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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: madshi] #1388756 03/05/10 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi


You're reducing him to be nothing but a DP hater. I think that's not a fair interpretation of his point of view.So there goes your idea of him hating all DPs.

[



No, Dewpster is clearly biased against pretty well all digital pianos which he has described as "crap".

He has "reduced" himself to this position several times.

He has admitted this in other posts...just do some reading and you'll see...I'm not accusing him of anything that he has not described himself thus.

He has also admitted to being an amateur, and the possibility of inaccuracy of the tests, as well as the actual inaccuracies that did occur, which by now, thankfully have been corrected for the most part.


If there is any "misinterpretation of position", it is you misinterpreting mine.

So, do yourself a favor, and get your own facts correct before you start reducing yourself to a one dimensional poster. wink

Snazzy


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: snazzyplayer] #1388759 03/05/10 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
Certainly my posts are peppered with smileys and never mean spirited....nor do I use foul language, like you have done above.

Bullying and slander are fine as long as you tack a smiley at end of it?

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: snazzyplayer] #1388763 03/05/10 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
...as well as the actual inaccuracies that did occur, which by now, thankfully have been corrected for the most part.

Could you elaborate here? I don't have the faintest idea what you're going on and on about.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: jve] #1388767 03/05/10 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jve
Hi,


In conclusion, the CP1 is a very impressive piano type instrument. It's not necessarily the most authentic acoustic piano replacement -- definitely no AvantGrand killer -- but feels great to play, and is capable of producing lush, shimmering sounds.

AvantGrand N2: Can only echo what others have said: The most authentic digital yet. Apparently many serious keyboardists now tour with an N2, so maybe there will be a portable version (N1?) available at some point. Although that would of course be treading into CP1 territory!

-joachim



Well said, Joachim...Having had an Avant Grand N3, I didn't feel the CP-1 was an Avant Grand killer, especially as it does not have the tactile response that gives the N3 it's soul.

That being said, I believe using the CP-1's acoustic and electric pianos in an N-series instrument would be a wonderfully good idea, and a logical continuation of the line, especially if the price comes down and makes this type of digital piano available to more interested users.

I doubt if there will be a "portable" version, because having the "tactile response" system would add too much weight.

My only gripe with the N3 was the lack of more patches, such as strings, pads and organs....quite possibly the next generation (N4?) will include these important sounds.

Snazzy



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: dewster] #1388771 03/05/10 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
Certainly my posts are peppered with smileys and never mean spirited....nor do I use foul language, like you have done above.

Bullying and slander are fine as long as you tack a smiley at end of it?


I'm merely repeating your own admissions, only I haven't needed to use foul language.

Snazzy



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: snazzyplayer] #1388835 03/05/10 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
No, Dewpster is clearly biased against pretty well all digital pianos which he has described as "crap".

I know this is like talking to the wall but here goes.

Calling someone who is dissatisfied with almost all DPs "biased" is like calling someone who is dissatisfied with humanity a "racist". Better logic please.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: dewster] #1388842 03/05/10 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster


I know this is like talking to the wall but here goes.

Calling someone who is dissatisfied with almost all DPs "biased" is like calling someone who is dissatisfied with humanity a "racist". Better logic please.


No it's not...that's your comparison.

My logic is just fine the way it is, thank you very much.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: snazzyplayer] #1388850 03/05/10 12:27 PM
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Please keep the thread on track by discussing Yamaha stage pianos and cease the name calling. If you disagree with someones opinion, you are welcome to say so and why. That doesn't mean you can attack them personally or call them names (or transliterate their forum name) and I don't care how many smilies you tack on.

This otherwise useful thread is headed toward a shutdown if the sniping back and forth continues.


Greg
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: BB Player] #1388864 03/05/10 12:45 PM
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In what will probably prove to be a fruitless attempt to keep this thread open, I have deleted recent posts which have nothing to do with Yamaha stage pianos. If these types of posts continue to appear, I'll eventually get tired of doing it and will lock the thread. The choice is yours as to whether that happens.


