called the teacher yet, but I’ll find a way to fit a lesson in every weekend. Who said Piano is easy right? I knew that coming in, and I am determined to take it as far as I can go.

Thanks for all the advices and encouragements.

Best,
Nguyen

Nguyen, thank you for your kind words. Really, you don't have to apologize. I didn't find your post offensive in any way. It's that when we write these short posts, something we say is often misconstrued when no mal-intent was meant by the poster. It happens way too often. The fact that we get hyper I think is a testimony to our dedication to piano, each in our own way!

I make my entire living from piano teaching and can tell you that I could not possibly afford to offer pay as you go lessons.

I'm sorry to say that people who want to pay by the lesson have no intention of turning up every week. If they had then they would not object to paying tuition.

Without this thread and this kind of discussions, I think we as student don’t understand the other side of Piano lessons.

To a certain degree, I regret asking my question. Don’t get me wrong, I get all the answers I need. It’s just that it makes me sad I have to try to defend my sincerity bringing my whole life (work, wife, son and everything in between) into the discussion. I’m sure I wouldn’t be as down as I’m now if I didn’t ask. Maybe I’m not as strong as I think I am.

Now in order to prove that I’m strong and can do it, I am going to have to find and fit a teacher into my weekly schedule, even though I’m so not ready for it. Maybe this will push me and I’ll end up study with a wonderful teacher. But right now, I’m just so down... I need to let it out...

Thanks for listening,
Nguyen

Nguyen, all I meant was that I personally can't offer lessons on that basis. But I do know of plenty of teacher's who do because they teach part time or as a side line to their regular work. Some of them are very good teachers as well.

You need to find a teacher who is willing to be a little bit flexible because of the demands on your time. There will be one out there. All I would say is that you will get more for your money if you are able to get a lesson in each week. That doesn't mean it has to be the same time each week. It might just take you a few phone calls to find the right match but don't be put off by those teachers (like me) who will turn you away.

Most people will have a busy schedule and it's often a very difficult thing to fit in. If you have little time for lessons or practice then to be honest you shoudn't waste your money. But you have an interest which is evident from your posts and have said that practice time is not a problem. The only problem is when to fit the lesson in. I'm sure you can find someone to work with.

I'm of the belief that we can think our ways into the situations we want in our lives by looking at the possibilites in a positive light and then deciding what it is that we can do at this time that takes us toward the goals we want.

Limbo exists when we see things negatively or don't see them objectively, or can't for some reason bring ourselves to act on what we want.

The pro's have to out weigh the con's and we must see a light at the end of the tunnel that allows us to take a small first step to making it happen.

As, I had said, I kept putting things off for myself in many ways because in a 7 member family there was always a financial consideration that came before my needs that was more important and I made that qualification myself. With what I wanted, I was in the minority, and usually the majority ruled on decisions such as what brought pleasure or significance to the most people in the family. What were the priorities?

It took me 10 years from the date of my marriage to buy a piano for myself. I bought it with the intentions to pick up where I had left off musically, to fill myself with my love of piano music, and to one day teach piano. To my good fortunes and efforts that all happened. But, for those years before I could take that step, it was a decision, nothing had changed in our financial structure, it was actually a risk and unnecessary expense (to many people's thinking)to purchase a piano at the time. However, it was of huge importance to me alone and I stepped up to the decision because I needed a piano primarily in my emotional life for the satisfaction of being a musician again and the hopes of creating a future career for myself.

So I speak of passion helping to make the decision.

Best wishes to you, Nguyen!

On the topic of pay as you go lessons: I'm fine with pay-as-you-go, because my schedule over the last 4 years has meant my students have had to be flexible with me, if they wish to continue lessons with me. But pay-as-you-go with no commitment to more than one lesson at a time is different matter, and for that I charge a massive premium.

In my experience, students without a regular time slot end up taking no more than 7 lessons before they disappear into the ether from which they emerged. Sometimes it can be as few as 2 lessons before life gets too hard for them to manage a 3rd!!!

So I do understand Betty's urgings that one simply figure out what one wants from life and go for it. There is no other way to achieve goals.....

Of course I have not intention of turning up every week. We don't make appointments with each other every week, but every other week at the most frequent and each appointment is planned at the end of the lesson. Works great for adults who work and for teachers who make their living mostly from performing on the piano rather than spending 8 hours a day teaching.

Currawong, this is an interesting arrangement. I'm curious what your teaching policy looks like, if you use one.

I have an information sheet which states expectations (and policy, I suppose) but I don't have anything to sign. If I had a full studio again as I did once, I would certainly go this way. But I'm basically working as an accompanist, with teaching on the side. Because the sort of arrangement I described in my previous post would not be ideal for younger students, with their school routine and other activities, my students are almost entirely adults.

