Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Pulling a student out of an exam

This is coming as student and parent of now-adult was-student-once, of course. So it might be off.

Chris, what I am reading so far is the following. It would seem that you see some potential in the young man, and that he is not living up to his potential because he has not been practising - that was the reason you took this gamble. You have written that he is certainly capable of it (If he had practised). What you see in him is something positive and uplifting (the potential) - does he know it? The second part is your concern about his lack of practicing which is causing him not to reach his potential (what he should be able to do). That is another thing that he needs to understand. Maybe you have said it here and there, but has he really understood it? These are also positive things.

Currently he is in this situation where he is not ready for the exams, which are in two weeks. He feels in a bind about it. The first lesson in it for him is the fact of him not having practiced, and how he could have nailed it if he had done so. What if you can use this? What if he gave it his best shot, fought to get his material as well as he can get it in the next two weeks - get some effective ways of practising - maybe extra lessons if you can manage it. Even if he fails it is less of a failure. Whether or not he "fails" the exams, he will still be improving tremendously, which is the thing that is actually won. If there is improvement - if he manages to see that improvement (even with "fail" comments) then might this be something to build on and look forward to?

I think the choice should be his, in consultation with you. He's 15.

The part that I am not able to understand since I have not been in such situations is the parental part. I keep hearing that parents care a great deal about these grades and these exams. I am a parent, and have only had to deal with my own situation which was not that. What is the parental attitude? Are they only oriented toward grades or do they have a perspective of their son as a musician / music student? If they have a broader perspective, and can be made to see that the real learning does not reside in that event, maybe the three of you can work together.

How does this boy handle challenges? Is he into sports, for example.

Interesting - I can think of two students I had who were not ready for exams I'd entered them for, and we did a similar last-minute give-it-your-best-shot rescue mission. It was amazing what they could do when they really decided to.

Yeah honestly, dave's comments are pretty harsh toward a situation he is generalizing from the phrase "pushed him into it". Obviously if the child had doubts about doing it he would have conveyed them to his parents and had them not fork over the cash. Unless the parents are rich and do not really care where that money is going. In which case problem solved!

As well, not all professions go by the same code of ethics. If you work as a car sales man and "encourage" or "push someone into" buying a car, it is for a much different reason than a teacher encourages or pushes a student to develop his/her skills at the piano. I am not a piano teacher, but I am a student. The way I see it is if my teacher is not pushing me to get better, I am certainly wasting my time. As well, stating that pushing someone to get better in a skill they dedicate hours per week to improve is a bad thing? Give me a break.

If you are calling Chris H's professionalism into question, he/she acted in the best interest of the student and herself. Judging from what Chris H has said, the child had the potential to do it, has already been through the exam process, and just did not dedicate enough to practicing. So in my eyes, it is the fault of the student. To restate, the student knows what is on the syllabus, knows what it takes to get there, knows how long until the exam, and just did not practice.

What I would do is pull the student if he/she is not ready. If he enters the exam and fails miserably, his pride will suffer and your pride and reputation will suffer. The money will be wasted either way, and the student will learn a lesson either way. However by pulling him it have less of a strain on your reputation (maybe).

Parental attitude is that it is just another subject in a long line of subjects and activities undertaken both in and out of school. It's the qualifications and certificates that count. At the moment he is half way through a school music course at the end of which he is required to be at least 2 grades higher than the exam he is currently taking. The school is a specialist music college and music is supposed to be his thing. He did very well in his last exam and the preparation was done at a late stage. This time though the standard is higher and he really has left it too late IMO.

Because I made a mistake. Clearly it was not the right thing to do.




Well thank you for that. I feel bad for him too. There must be some reason why he is unable to do this and I can't seem to help him. Given that music is his main interest I intend to refer him to another teacher who may be able to.

Goodness gracious me...... Wow..... D4v3, in this instance I think you got the wrong end of the stick entirely......

Teachers tend to feel it is their fault for anything and everything ('if only I could have found a way to motivate him' kind of thing), and use terms like "I pushed him into it" when what really happened is they said to the student "well, instead of waiting until the very end of the year (when you will have lost all motivation in any case) why don't we do the exam a month or two earlier?" and the student hummed and hahed and the teacher said, "do you want to do an exam or not?" and the student glumly mutters "yesss", and so through this process it is mutually agreed to enter the student for the exam.

It's commonly accepted wisdom that entering students for exams motivates the student to work harder, so Chris H.'s behaviour is well within professional norms.

When the student (15 years old, hello) fails to do any work this is the equivalent to not handing in homework at school. Do school teachers feel responsible for students not handing in homework? Nope!!! It's the responsibility of the student middle, beginning and end. So if a student fails an exam at school do you compare the teachers to banks encouraging unaffordable loans? That's an amazingly ridiculous comparison....

Chris: I tend not to enter students unless they are already ready before the entry date, but sometimes that's just not feasible for some basic practical reasons, like those you outline above, and I've pulled students out of exams on more than one occasion. Most recently the (also 15 year old) student would have failed or barely passed, but 4 months later they received a high distinction. Parents, student and teacher all thrilled, and no one even wasted a moment thinking about the two entry fees that had been paid. I pointed out to the parents that they would have to pay *far* more than that in extra lessons in the final 2 weeks the first time around if we were to have a hope of the student being ready, and we all agreed it was a good lesson for the student that once he took on a commitment he needed to shoulder his responsibilities in earnest, and not simply expect that everything would magically work out.

And forget your reputation - who cares, really?! Think about how stressful it will be for both you and the student trying to eke out a bare pass, and how unproductive this experience will be: there's the reason the student should be pulled out of this exam. A reasonable parent (who wants to see their child grown and learn) will know that the child has been lazy, and that's the root cause of the problem.