Greg
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: Dr Popper] #1388883 03/05/10 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yeah I fully understand but I think the SN RD is actually quite bright;

Steve



Yeah its brighter then your average Roland for sure ... not as bright as a Yamaha though.

Has anyone realised just how good the CP1's EP's are BTW ???

The CP80 and 88 patches are about as good as it gets ....


Hi Doc,

I play a Rhodes at our church, and the CP-1 makes you feel like you are actually playing that instrument.

I didn't like the CP-80 sounds because I've never really liked the CP-80 itself; I've always considered it a poor substitute for a piano, and I could never warm up to the bass notes. It does sound like the instrument, nevertheless.

I also agree with Pete about the way the new keyboard action seems to adapt, or conform to the type of piano that you select, and the CP-1 feels like an instrument designed by players for players, rather than technicians or marketers having the most say in it's development.

Best regards,

Colleen




Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: BB Player] #1389013 03/05/10 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BB Player
Please keep the thread on track by discussing Yamaha stage pianos and cease the name calling. If you disagree with someones opinion, you are welcome to say so and why. That doesn't mean you can attack them personally or call them names (or transliterate their forum name) and I don't care how many smilies you tack on.

This otherwise useful thread is headed toward a shutdown if the sniping back and forth continues.
Thanks for reigning in the invective.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: FogVilleLad] #1389017 03/05/10 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FogVilleLad


Originally Posted by BB Player
Please keep the thread on track by discussing Yamaha stage pianos and cease the name calling. If you disagree with someones opinion, you are welcome to say so and why. That doesn't mean you can attack them personally or call them names (or transliterate their forum name) and I don't care how many smilies you tack on.

This otherwise useful thread is headed toward a shutdown if the sniping back and forth continues.
Thanks for reigning in the invective.


I second that emotion. wink

There's been far too much vituperation. We're supposed to be friends here, even if we do disagree occasionally. wink

This is an important thread about important instruments. thumb


Snazzy




Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: snazzyplayer] #1389095 03/05/10 05:37 PM
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@snazzy good to hear you also want to refrain for vituperation. Lets get friends again! smile

Last edited by kawaian; 03/05/10 05:40 PM.

<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: jve] #1389134 03/05/10 06:52 PM
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Hi,

as promised I have been to the local piano dealer this afternoon for a quite lengthy test of several DPs and stage pianos, along with a comarison of several APs.

My original intent was to test drive the new Yamaha CP-1, but unfortunately it's not yet available, and the salesman couldn't give me an arriving date either... frown

Anyway, so I had lots of time to play all the others... I literally played through almost all the DPs they had, except for the stuff that obviously was nothing I would consider (like Technics and Casio, although Casio seems to have some very interesting stuff for people who are on a budget.

This is what I tried:
Kawai CA63 (just for comparison although I own it)
Kawai CA93 for the additional escapement effect in the keyboard
Kawai CA51 (for comparison of new RM3 keyboard and sound with the old keyboard and sound)
Roland HP-307 (finally I got my fingers on one after Dewsters technical review and others positive feedback)
Roland V-Piano (Is that modeling really that great?)
Yamaha CLP-370 (after a while and get used to Kawai sound I wanted to compare with my "old" favorite)
Yamaha CVP-509 (flagship with the same sound engine on DPs as CLP-380)
Avant Grand N3 (First time!! A must-try!!)

Then I played a lot of the available acoustic uprights and a KAWAI acoustic grand for comparison of digital versus analog keyboard and sound.

I played all the DP with a decent headphone, all the acoustics (naturally!) and the Avant Grand N3 were played without headphones.

Of course I have to say that I might be biased in favor of the Kawai CA63 since I own it, just that you know.