I have never had any problems with payment, notice or any of those things teachers have a policy document to guard against - with my adult students, that is! (I've had some doozies with children... or rather, their parents. Strange that, because they're adults too )

I explain to potential students at the first contact how I operate, and if that is not going to suit them that's as far as it goes. Most pay by the school term (10 weeks), either all at once, or in segments. If I have a gig I usually can give them at least a week's notice and find a suitable alternative time. In return, I will accommodate their scheduling problems to do with work, overseas trips, meetings etc as long as I have sufficient notice. They are all very considerate and treat me as a professional, and I don't assume they're trying to take advantage of me. They also practise. Have I just been lucky? Perhaps.

I've had a few come and go, as most of us do, but because accompanying and coaching singers/instrumentalists is my main source of income, this doesn't bother me as it would otherwise. Most have been with me for years.

You are so nice, Barb. Over and over you show your concern by putting your students needs and feelings into your thoughtful consideration.

That sounds like a phone call you received. I think phone calls are more difficult to do in that most inquiries seem hurried on the telephone with conversation randomly changing focus before you've had a chance to complete a reply. We have to plan an agenda for phone calls to say what we want them to know about us as well as answering our questions. We get one short attempt usually unless the parent is very serious about us as the teacher it's shopping around on their part.

I would prefer to have conducted this by email where I can send the inquirer some attachments about my studio: the studio policy, the tuition fees, back ground about my studio, my teaching philosophy, my contract. Not that you or any other teacher has to do this exactly like I do, you have to find your own system of approach that works best for you.

She is the one who doesn't fit because it's completely to her benefit that she will pay for one lesson at a time. This puts you in the position of entering checks in your income records every week and then banking weekly. The reason who monthly or semester payments work so well for piano teachers is that it reduces our "accounting" time greatly and lets us make less trips to the bank. I use my student's entry date (first lesson) as the due date, so I have various due dates to cope with, but a teacher could prorate to the 1st of the month for all students, collect all tuition fees that week and make one bank deposit at the end of that week. Efficient and effective use of your time.

She was also adverse to attendance policy. That would tell me that she is not going to be truly a prospective student for me.

Bottom line: Thank you for calling. But the things you are looking for and the way I operate my piano studio business are not going to be a compatible fit for us. Would you be interested in receiving my written information about what is required of my students and their families to become enrolled in study with me?

If you have a web site, you could ask her to visit it for a view.

I don't think she will easily find what she is looking for but it will take a number of phone calls on her part to get that message.

If it's not a problem to the teacher receiving the inquiry and they are able to proceed to accepting the student, then they know what the "issues" may be going into it.

For a teacher for whom this is an obstacle, if you accept this student you are sabotaging all the relationships you have with your current studios. All that you have worked toward in establishing these rules for your needs as a teacher will be compromised. You are setting a new priority.

Another way through this would be to have a program in place for these kinds of inquiries to explore being with you in lessons for a short period as an "Introduction" period. (Testing the waters). After this, I would require year round enrollment and abiding with the studio policy and payment program. This allows the family to see what they would be missing if they had to have it their way. They may gain respect and trust of your system and they may choose to comply.

I'm doing this one paid lesson first with the option of 10 lessons as the introductory period, and then it would be year round lesson enrollment. I might consider continuing in 10 lesson scheduling at a time.

When a teacher protects herself she is likely to avoid being stressed out and frustrated. If we need cooperation we have to tell them what that cooperation consists of. When they say "No" to the rules, they are saying "no" to us as a person and a teacher. No means no and they decided that to meet their criteria. So, I say it was not a request for lessons from us personally, it was shopping around for anyone who would accept the circumstances.

The quality and outcome of your teaching is not in the equation at all. That would bother me.

Betty

Interesting thread! I notice that most of the posters on here are from the US - here in the UK it is pretty common practice to charge by the term, which usually means in a batch of between 12 to 16 lessons at a time.

For about 17 years I worked at a studio that was affiliated with a music store. For the first few years, we used to charge weekly - at the end of each night, I'd fill in a ledger detailing how many lessons I'd taught, and for the shop's commission I put the appropriate amount of cash in the tin. Then, one day, one of the staff took me to one side and said he'd compared my schedule with the amount of commission I'd been putting in, and he'd calculated that in just 6 months, student absences had cost me in the region of £1000. Now, bear in mind that this was about 20 years ago! £2000 a year is a lot of money to me even now - back then this came as a major wake-up call!

So we soon implemented a monthly payment scheme, with the idea being that missed lessons were not refundable, and not guaranteed to be made good, unless sufficient notice was given. This was certainly a massive improvement to the previous situation, but there were still regular situations where I'd end up having a disagreement about due payments with a student. The problem was, we needed some holiday; so our solution was the 'occasional 5 weeks in a month' idea that I saw mentioned earlier - i.e. the students paid a regular monthly fee for which we offered 48 lessons a year. The trouble was, that there were always those customers who simply couldn't get their heads around this concept, so when they missed a lesson, either accidentally or for a scheduled holiday, they would deduct the cost from our fees. The flaw in this plan, we came to realise, was that because they were paying for such a small amount of lessons at a time, they were more inclined to see the monthly payment as being for those specific lessons. Of course, they *never once* would offer us 5 lessons' worth when those longer months came around

Eventually, having looked at the way other schools in our area were working, we went for the termly fees, and have never looked back. We have always offered the option to pay by 3 installments, but these have been due on the first lesson in each calendar month as it occurs in the term, which is normally over 3 months long. This reinforces the idea that they are buying a time-slot in which we guarantee to offer them a lesson during our term time.

