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MadLiszt #1400107 03/20/10 04:36 PM
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...and?

2301 #1400137 03/20/10 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 2301
Although you were joking about medication, it is widely used by professional musicians. Some studies suggest that more than one third of professional musicians use them. Beta blockers are the drug of choice for musicians, they inhibit the release of stress chemicals (adrenaline, cortisol and noradrenaline). These chemicals cause shaking, sweating, dry mouth etc. The use of these drugs is even more widespread among brass players because they suffer because of dry mouths.

I can recommend some books on the subject of stage fright:
The Audition Process: Anxiety Management and Coping Strategies by Stuart Edward Dunkel
Anxiety and Musical Performance: On Playing the Piano From Memory by Dale Reubart
The Inner Game of Music by Barry Green


Actually I wasn't joking. I honestly don't think a pianist (or any musician) should rely on medication to get through a performance. The medication becomes a crutch. I speak from experience, having been overly reliant on anti-anxiety meds myself at one point in my life.


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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Outside of drugs there's nothing you can do about the bodily effects of adrenaline. Whether sightreading or playing from memory if you can 'see' your fingers play every note in your mind's eye "without repetition, hesitation or deviation" and with the correct fingering then you can't mess up because adrenaline doesn't effect imagination. Matthay calls it 'silent practice'. Getting to that degree of competence with a work is a lot of effort though. Those who can 100% play by ear obviously have a different route.


My old piano teacher called this mental practicing and I can vouch that it does work. When I was preparing for my audition last December, I went out for a walk and practiced my Mozart Fantasy in my head when I took a break. I focused on each page, note, phrase, etc. When it came to to play the piece for real, it was like an old friend then because it was well so rehearsed.

John


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Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
Schuur #1400155 03/20/10 06:13 PM
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I agree with pretty well all of the suggestions so far, with practicing playing in front of other people being the most important. Even if you don't suffer from stage fright you will find that playing for an audience adds more distractions. If you barely know the piece well enough to play when you have no audience you will probably make mistakes when you do have an audience.

For me the hardest part is playing on a piano I'm not used to so if you get a change to practice on location you should do so.

Chris G #1400196 03/20/10 07:18 PM
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I said this before, and a lot of people did not like it, but I think it is important, particularly when you are playing for others, to play for fun. There is no point in worrying about the music you are playing so much that you are not having fun playing it. Not only that, I think I am not the only one who prefers to be entertained by people who want to share the enjoyment they are having performing.

If you make a mistake, it is no big deal to me unless you make it into a big deal, which is why I tell people not to talk about mistakes with anyone. (Whether or not they know you made a mistake, there is no need to tell them.) Learn to ignore them.

It all boils down to the fact that it is only a performance. You do not need to obsess over it.


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BDB #1400236 03/20/10 08:26 PM
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To add to the above, whenever I have a wrong note I think of Horowitz =) if he's allowed so should I!



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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
To add to the above, whenever I have a wrong note I think of Horowitz =) if he's allowed so should I!


Foul. Disrespect for Horowitz is not allowed! shocked

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Originally Posted by John Citron
I've started an interesting book by Seymour Bernstein. "Your Own Two Hands". In there he mentions memorization and public performances. Of interesting note, he says the biggest cause of mess ups is due to not focusing on the present and thinking too far ahead.

This makes sense, and I've had it work occasionally. If we focus on the present thing we're working on rather than what's coming up, we can concentrate our energy on what we can control, and not panic on what's heading our way.

Most importantly he also discusses the slow practice so that the mind and the fingers are absolutely sure of the music so when auto-pilot kicks in, we have one less thing to worry about.


This is exactly what my teacher and I discussed today. My problem with anxiety caused numerous mistakes and mess ups - but focusing on the present... not about the next section or even the next note allowed me to play through the piece without error. Slowly of course... but it took the anxiety right out of it!

So that's my practice technique for the next month leading up to exam time.

Damon #1400300 03/20/10 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
To add to the above, whenever I have a wrong note I think of Horowitz =) if he's allowed so should I!


Foul. Disrespect for Horowitz is not allowed! shocked


She's not, at all, disrespecting, Horowitz. Lord knows he was familiar with wrong notes, but as a great pianist once said, "If you are afraid to play a wrong note, the other notes sound less right."

Last edited by stores; 03/20/10 10:24 PM.


"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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Strategies I learned in a performance anxiety class:
1. Own the room. Place an imaginary star somewhere far back and high on the wall in the room you will perform in. That star means the room belongs to you. You are not a visitor. Play to that star...or play to a single person in the room.

2. Anticipate distractions such as odd sounds, coughs, squeaks and make an affirmation that you will not be distracted. Ask someone to make random noises while you practice. Ask them to come up behind you and thump your chair or poke you. Put the portable phone near your piano while you practice and ignore it when it rings. Affirm that you will not let anything distract you during the performance.

3. Sit down at the piano and deliberately play some terrible mistakes. Learn to forgive yourself and keep going.

4. Be able to restart the piece from many places so if you do make a mistake, you can pick up the music again, seamlessly.

5. Take advantage of all opportunities to play for others. Ask your friends and family. Also try to play on as many pianos as possible.

