Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
103 registered members (aphexdisklavier, AndrewJCW, ando, akc42, amyram, AntonioC, 36251, 32 invisible), 1,806 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: BruceD] #1387308
03/03/10 02:39 PM
03/03/10 02:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
One positive thing is that she has not kicked you out. It means that she has a lot of patience toward you. Many high level teachers will just let you go if for months you cannot achieve their standards. Especially, teachers who are into preparing for comeptitions. They have many other students who can make them famous. You need to be grateful that she even keeps you.


Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: RonaldSteinway] #1387374
03/03/10 03:46 PM
03/03/10 03:46 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,969
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,969
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
One positive thing is that she has not kicked you out. It means that she has a lot of patience toward you. Many high level teachers will just let you go if for months you cannot achieve their standards. Especially, teachers who are into preparing for comeptitions. They have many other students who can make them famous. You need to be grateful that she even keeps you.


(Playing the D.A. here) : How does the fact that Deborah is still with this teacher mean that the teacher has patience? It could equally show that Deborah has patience with a teacher who is not fulfilling the needs that Deborah outlined at the beginning of her search or who is totally indifferent to her student's perceived needs? How do you know that the teacher is a high-level teacher who lets students go when they don't measure up to her standards? And, finally, why should Deborah be grateful to a teacher who - from the accounts we have read - does not communicate, has only one standard of performance (her own), and who insists that invariable note-for-note interpretation is the only way to play? Why should one be grateful for inflexibility of method?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387381
03/03/10 03:56 PM
03/03/10 03:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
B
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Barb860  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
Deborah, you have posted a few times in this thread that you see this teacher as being very selfishly motivated, trying to make herself look good, etc. Given this is how she comes across, combined with the rigidity you describe, I would stop lessons with her and take a break. Regain some peace in your musical life and good feelings about your playing before moving on to a new teacher. What you have described sounds pretty negative.


Piano Teacher
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: Barb860] #1387398
03/03/10 04:22 PM
03/03/10 04:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,828
Seattle area, WA
gooddog Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,828
Seattle area, WA
Thank you Bruce and Barb. I don't think I need a break. I need a better teacher.

One thing I've come to understand is that there is a very big difference between being told how to do something and being taught how to develop the ability to figure it out yourself. My teacher will say "play this note, this way". I don't learn anything from that besides how to fix one note. I need a teacher who will teach me how to develop my abilities, not imitate like her a monkey.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387431
03/03/10 05:02 PM
03/03/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member
ChopinAddict  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music
Maybe she usually teaches very young children and doesn't realize that adults have their own inner voice they would like to express in their playing....
I can understand how you want to find a new teacher...



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: BruceD] #1387459
03/03/10 05:35 PM
03/03/10 05:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
[quote=BruceD
(Playing the D.A. here) : How does the fact that Deborah is still with this teacher mean that the teacher has patience? It could equally show that Deborah has patience with a teacher who is not fulfilling the needs that Deborah outlined at the beginning of her search or who is totally indifferent to her student's perceived needs? How do you know that the teacher is a high-level teacher who lets students go when they don't measure up to her standards? And, finally, why should Deborah be grateful to a teacher who - from the accounts we have read - does not communicate, has only one standard of performance (her own), and who insists that invariable note-for-note interpretation is the only way to play? Why should one be grateful for inflexibility of method?

Regards, [/quote]

Debora lives in Seattle so there must be a lot of Asian kids there, and piano competitions are part of Asian family life. Teachers who can produce a lot of piano champions (as stated by Deborah) are sought after by Asian families, they are in high demand. The fact that the teacher is willing to spend her time to try to improve Deborah playing is a proof that she is a patience teacher.

To me if one does not like the teacher due to any reason, just quit then. Nobody forces him or her to take lesson from any piano teacher. It is hard to believe that Deborah ideas in playing piano will be better than those of the teacher. Her ideas in certain part of the piece may sound good, but as a whole may be out of context.

If I were Debra, I would do whatever the teacher asked, do it very well, and move on to a new pieces. But if it takes Debra forever to do what the teacher asked, it means that the problem is not only the idea but also the ability, mismatch between ability and expectation.

Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387462
03/03/10 05:40 PM
03/03/10 05:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,725
Originally Posted by gooddog
Thank you Bruce and Barb. I don't think I need a break. I need a better teacher.

One thing I've come to understand is that there is a very big difference between being told how to do something and being taught how to develop the ability to figure it yourself. My teacher will say "play this note, this way". I don't learn anything from that besides how to fix one note. I need a teacher who will teach me how to develop my abilities, not imitate like her a monkey.


We know that being one of her monkey will make you a good performer, for she produced so many piano champions. Why don't you ask her why this note needs to be played this way, what is the reason. You are an adult, not a little kid. If she said "Why do you want to know", you quit then....
It is all depending how you handle your teacher.

Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387472
03/03/10 05:51 PM
03/03/10 05:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
J
joeydonuts Offline
Full Member
joeydonuts  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
each new song it an opportunity for learning new skills. You need to tell her its time to move on. Go with some new current stuff as well... it is fun to be able to sing to a song as you play.

Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387498
03/03/10 06:27 PM
03/03/10 06:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
B
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Barb860  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
Originally Posted by gooddog
Thank you Bruce and Barb. I don't think I need a break. I need a better teacher.

One thing I've come to understand is that there is a very big difference between being told how to do something and being taught how to develop the ability to figure it out yourself. My teacher will say "play this note, this way". I don't learn anything from that besides how to fix one note. I need a teacher who will teach me how to develop my abilities, not imitate like her a monkey.