These are my impressions after playing these DP with direct comparison:

I first played the HP-307, because after all I heard in this forum this could have been the most interesting DP. First of all, the keyboard is really something different than the CA63 keyboard: It's heavier, and you have to press the key down deeper to get a tone. It was much more difficult to me to reach the correct volume on notes, but of course this is also a matter of adaption. But it was a lot more difficult to play very softly and at the same time quickly up and down the keyboard. This is something that works amazingly well on the CA63 keyboard.
The sound was, well, decent. I know this doesn't sound enthusiastic, but it is like it is: Its a mellow sound with lots of different effects on it, but it's just mellow. You have to press the key very hard to get a bright sound, and this happens all of a sudden, it's difficult to get something in between... It helps a little bit to set the touch of the keyboard from "normal" to "light", but it's still a very different keyboard feeling as the CA63, for my taste not better. Not really convincing. The damper effect: It sound quite real, but also quite light. So I set the intensity from 5 to 10/10, but that produced an almost "chorus"-like effect, not realistic at all. You can set the damper effect of CA63 to maximum without this "overprocessing" feeling.
One word of caution: For a real fundamental judgement I would have need to play a little bit longer with it.

Then I played the V-Piano. Well, at first it seemed that it was much superior to the HP-307. Maybe because of the good playability and reaction to velocity changes. But on the other side, after some playing time, I had the feeling that the mids are somehow on the thin side. But overall the playability of this one was way a tad better than the HP-307, the brightness does not come to suddenly after velocity goes up. I played some time with it (20-30 minutes), in this timeframe I didn't change any settings, just played with the first piano grand setting, just fiddled a little bit on the ambience adjuster, that's all. This shows that it's really playable, it was a lot of fun. On the contrary, from the beginning I had the feeling that the sound is not real, there is some artificial touch in it, I can't explain this better. Bottom line: This is a good beginning but nothing I would buy for lots of money. I have quite similar feelings to this piano sound as I have to the pianoteq sound which I just don't like (but the V-Piano sound is better).

Then I played the CLP-370:
It's the known, bright piano sound that many people love. And it sounds quite good when playing fast musical pieces. But: After reading Dewsters test, I checked the sustain of the notes: The higher notes have a really creepy looped sound. It starts very soon, you can clearly hear the start of the loop, and it's just plain static... Horrible! I'm sure I would have detected that after my buy and would have really regret the buy.
The keyboard again is a matter of taste: If you love a rather heavy keyboard that starts running after you have forced down the key a bit, then this is right for you. Ivory touch of the keys is very nice.

The CVP-509 is of course something completely different. I only tried this one because the CLP-380 was not available and this one should be quite similar on the DP part. And indeed: The sound was Yamaha-like and much better than the CLP-370 sound. Also the key action was much better than the CLP-370 (was this real or just imagination?). But this one costs a real bargain!

After that I played my CA63 again just for comparison purposes. An this time there was this big "aaaah"! The keyboard felt perfect, and also the sound was just right! Maybe is was because I'm used to it, who knows! But it festl just so - right compared to the others.
CA93 - This has an additional escapement mechanism on the keyboard. I don't care too much about that, I played in my life 90% piano uprights and max. 10% grand pianos, so I anyway don't care for this escapement feeling.
CA51 - It has a quite different keyboard feeling (much lighter and a little wobbly, and of course no ivory), and the sounds are much more mellow and not that much expressive.

After that I went to the acoustic piano department. While the DP department was quite crowded (about 6-8 people strolling around and trying this and that), I was the only one in the acoustic piano department. So I had no inhibition to play them all and very loud and expressive.

What I discovered at once was that almost all of the acoustics where heavily out of tune. Asking a salesman about this I got the answer that they know about this and that the reason for that is, that the door is opening and closing all the time, and they cannot tune all the acoustics every week. What the ...? The place for such an instrument at our home would be the space between two large windows/doors to our backyard which of course will be open all time... I don't want to pay endlessly for a tuner... Anyway, the sustain and the damperless play was really impressive, but these were my conclusions:

- Detune is a real pain
- The keyboard of acoustic pianos / grands are very different, from mediocre to very good
- Long sustain notes and damper effects etc. are the absolute strengths of acoustics (of course!)
- There are extreme quality differences between the cheapest model (2.500 Euro, Ravenstein?) and an expensive upright (Kawai and Schimmel upright). There was not one keyboard that felt the same.
I also tried a Yamaha model (can't remember which one it was, but it was more on the cheap side, 4.000 Euro?) which had a very good keyboard and sound (at least I can imagine it has a good sound if it would have been in tune). The keyboard action is although not comparable to the Yamaha DP action, it's was better.

