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+ 1 to Ingrid's statement.

Not so sure I agree.

My kids have a lot of activities that are fun and which they choose to do on their own, with their free time. If I let them, they would fill their time no problem with a lot of activities most of which would not develop them at all.

Even a kid who enjoys piano, as my son does, will not voluntarily do the hard work necessary to really improve. Fun is fine, but work is necessary, and kids generally try to avoid work. That's where I come in as a parent.

I don't think 30 minutes per day of focused work and attention at the piano, in the middle of lots and lots of play of various sorts, is objectionable. That's what makes me the parent.

I find that a strange conception of a parent.

Also, I don't agree that kids generally try to avoid work.

Zenobe,

For some kids school is more then enough 'developmental' activity.

For those that want more (or where you as a parent think that for whatever reason some additional 'developmental activity' would be a good idea) I would at least try to let the child pick the activity. Could be playing an instrument, could be something else (from drama class, a chess club, or even reading books about the universe or whatever!)

I would never decide for a child that it HAS to play piano, or whatever. And I find it a weird idea that you think children have to be 'forced' to do stuff because they apparently lack an interest in learning new things...I think you might just have picked the wrong thing for YOUR child, if that much force is necessary!

And anyway..what's wrong with having fun when school is done? And who says that anything 'developmental' has to be tedious?


Ingrid

That's great! Do you play together, pieces for 4 hands.

There is no reason to push him to learn or to play without you, to nudge him out of the nest. Everything has it's time.

Agreed. At this point, with both my children young adults, it is no longer a parenting theory.

I took piano lessons from when I was about 8 until I was 10 or 11.

I felt that I actually made good progress, but I stopped practicing entirely in the last year or so of lessons. My mother did try to make me practice but I still didn't. I suppose if she pushed me harder I would have, but instead I just said I wanted to stop taking lessons.

Soon after I started playing electric guitar and bass, self taught instead of lessons.

Fourteen years later, I realize that if I had kept up taking piano lessons and practicing all this time, I could be a good player. I am now trying to self-learn a few pieces on the piano. It is fun, but I really regret that I didn't stick with the instrument so long ago.

Oh well.

When I was younger, it only annoyed me when my mom told me to practice. Then when I had to quit lessons, I started doing stuff on my own. now my mom can barely make me STOP playing! I spend 90% of my free time playing old pieces or trying to learn new ones (mostly old pieces, but it has helped improve technique and such...)
Point being, sometimes forcing someone to do something they dont want to do right then can put them off. If they like it enough theyll stick with it. if not, maybe they would prefer another instrument? thats just from a kids perspective so...yeah xD

I would argue that there are no activities that do not develop children in some way. Even playing computer games or watching TV develops some abilities and also can be an enabler for other interests and a source of creativity.

And I certainly don't like the "if only my parents had been more strict, what a pianist I'd be today!" kind of statement. Chances are, if someone's parents had been more strict, this person wouldn't be playing piano at all as an adult for it represents the parental opression which he or she had to suffer as a kid (I know some of such examples in my environment).

Again, I like Ingrid's way - kids can be quite erratic if you don't inject some level of control. Making the decision a severe one will get most children into thinking - and almost any child with some motivation and enjoyment in piano playing will answer the yearly question with yes.

This 'If only I'd been pushed' attitude can be said for many things. If only I'd been forced to play tennis, dance, sing, study, etc. My parents have always allowed me to stop things I didn't enjoy and they always provided new things to try. As a result I have become, as my signature says, a jack of all trades but a master of none. Would I have it any other way? Not a chance.

Think of it this way, what did you do with your life instead of play the piano as a child? Go outside and kick a ball around? Actually meet people and make friends? Your life may have been very different, and there's a chance it would have been for the worse. I know if I hadn't quit a few things and taken up a few more I wouldn't be with the love of my life and I wouldn't have had the experiences that sitting infront of a piano would have brought.

@the.grey.squirrel: my thoughts exactly

Hey, most kids I know would also quit elementary school in a heartbeat if we let them. Many would be content to sit in front of a video game console all day, putting them at risk of diabetes and heart disease at a young age. So the question of "what they would do instead of practice piano" would likely not be make friends or kick a ball - it'd be beat the next level of WoW.

Hmm. This thread is moving a bit off topic, but anyway...

School is kind of obligatory, so let's not talk about that.

But for the rest:




Well, there's lots of room for compromise between 'forcing' your kids to practice piano for an hour a day, or allowing them to sit behind a tv or computer screen from 3.30 pm till bedtime.



With again the added comment that I find it really weird that you think that that is what children in general would do, given the chance. Doing mindless, empty things. I find that a rather negative starting point for any parental thoughts. And my experience with my own children (and other ones I know) is quite different. Of course they need guidance and direction, but I do not recognize at all this need to 'force' them away from any natural mindless tendencies. If necessary I help them to find things that they can get excited about, but very often they discover those things themselves with not that much help. Sometimes by trial & error (basketball was only a short term thing here, just like table tennis), but that's fine. It's also a great way of learning!

Ingrid

My story, as I've told before in other threads, was that both my parents are non-artists/musicians and never really knew the importance of having such a "developmental activity" like piano to have in my life. I thank them that they invested in my lessons, and a piano and such, but both myself and my mom regret why she didn't push me. My teacher strongly discouraged me (and my mom) from my quitting after having reached level 4, but my mom didn't stop it. I don't blame her at all, because again, her being a non-musician (and at the time, a struggling immigrant trying to work full time and raise a family), didn't know any better.