I agree with Elissa.

Well so do I actually, but I also really understand Chris's feelings, and we can't just say "it's not your fault, stop feeling like you're feeling." (Well, we can, but it usually isn't helpful.) And, whether it's true in this case or not, sometimes things are our fault. Not for the reasons D4v3 gave, but because we just haven't done what we ourselves think is sufficient. So I was looking for a way which helps Chris come to terms with the situation, too.

(I've pulled students out of exams too, by the way, without refunds for exam fees)

The young man may not wish it, but I think you have to talk to the parents, and soon. I hope you're able to get some clarity in your own mind before the talk, and to better consider what constitutes a healthy boundary in a student/teacher relationship.

At worst, you are only partly responsible. The student bears a part (maybe the major one), and the parents; all were involved in the decision to schedule the exam and the responsibility to prepare for it.

The young man will be old enough very soon to serve in the military, to marry and have kids, to have a charge card, to earn his own living. Sometimes valuable life lessons are not cheap.

But, I'm hoping against hope that he can pull it out of the fire somehow... as unlikely as it seems.

Your reputation must take care of itself; I would set this consideration aside. If you have built a good and consistent one, others know it already. I've never heard of anyone who had a 100% success rate--- not come by honestly, anyway.

Oh currawong, I didn't give Chris any advice on how he should be feeling! I gave D4v3 some ideas about how teachers feel, and how this maybe was misinterpreted in this case......

Teachers feel deeply responsible for their students, but this is not the same thing as actually being responsible for the failure of the student to prepare and practice.... And because teachers work on their own without colleagues to discuss these issues with we find ourselves in a public forum having our feelings interpreted as evidence of unprofessional behaviour.

That's a tad cynical Jeff! I've actually had 100% of my students receive distinctions or high distinctions over the past 3 or 4 years (maybe even 5?), and as already mentioned in this thread, that's partly because we decided to delay one student sitting their exam for 4 months (to everyone's relief).

Are you suggesting that I've done this in a dishonest fashion?!

btw, my students only sit exams if and when they wish to and they are ready - is this cheating?!

Adrenaline and challenge can do some powerful things.

If you don't mind me asking, what grade is it? That would make a difference!

Chris, I started my teaching day a half hour before your post, and am now on my dinner break - the first of the day, before 3 more students this evening.

What a lot of comments your post has produced! Wow.

I strongly encourage my students to participate in Guild auditions. Why not? The process is good for them. As has been noted, it's motivational, it gives students goals, it teaches them to allocate their time and to prepare appropriately. I suspect you're in precisely the same situation. Back in December, one of my better students seemed to be lacking preparation lesson after lesson. We talked. I began to get concerned that he would not be ready for the Audition come May. Finally, in February, I told him (he is 16) that I was going to have to discuss this with his parents, because progress just wasn't happening and he'd never pass his audition if things didn't change.

I mention this, because I have to send in Guild audition fees in January, at the latest, so his fee has already been sent in.

So, to make a long story short, parents want him to continue lessons, his interests have diverged, and while he isn't going to stop his music, he is stopping serious piano study. There was no issue about parents paying the audition fee.

Generally, I think that when there is any serious event like this, with a longer lead time, and fees must be paid in advance, it's not unreasonable for teachers to get a commitment from students, and if for any reason, the student cannot do the event, the fee is still owed.

As the money is paid to the event, I think you should be upfront with the parents and no refund should be forthcoming. The event is not going to refund the money, and it's simply unreasonable to expect teachers to fund vagaries of some students.

My thought about talking to the parents beforehand is this: The exam is still two weeks in the future. The boy has not yet decided to drop the exam. The parents don't seem to be aware. If the student does decide to give it his best shot, then the last thing he needs is to be undermined at home while he practises. His best guide is the person who understands preparing for musical things, and that is his private teacher.

There have been times that "I've" wanted to go in and play their practical exam. Who'd know! They don't check identity do they? Kidding here, really!

But, I agree with John, don't pay the parents back for the exam fee. You thought what you thought at the time, so the parents agreed with the exam, on your approval, and the student might just learn something by being in the exam room. Maybe he'll learn something like, don't commit to something if you aren't in full agreement with it!

Curious to know what his reason was for not working to be ready!

I've never pulled a student from an exam, though I have been very close once, and that particular student ended up just passing. There were underlying problems in that the student wasn't being honest with me about what he wanted out of piano lessons and the parents were pushing for the exam to happen without having any musical knowledge themselves or real tangible support for the student (such as helping him manage his time/supervise his practise/learn his theory etc).

In this case, I think you need to lay out all the options for your student in front of him.
Perhaps:
A: You do the exam without any extra work.
B: You do the exam and commit to 2 hours practice a day and extra lessons.
C: You forfeit the exam and commit to the later session.
D: You forfeit the exam and do not continue with exams but continue lessons.
E: You forfeit the exam and try your luck with another teacher.
F: You forfeit the exam and give up piano lessons.

Discuss all the consequences of each option. The student, at 15 is old enough to make an informed decision and should be encouraged to discuss the options with his parents.

Good luck and please tell us the outcome.

I have had a 100% pass rate over the last decade. This is also across piano, singing, violin, theory AND musicianship exams and only a handful of those students are merely pass marks. At the moment, around 50% of my students have achieved Honours or High Distinction.

Chris:

Do not feel guilty. Many teachers decide to pull students out of testing because the students are simply not prepared. This year, I sent the most students ever into CM. I also had to pull a couple of kids for the first time ever. Thank goodness for Path B.