Here's some things I learned from reading:

6. Schedule a "performance" several weeks in advance but this performance will take place at home, when you are alone. You will find yourself getting excited as you anticipate your dress rehearsal. Pretend it's the real thing. Get dressed up as you would for the real concert. Enter your music room as if it is the stage. Bow to your audience even if it is just the cat. Play. Bow and accept their applause. Leave the "stage".

7. These illustrations are from the book "The Perfect Wrong Note" by William Westney.

[Linked Image]

He calls the first illustration an "ego drama" in which your energy is driven by "what do you think of me?" as if you are performing for a panel of judges. You feel powerless and experience a physical sense of constriction. All the energy in the room points at the performer.

In the second illustration, you convert the thinking to generosity as in, "Let me share this with you" and "What does this mean to all of us right at this moment?". Sending the energy out creates a bond between you and the audience in which everyone is rewarded.

And here are a few things I've learned on my own:

8. When I play informally for people, I always wish I had played better. I often want to play a second time. During my second opportunity of the evening, I'm always more relaxed and I play much better. So, pretend your first performance of the night is really your second. "Hi it's me again" and you will do much better. It's all about mind games!

9. I love what I play and I want my love of the music to come through so I try to stay focused on projecting that love. I try to remember that I want to feel good and the audience wants to feel good. No one is my enemy. They are all hoping I will play well so our goals are the same.


Edit. Oh yes, one more thing. Think slightly ahead (maybe the next measure) of where you are playing and stay focused there.


Best regards,

Deborah
Damon #1400321 03/20/10 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
To add to the above, whenever I have a wrong note I think of Horowitz =) if he's allowed so should I!


Foul. Disrespect for Horowitz is not allowed! shocked


!!!! How could you think I was! I LOVE Horowitz!!! My point was that he almost never played note perfect performance and it as still amazingly incredible.



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Gooddog #1400396 03/21/10 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gooddog

Edit. Oh yes, one more thing. Think slightly ahead (maybe the next measure) of where you are playing and stay focused there.
Nearly. Put all your mental energy in the present, 'ahead' will then always present itself.

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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
To add to the above, whenever I have a wrong note I think of Horowitz =) if he's allowed so should I!


Foul. Disrespect for Horowitz is not allowed! shocked


!!!! How could you think I was! I LOVE Horowitz!!! My point was that he almost never played note perfect performance and it as still amazingly incredible.


laugh

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Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
Are there any rules against using medication (for example propranolol) at major competitions?

No -- at least not that I've ever been aware of.

I think it's rarely even mentioned publicly at the events. It's the '800-pound gorilla in the room.'

Gooddog #1400613 03/21/10 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gooddog
Strategies I learned in a performance anxiety class.....

3. Sit down at the piano and deliberately play some terrible mistakes. Learn to forgive yourself and keep going.
.....

That's not gonna happen. ha

Mark_C #1400627 03/21/10 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C


And if all that stuff doesn't work, then consider medication. ha
j/k


I knew that there was something odd with that video of yours on youtube ha

Joking... now seriously, medication? It is a fine way to get yourself an addiction, IMO.



Mark_C #1400660 03/21/10 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by gooddog
Strategies I learned in a performance anxiety class.....

3. Sit down at the piano and deliberately play some terrible mistakes. Learn to forgive yourself and keep going.
.....

That's not gonna happen. ha
Mark, the instructor explained that some of performance anxiety is caused by the inability or fear to face failure. The idea is to face and conquer your fears. I watched two high school aged ladies refuse to make a mistake even when asked to. It was very painful for them to be less than perfect and very difficult for them to allow themselves to err. When they finally made some deliberate, tentative mistakes, they grinned and sighed with relief. We then practiced how to recover from making mistakes without letting the audience know, (unless they are intimately familiar with the music).

I remember a similar experience with one of my sons. He was so terrified of making a behavioral mistake at elementary school that he was almost paralyzed by his fear. (No, I've never hit or ridiculed him). I asked his teacher to please catch him doing something so he could experience the error, live through the consequences and experience surviving it. It was a very good lesson for him and for me.


Best regards,

Deborah
Gooddog #1400684 03/21/10 03:14 PM
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Instant forgiveness!! That's helped me a lot.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
deAlmeida #1400784 03/21/10 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by al-mahed
Originally Posted by Mark_C
.....And if all that stuff doesn't work, then consider medication. ha
j/k
I knew that there was something odd with that video of yours on youtube ha

LOL!! I guess I might as well use the stuff, because everybody probably figures I must be on it. ha
But I've never used anything -- and I recommend strongly to others that they regard meds as an absolute last resort for this.

Quote
....Joking... now seriously, medication? It is a fine way to get yourself an addiction, IMO.

The main medication that's used for this (propranolol) isn't addictive per se. But of course we can always talk about "psychological" addiction.

Some of the other possible meds can be addictive.

Gooddog #1400788 03/21/10 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by gooddog
Strategies I learned in a performance anxiety class.....
3. Sit down at the piano and deliberately play some terrible mistakes. Learn to forgive yourself and keep going.
.....
That's not gonna happen. ha
Mark, the instructor explained that some of performance anxiety is caused by the inability or fear to face failure. The idea is to face and conquer your fears.....

Yes -- I know the theory about it, and I don't question that it could help. But I doubt many people would ever want to try it (I mean in actual performance situations -- even though it seems the example{s} you gave were such situations although I really couldn't tell for sure).

And I think they shouldn't, because there are other, better ways to approach it, including the numerous other things that you mentioned.

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