As for all of you player-parents...bravo to all of you! You see, that's the advantage that our children have - we all know how important piano is because we ourselves are players, and some of us are re-beginners as well. Let's just embrace it and keep encouraging our kids to be the best they can be at piano. Then maybe one day, they can "hang out" in the Pianist Corner and discuss their level 10 pieces...lol.

Actually my son loves playing piano. What I am struggling with now is whether, as he matures (he is 12 now), to continue to apply the same gentle but firm parenting to require him to practice every day in a focused way, as I have in the past 5 or 6 years that has helped him to reach this point.

Piano is something he loves doing, it is an important part of what makes him special, according to him, not me. Often in school they are asked to do "what makes me special" type of projects, and he always identifies music and piano. Again, it is owing to his hard work and my guidance and parenting. And we are very close too, and our work at the piano bench has made that stronger!

But I will have to gradually back away, out of respect for his maturity and individuality. 12 year old is different than 7 or 9 year old. It makes me a little bit sad and scared that he may drop it, and I may not hear him developing where I know he can as a musician.

I am amazed how parenting has evolved - when I was a kid (I am 44), children had no ability to self-direct when it came to things that were expected of them: chores, schoolwork, music, languages. Now, if a parent applies even mild pressure to guide and direct, it is abnormal!

Nonetheless, I expect that the posters on this forum, loving piano and children as they do, all have their own form of happy and enriching family life. And that is the biggest blessing I think.

What an awful image of children you have. Happily, it is completely false. If it were not, it isn't "forcing them" to keep on with their piano lesons that would keep any kids on the straight and narrow path between all the ruinous temptations.

I believe that you, Zenobe, are suffering from a profound lack of confidence in you child.





I disagree all along the line. In anycase, no one in this discussion, as far as I can understand, as said that parents must not guide or direct.

As the OP, I am very interested in all the replies and I appreciate the direction this thread has taken.

We all want to do what's best for our kids, of course. But it is so hard to know what that is, and unfortunately it doesn't become clear til later.

Much of it comes down to the specific personalities of the kids involved. My kids are both so different from me at that age. I was an enthusiastic and well behaved little piano learner at lessons. But I barely practiced. I didn't have the discipline myself, and no one made me do it. So eventually I had to quit because the music got harder and I couldn't get away with it. Still, I've appreciated music all my life in part because of those lessons, and now am enjoying re-learning several decades later. Music came easily to me then-- oh if only I had applied myself!

My son also has innate ability, I think quite a bit more than mine. He is luke warm about piano. Sometimes he likes it, sometimes not. I do insist that he practices because I think that's appropriate at age 8. *He absolutely would play wii all day long and do nothing else if he were allowed to.* Good thing he has parents. I question myself about whether we're doing the right thing, but I think we are. Especially now that he has a new teacher -- he really likes going to lessons and doesn't want to leave! Interestingly, my husband who is a total non-musician believes absolutely that we are doing the right thing encouraging him in piano at this age, even if he "complains" about it. He complains about school too. He complained about Little League last year too until he had to admit he loved it (and asked to sign up again this year).

My daughter is again completely different. She asked to study violin and is doing it, but it does not come easily to her. She has to work HARD at it. She is finally learning to read music, but not without struggle. She can't always hear differences between half-steps. The violin squeaks. I give her so much credit, I think I myself would have quit in frustration by now. But she is doing it, really finally making progress. She has to be reminded to practice but she clearly says she wants to keep going with it overall. We've tailored our approach to her differently.

Long winded, but I guess my point is that some kids do need to be "pushed." Before having such a kid, I never would have imagined that based on the kind of kid I was myself.

What a great discussion! As a parent of two boys who also play piano, I'd like to put my 2 cents on the table.

Not to generalize but from my own experience, if I let my sons to pick the things they like to do, they most likely will pick anything other than piano. It takes a lot out of you sitting there practicing piano, just imagine how much of your body is involved, your eyes are looking at the scores which is abstract, you brain does a lot of processing to direct your fingers to hit the right keys at the right time with different intensity while you feed press the pedals subconsciously. There may be a few kids (music genius?) who genuinely enjoy playing piano, but I would say the majority would not do it if not coaxed to.

Researches seem to show that playing piano (or any other instruments) helps establishing the connections among brain cells for little kids, the most is gained between age 4 and 11.

Before my sons got serious with piano, they used to need a big chunk of time to do their homework and they need my help often. Now they can whipped it out in no time and seldom ask me for help. Their test scores and grades also go up, they went from an average B student to straight A. I could not believe my eyes when I saw their last report cards, they both got ALL 4s in Reading, writing, and Math!

I don't know how much playing piano has to do with their progress in school, hey if it works, I will just keep doing it!

So based on the above, I will ask my sons "firmly" to practice piano if they "forget" it. I would be fine if they don't wish to do it after they are 11.


I am very interested to hear the stories from other parents.

Chopinmaniac, I made a conscious effort in 2010 to guide my daughter's practice and her math score (in standardized testing) improved from 81st percentile to 97th, this term. I'm not sure if these activities are correlated but I would like to think so. We have focused on sight-reading this year, which makes the brain work hard at patterns, etc. I'm no Psychologist but I think this helps with mathematical thought processes.

Also, the age 4-11 window theory is interesting too. I didn't take up piano until the ripe age of 9, but came back very strong after a 27 year layoff. The piano skills - mainly rhythm, finger dexterity, and hand independence - came back very easily because I think the "neural pathways" were established at this age. Now, my sight-reading's a different story. Sometimes I feel like a beginner when it comes to sight reading...lol.