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The idea came up in another thread that it might be fun to start a study group devoted to Chopin's op. 66, Fantaisie Impromptu. It is one of those pieces that everybody says is overplayed yet everyone wants to learn. A number of posters who are at various stages in learning the piece have declared an interest in forming such a study group so now we are making it official with this thread. Everyone is welcome to join!

The goal of the study group is to support each other as we progress through the piece, with people posting ideas, fingering suggestions, questions, answers, practice methods, progress reports, recordings, difficulties, rants of frustration, successes, and shouts of great joy. Experts are invited to chime in!

At the start it might be useful to declare which version of the FI we are learning. I would assume it is the Fontana version since it is the most played.

Some may be starting from ground zero, first measure, while others already have the piece memorized and are in the process of bringing it up to performance tempo. I am among the latter, struggling to achieve a credible tempo. I started an SOS thread a couple of months back and received some very helpful suggestions which are contained here:
S.O.S: How to Speed up Fantaisie Impromptu

I like to listen to many different recordings of the piece I'm learning and so far my favorite is Ashkenazy's...so crisp and clear, the allegro agitato truly agitated. Do you have some favorite performances?

OK, anyone who wants to join or proffer advice, you're on!

Ashkenazy's performance is truly amazing, it is my favourite too.

I have been studying this piece for a couple of weeks now. I didn't have a problem with the rhythm from the very beginning, but super speed is not my forte , so now I am trying to reach a reasonable tempo, even if it is not 100% performance level... I am going to read that thread you mention to find some hints....

Now a very simple question... In the middle section (the slower one, Largo) there are some grace notes in the RH. Chopin's grace notes are supposed to be played ON the beat, but these are 4 grace notes... Are they ALL supposed to be played on the beat?

Another thing... I think it would be nice to have a section for study groups. There are links in a post by Frank in the ABF, but no special section, so most study groups get buried under many other posts/threads... But this would be up to the moderators, I don't know if it makes sense to have a sub-forum for study groups, like mini-workshops...

Do you mean on measure 64? From my recollection, most (if not all) renditions I heard played that before the beat. I also play them before the beat, but I have them played relatively slowly and take up most of the beat before (so the E flat wasn't very long). Just my own interpretation though.

I prefer it before the beat too... Actually I always prefer grace notes before the beat, I don't know if it is because this is what I first learned. I do it almost automatically and heard only recently that Chopin's grace notes should be played on the beat....

zxcjason, ChopinAddict: You must have a different version from mine. I don't see any grace notes in measure 64 of my score shown below.

Interesting. I play the Fantaisie Impromptu out of the big book entitled "piano classics" (I have 2 of the "piano classics books"

it looks like this one, but it is a yellow color instead of white.

http://www.boosey.com/imagesw/shop/product/$wm1_0x700_$_AM91728_cov_cov.jpg

They are by far my favorite piano books ever! So many of the most famous works by huge composers ranging from Bach, to Joplin, and everywhere in between, even some fairly unknown artists!

I actually hadn't checked.... Now I have, it is the 9th measure of the Largo movement (the first time it appears, but there are other 2 similar measures in the Largo movement)...

There is a 3rd book? I asked in my music shop, where I bought the first two, and they said there are only 2 volumes.... Now I feel so sad... Yet another book I have to find in Sydney tomorrow I guess... But I cannot find it on the net either... Where is it?

The yellow one is the first volume , right? I love those collections too by the way. Unfortunately I have found a typo here and there, but I have found typos even in more prestigious books...

Opps! Typo. I have -2-.

Well I know there are at least 3.

When I got my second book (the yellow one) I had to choose between having a lot of Scott Joplin, or a lot of chopin! I of course wanted the more chopin, so I got the yellow one.

And the 2 that I have only have 1 of scott joplin each.

This is what gives me hope. Kid I know at school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8G6ebojfEM

Your friend Drew has some big ol' piano playing hands.

Lucky him!!

I've noticed that some versions of Fantasie Impromptu have a mini cadenza in the slow section. Other versions just repeat the 7:6 part. Has anyone else noticed this difference? (You can see it on page 4 of this score http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usi...worth_Band_1_Bote_Bock_Op.66_1200dpi.pdf and on page 3 of this score http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usi...ierwerke_Band_2_Peters_Op.66_1200dpi.pdf )

I prefer the version with the mini cadenza, but virtually all pianists seem to avoid it.

Interesting. I take it you mean this run:

I've never heard anyone play that either. I wouldn't call it a mini-cadenza though, but an improvisational flourish on the same figure that appears earlier. It was probably inserted by the over-zealous Klindworth.

What's odd is that many -- if not most -- of the great pianists in the past played the variation. Here are a few performances:

Hofmann: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hg1D_kS9N0

Godowsky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhDC77NhQSs

Bolet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocbbNrUBXog&feature=related

Emil von Sauer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqzr88QVic&feature=related

I personally think it helps liven the very repetitive slow section.

Yeah, it is odd... I don't even have it in my Dover collection of Chopin's masterpieces for solo piano...
And I have it as an "Ossia" in the Piano Collection mentioned in a former post...

Oops, I meant measure 65.

This is very cool! I always feel like improvising a bit at the last third of the largo section (unfortunately I can't improvise), I really would like more variation towards the end.

There is another version that Rubenstein played:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elox0npFTGI

Measure 36 has an extra chord, I actually like this better. Anyone have the score, or know what that chord is?

The left hand in the slow section is also a little bit different, but I don't like it as much.

Yes, if you youtube Richard Dowling ( I frequent his music shop and he is a fantastic person and concert pianist) you can see a few performances of his FI where he plays this "mini-cadenza" in the slow section. The reason for this, according to my teacher, is that these type of embellishments were very typical of Chopin and some fairly prominant scholars felt that it was an appropriate addition. Now whether there are any original copies showing this I do not know, but some feel it adds a bit of "Chopinesque" flare to the rather repetitive slow section. I personally do not play it, but it is fairly simple and would be an easy addition for anyone that wants to spice it up a bit.

Cheers,

David

The version that Rubinstein plays is from a manuscript that was in his own possession. That score is included in the Henle edition of the Impromptus before the more commonly played Fontana version.

On the fourth beat of measure 36 the left hand chord is F-double-sharp, C-sharp, E, A; the same as the chord in measure 35, but played one octave lower.

Regards,