Love this quote. I'm hoping you'll tell your teacher this.
(sans the monkey part :))


Piano Teacher
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: Barb860] #1387567
03/03/10 08:10 PM
03/03/10 08:10 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 214
P
pianogal37 Offline
Full Member
pianogal37  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 214
Good luck with the teacher search, Deborah! I've always had much more success and a more positive learning experience with male piano teachers too. Not that I would ever wish to make blanket gender generalizations, but I am just more comfortable with the style my male piano teachers have had, more laid back, less rigid. Just my experience. One of my female piano teachers had a bunch of clowns that sat on her piano, called "beat it", "tap it" etc. I still have clown nightmares. I have never encountered a clown-preoccupied male teacher smile


Bach French Suites No. 6, Allemande and Gigue, Beethoven's Pathetique, Chopin Nocturne 72/1, Fantaisie-Impromptu, Debussy's First Arabesque, Takacs Toccata Op 54, Rachmaninoff Etude-Tableau 33/8.
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: RonaldSteinway] #1387602
03/03/10 08:53 PM
03/03/10 08:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 216
Cleveland, OH
B
buck2202 Offline
Full Member
buck2202  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 216
Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
Debora lives in Seattle so there must be a lot of Asian kids there, and piano competitions are part of Asian family life. Teachers who can produce a lot of piano champions (as stated by Deborah) are sought after by Asian families, they are in high demand. The fact that the teacher is willing to spend her time to try to improve Deborah playing is a proof that she is a patience teacher.

There have been some odd racial discussions in this forum lately...I hope this doesn't turn into one. But regardless, that a teacher well-regarded for training competition-track children is willing to teach an adult isn't proof of patience. It could just as easily indicate that the teacher didn't adequately consider whether this pupil would benefit from her teaching style, and is too dense to notice that something's wrong.

Of course, it's far more likely that it just takes a while to really know whether a student-teacher relationship is going to work out. Sometimes they don't, and there's not necessarily always someone in the wrong. Also, it's not as if the teacher is necessarily doing a great favor by being willing to let a pupil pay to study with them.

Quote
To me if one does not like the teacher due to any reason, just quit then. Nobody forces him or her to take lesson from any piano teacher. It is hard to believe that Deborah ideas in playing piano will be better than those of the teacher. Her ideas in certain part of the piece may sound good, but as a whole may be out of context.

I don't think that Deborah ever said that she thinks she knows better than the teacher, though that's entirely irrelevant to what she's saying. Saying "play this note louder" isn't helping Deborah's ability to build or to express her own interpretations. Again, it's not about right or wrong here...there's just an incompatibility of styles.

Quote
If I were Debra, I would do whatever the teacher asked, do it very well, and move on to a new pieces. But if it takes Debra forever to do what the teacher asked, it means that the problem is not only the idea but also the ability, mismatch between ability and expectation.

Bleh. My (and probably Deborah's) goal for studying with a teacher is to learn, and working every piece up to a note-perfect state with an interpretation acceptable to the teacher is not a prerequisite of learning! To win a competition? Maybe. I keep repeating myself, but students and teachers can be incompatible without anyone being wrong or not good enough.


edit: Good luck finding a new teacher! smile

Last edited by buck2202; 03/03/10 08:55 PM.
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: buck2202] #1387613
03/03/10 09:23 PM
03/03/10 09:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
San Francisco Bay Area
P I A N O piano Offline
Full Member
P I A N O piano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
San Francisco Bay Area
I've been away from this forum for a couple of days and wow! I wish you all the best, Deborah! I can see both sides of the issue- it's great to work a piece to perfection- someone here said that it best that if it's a piece you are in LOVE with from deep within- a piece that resonates with your very being---then bring it to a place of perfection- defined personally and/or mutually between you and your teacher, together! (clearly, this is lacking) So, that said- it is also good to learn new pieces- explore repertoire and create your path musically! Both are important! Learning works quickly and moving on has its merits, too.
Hopefully, when you look back on this experience with this teacher, you can draw on the positive and find it AND MORE with your new teacher! Like boyfriends and husbands...hopefully you do better each time! HA!


Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: P I A N O piano] #1387622
03/03/10 09:58 PM
03/03/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,828
Seattle area, WA
gooddog Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline OP
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,828
Seattle area, WA
Buck, you see it exactly the way I see it. Thanks for backing me up.

I decided to hold my tongue about some of the things Ronald was saying because I don't want this thread become a victim of racism and then get locked down. (By the way, Ronnie, it's DEBORAH. )Sorry, I had to get that jab in.

Karen, I do like the music I'm playing very much. I'm just ready to move on. Also, I'm very lucky with my first and only husband - 32 years and counting. So, I do have experience with sticking things out and ironing out the differences. In this case, we are just too far apart to come to a mutual agreement. I agree that every experience provides something to learn from. I'm relieved that I've made the decision to leave this teacher. I'm going to try to hold on until the recital which is the end of the month and I'm paid until then. I'm looking forward to establishing a better connection with a new teaher.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Learning new music: how long is too long? [Re: gooddog] #1387633
03/03/10 10:28 PM
03/03/10 10:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 580
piano bench, usually
H
heidiv Offline
500 Post Club Member
heidiv  Offline
500 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 580
piano bench, usually
Do let us know how your search goes, Deborah. I wish you all the best.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What is this piece?
by pianoloverus. 10/15/19 07:53 PM
Heintzman & Co. project opinion
by D.P.. 10/15/19 05:56 PM
Playing by ear
by KuroMisaka. 10/15/19 02:47 PM
Why I’m convinced a good teacher is ESSENTIAL
by WeakLeftHand. 10/15/19 02:40 PM
A question for sight readers
by hag01. 10/15/19 10:36 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,537
Posts2,879,486
Members94,679
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1