The way I see it, and consequently explain to our clients, is that it is very similar to a place in nursery or kindergarten - you pay a termly fee, and for that, they will guarantee a place for your child on the days you pay for. If your child is ill one day, or you go on holiday (this is the one that really gets my goat - they want to save money by going during school term, and I'm supposed to donate some of my wages/time to this!?) you wouldn't expect a refund from the nursery, and you wouldn't get a day in lieu from them either.

Obviously, I understand that we are not the same as a kindergarten, but the business model needs to be similar, otherwise it just isn't cost-effective.

The bottom line is this: If a student expects to come at the same time every week, then that time-slot *must* be paid for, otherwise you could be filling it with another paying student. Payment in advance is essential, otherwise it becomes much harder to demand the money for missed lessons.

It's not as if being a music teacher is particularly lucrative job, after all. The hours we can teach are limited and, to many, our service is a luxury - therefore we cannot charge anywhere near the same rates as those often charged by other skilled professionals, despite the fact that we have probably had to train for far longer to acquire our level of expertise!

This is not to say that I am completely inhuman about people missing lessons. If there is enough notice, I am happy to offer an alternative slot *if I have one*. Also, I rarely charge for extra lessons given near exam/concert time, so in most cases my students come to realise that it all levels out in end, and often in their favour.

As for those who want to just come for the occasional lesson, or fortnightly, well that's fine as long as they are happy to go at the end of my schedule. There is no way I would ever consider allowing this for a time-slot that was in the middle of a session.

Yes, interesting thread.
I'm curious, Ben, about what you'd consider to be adequate warning or "enough notice" to reschedule someone's time slot?

I prefer a week or more, but to be honest, it's not an exact science. Also, this notice doesn't guarantee them a make-up, just that I'm more inclined to offer them an alternative slot if one is available (and, of course, the more people that give me advanced notice of absence, the more likelihood that others can be offered an alternative). It can be quite a difficult balancing act though - there are always one or two students who get it in their head that I 'owe' them the missed lessons, which can make things a little awkward sometimes. Confrontations with students over finances are never fun!

The main advice I can offer is to be as clear as you can be about your terms and conditions when you first enroll a new student - if you're not, and they start assuming or dictating their own rules, then it can make for a long-term problem. Nowadays, we print the conditions on the reverse of the invoice for next term's fees, and ask them to sign that they have read, understood and agree to abide by them.

This is something I'm going to have to implement most likely for next year since I'm auditioning and trying to get more of a performing career in opera going. I love all of my students, though, and so I'm committed to continue teaching them if they can be flexible.

And of course, if I'm asking them to be flexible with me, I will be flexible with them as well and accommodate their schedules. However, I think for me the best way would be to simply charge monthly for however many lessons in that month rather than give the option of paying by semester. I know there are some who prefer to pay by semester, but then that leaves me in the lurch to do make up lessons which I may not have time to do. Paying by lesson really does not appeal to me, and I'm sure it doesn't appeal to my students. Too much paperwork!

THIS, so much this.

I have said before that I am not a professional but will "pinch hit" while people are looking for another teacher.

People that are serious should have no problem doing a pay by the month ordeal, unless they are really financially burdened and then a week by week thing may be fine if they seem trust worthy.

I hate it when I have to stand there at the end of the lesson waiting to get paid when and they stare at you as if to say, what are you still doing here?(I actually travel to their houses, they all live within a block of my house). Luckily this isnt my day job so I can afford to put up with it.

** people that want to do pay per lesson are usually the ones that will take advantage of ducking out on the lesson as often as they can, and unless you are really hurt for cash should be avoided.

** I would say to her, if it were me, "I understand your feelings, nobody likes to pay for things they dont use, I really can't think of any teachers to refer you to that go by a pay-per-lesson method; all the ones I know operate on a similar manner that I do. I tell you what, think about it and if you aren't able to find someone that does the pay-per-lesson I would be happy to know that I was still under consideration as the alternate solution." Now you have made your point and did so in a professional way.

For those teachers who charge monthly in advance:

How do you handle the changing amount of lessons per month? For example there might be 4 Mondays one month and 5 the next, not to mention public holidays, pre-planned holidays they may take or days you need to miss. Do you invoice each student at the start of each month or at the end of the previous month to ensure payment arrives on time?

I have thought about this in order to make my own payment policy more flexible and less complicated. The trouble is that it just seems like an administrative nightmare.