All in all: After playing the acoustic I get really confirmend that buying the CA63 was the right choice: The keyboard feeling of it was quite comparable to an upright, and is somehow on par and within the wide range of keyboard feelings of the uprights.

Then I played the N3: This one is really an impressive instrument:
It really has a 100% feeling of a real piano, and it also sounds like one, when playing through the loudspeakers! Very impressive, you can play nuances very good! I played about 30 minutes on this one, because I couldn't stop. The price tag although is really hefty: It says 13.500 Euro (of course without any negotiation, don't know the end result). But if you have the money, this could be really a consideration!

One additional thing: Within the acoustic piano department this one (although digital) sounded best! But this was no wonder considering the other were all more or less out of tune! I really don't know how they want to sell any acoustic!

After all, this is my very subjective and very spontaneous ranking:

1 Avant Grand N3 (way ahead)
2 KAWAI CA63 / CA93
3 Roland V-Piano
4 Roland HP-307
5 Yamaha CVP-509
6 KAWAI CA51
7 Yamaha CLP-370

It's a real close call between V-Piano and HP-307. Both of them have areas in which they shine and some weaknesses.

My final conclusion of the visit was, that I made everything right with buying the CA63! It's the best sounding and especially the best keyboard action in this price range! Furthermore all others, except CA51, are more expensive.

Hope this review helps you a little bit with your decision making, but always remember: Only actual playing and comparing shows you which DP is for you!


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: mucci] #1389143 03/05/10 07:08 PM
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kawaian,

It's very interesting to read your review of the these DPs (and of course, I'm glad to hear that you are still very satisfied with your CA63), however your post doesn't really have anything to do with the CP1.

There are a number of comments I would like to make about your review, however I'm conscious that this may cause the topic to drift further.

Sorry, I don't wish to sound like a member of the 'forum police'...

Cheers,
James
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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: Kawai James] #1389144 03/05/10 07:11 PM
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Hehe, no I'm fine at all! I think I will republish as a new thread!



<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: mucci] #1389223 03/05/10 09:16 PM
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kawaian -

Thanks for your comments. Very interesting reading.


Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1389279 03/05/10 10:28 PM
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The CP-5 just showed up on Sweetwater's site with this note

Quote
Yamaha has informed us that this item has an unusually long shipping delay. Be assured we'll get it as quick or quicker than anyone else. Call your Sales Engineer, who can give you the most up-to-date details and possibly offer you alternatives that would ship sooner. We have a great relationship with Yamaha and we'll receive this item as soon or sooner than anyone else in the country.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CP5/

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: Zinfan] #1389327 03/06/10 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Zinfan
The CP-5 just showed up on Sweetwater's site with this note

Yamaha has informed us that this item has an unusually long shipping delay.


Late May or early June at the soonest. I confirmed it again yesterday. I've got a new CP-300 on its way here for me to try as part of my live keyboard rig.

Mychal

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha! [Re: Peakly] #1389380 03/06/10 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Peakly
Originally Posted by Zinfan
The CP-5 just showed up on Sweetwater's site with this note

Yamaha has informed us that this item has an unusually long shipping delay.


Late May or early June at the soonest. I confirmed it again yesterday. I've got a new CP-300 on its way here for me to try as part of my live keyboard rig.

Mychal


Which actually works out better for me. I'll be low on cash in April and May but June and beyond should be much better, just in time for a CP-5/RD-700GX(SN) or ????

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