Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
125 registered members (Alex Hutor, AssociateX, AnnInMiami, aphexdisklavier, accordeur, 7uturu, Abdol, Austerlitz, 30 invisible), 1,795 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 21 of 75 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 74 75
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1381406
02/23/10 07:06 PM
02/23/10 07:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Z
zaba19 Offline
Full Member
zaba19  Offline
Full Member
Z

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
The mode doesn't matter here, files saved in internal memory are affected too.
As for saving settings in internal memory - also didn't change anything. Besides you should hear the pedal sound and damper resonance with default (5) setting anyway.

Btw the thread has gone slightly off topic I think smile Maybe we should move it to another to not make any more mess here?

Last edited by zaba19; 02/23/10 07:16 PM.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: zaba19] #1381434
02/23/10 07:47 PM
02/23/10 07:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,135
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,135
Hamamatsu, Japan
R0B/dewster,

I received a reply from one of the MP programmers regarding String/Damper resonance when playing back MIDI.

He suggests checking that the 'SysCH' setting is set to 'Panel'. For reference, here is the explanation from page pp.48 of the MP5 owner's manual:

[Linked Image]

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James] #1381520
02/23/10 10:24 PM
02/23/10 10:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,516
Australia
R
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R0B  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,516
Australia
James.

Thanks for that info, but after a quick test, I found that the opposite, may be true.

I performed a factory re-set a few days ago, and have not altered any settings, and it seems the MP-5 defaults to 'SysChMode=Panel'.

I changed this setting to: 'SysChMode=Normal' and set string and damper resonance to max (10), along with Key off effect, and these effects are now being transmitted, and recorded.

Dewster.
Here is the new file, if it is of any use:

http://www.box.net/shared/kvq12s77jh

Rob


Rob
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: zaba19] #1381587
02/24/10 12:15 AM
02/24/10 12:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by zaba19
Btw the thread has gone slightly off topic I think smile Maybe we should move it to another to not make any more mess here?

I personally don't consider this off topic as technically it's a very unusual DP, and I'm sure others are interested in any issues you're having. Maybe someone from Roland will answer our questions soon.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1381677
02/24/10 04:06 AM
02/24/10 04:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,070
Munich, Germany
M
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member
mucci  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,070
Munich, Germany
Unfortunately there is no ROLAND James in sight... wink


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci] #1381679
02/24/10 04:12 AM
02/24/10 04:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,135
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,135
Hamamatsu, Japan
'Roland Ronald', perhaps? wink

Cheers,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James] #1381766
02/24/10 09:40 AM
02/24/10 09:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,717
Suffolk, United Kingdom
E
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,717
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Or maybe their distributor in Warsaw could contribute? "Roland Poland"


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1382184
02/24/10 07:58 PM
02/24/10 07:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
I got a response from Roland, they said they would get the HP-307 MIDI implementation document from their corporate parent and post it here:

http://backstage.rolandus.com/product_manuals/

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: R0B] #1382234
02/24/10 09:12 PM
02/24/10 09:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by R0B
I changed this setting to: 'SysChMode=Normal' and set string and damper resonance to max (10), along with Key off effect, and these effects are now being transmitted, and recorded.

Dewster.
Here is the new file, if it is of any use:

http://www.box.net/shared/kvq12s77jh

Thanks! I pulled it into Audition - excellent levels. Is it supposed to have sympathetic resonance? I don't see or hear it in there.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1382848
02/25/10 05:44 PM
02/25/10 05:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Today I ran our Yamaha Motif Rack ES through the DPBSD gauntlet. The patch is "Full Grand". I thought I turned off the reverb, but some of it remains. No real matter I guess, it's not like it's a groundbreaking sample set in any way. With that lackluster intro, I leave you to the review. MP3 output is at the sharepoint for those interested. Readme and review files have been updated.

-----------------------------------
- Yamaha Motif Rack ES Full Grand -
-----------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_motif_rack_es_full_grand.mp3
- Sonar, Echo MIA MIDI out, TRS out, Echo MIA TRS in, Audition.
PROS:
- Decent dynamic range (~37dB, vel=1:127).
- A fairly smoothly blended 3 layer sample set (spectral pan & phase displays).
- Visible layer switch @ vel=72,104.
CONS:
- Note decay rate is pretty fast (~2/3 to 1/3 Pianoteq, lo to hi).
- Obviously looped. Lower notes sound fake-wobbly, upper notes sound fake-static.
- Sample lengths are (C2:C9): 2.3,2.6,2.4,2.3,1.8,1.5,1.2,? seconds.
- Obviously stretched, low and mid group transitions fairly audible.
- Stretch distances: 2,3(x10),2,3,4,3,3,2,2,2,1,3,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,3,3,3,3,5 = 33 groups.
- Obvious velocity layer switch @ vel=104, timbre fairly static after that.
- No obvious sympathetic resonance.
- No obvious key up/down samples.
- No pedal up/down samples.
- No response to partial pedaling.
OTHER:
- Couldn't get SPDIF output to play nice with my Echo MIA card.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -1dB, noise floor @ -76dB.
- Sounds like a bit of reverb is still on.
- Date reviewed: 2010-02-25

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1382881
02/25/10 06:29 PM
02/25/10 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Roland HP-307 Visual Results

I thought people might be interested in some of the results of our tests on the Roland HP-307. The text review was posted earlier in this thread. This is quite the groundbreaking DP when it comes to technical specs that the DPBSD tests for.

As usual, people are advised to go and play one before deciding on such a major purchase - this test doesn't tell the whole story by any means. This test can however help you weed out problematic issues with sound that might bedevil you after you have owned a particular DP for a while (usually one day after the return period runs out smile ).

That said, the HP-307 doesn't seem to possess any of the usual issues normally associated with DP sample compression, which I find very refreshing. The Roland engineering staff should be commended for such a fine accomplishment.

[Linked Image]
Spectral phase view of the note C2. It looks vaguely cyclic, but over a much longer period then is usual for DPs loops. And by that I'm not really claiming the decay cycle is a traditional loop.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view of the note C3. Also looks vaguely cyclic, yet somewhat random too.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view of the note C4. Appears vaguely like a an attack sample melded to a somewhat cyclic decay.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view the layer test. Very smooth timbral variation with no visible or audible layer switching.

[Linked Image]
Spectral frequency view the layer test. High frequency content increases smoothly with velocity.

[Linked Image]
Spectral pan view the stretch test. The mid notes are shown here. Notes appear random, no visible or audible stretch grouping. Lower and higher notes not shown here also appear to be (and sound) random.

These and more pix for the HP-307, as well as the text review and MP3, are posted at the sharepoint for those who are interested.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1382969
02/25/10 08:58 PM
02/25/10 08:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
J
jmmec Offline
Full Member
jmmec  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
New Mexico (yes, USA!)
Thanks very much for your effort and analysis, dewster.


Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1383115
02/26/10 02:29 AM
02/26/10 02:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Czech Republic
pesk Offline
Full Member
pesk  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Czech Republic
There is a demo of K-RD700GX1 SuperNatural piano kit:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/pub/attach/203570-My_Pleasure.mp3

Maybe this guy could make the DPBSD file for you Dewster too...

http://forums.rolandclan.com/?action=show_thread&thread=32970&fid=34&page=3

Last edited by pesk; 02/26/10 02:33 AM.
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: pesk] #1383200
02/26/10 07:01 AM
02/26/10 07:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Z
zaba19 Offline
Full Member
zaba19  Offline
Full Member
Z

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Thanks for the detailed review of HP-307 dewster, always glad to hear positive comments on a new purchase smile Especialy if it's a totaly new approach of testing based on somewhat measurable facts. Naturaly you should never buy an instrument with such price tag without trying it first but at least everyone will be encouraged to try it now.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: zaba19] #1384278
02/27/10 09:12 PM
02/27/10 09:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
Dewster, thank you very much for this project, its extremely interesting!

Here is mp3 from my Yamaha CLP-330 (I think I'm going to replace it with HP-307 smile )

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s2gv6l


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1384362
02/27/10 11:18 PM
02/27/10 11:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by bkmz
Here is mp3 from my Yamaha CLP-330 (I think I'm going to replace it with HP-307 smile )

Thanks, I really do appreciate it!

Was the sympathetic or damper resonance set to the default setting, or turned up? If it was turned up, could you perhaps record it again with it set to the default?

Could you also tell me a bit about your hardware / software setup (soundcard, MIDI playback & recording software, etc.)?

Is it OK if I criticize it? smile

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1384791
02/28/10 02:05 PM
02/28/10 02:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
dewster

Damper resonance was set to max (20), and I don't remember the default value ) Maybe 2 or 10.. Ok, I'll re-record it with 10 tomorrow.

My soundcard is Audiophile 2496, I'm using SAWStudio to record audio. CLP330 can play midi from usb flash drive, so I just connected piano' phone-out (it's little noisy but lineout level is too low) to soundcard's line-in. Ofcourse you can criticize it )


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1384828
02/28/10 02:48 PM
02/28/10 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by bkmz
Damper resonance was set to max (20), and I don't remember the default value ) Maybe 2 or 10.. Ok, I'll re-record it with 10 tomorrow.

My soundcard is Audiophile 2496, I'm using SAWStudio to record audio. CLP330 can play midi from usb flash drive, so I just connected piano' phone-out (it's little noisy but lineout level is too low) to soundcard's line-in. Ofcourse you can criticize it )

OK, thanks! Before you record you might want to do a factory reset, then turn off the reverb. Your MP3 levels were very good, no complaints about that anyway smile.

Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster] #1385747
03/01/10 05:47 PM
03/01/10 05:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus
B
bkmz Offline
Full Member
bkmz  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 142
Belarus


ex-Yamaha CLP 330
Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz] #1385891
03/01/10 08:40 PM
03/01/10 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by bkmz


Thanks very much to to bkmz, we now have a review of the Yamaha CLP-330, which is a Clavinova introduced in 2008. In the "prices paid" thread someone bought one for $2390 USD in Minsk, Belarus.

There are two files at the share point, one with the default sympathetic resonance, and another with it turned up to the max. I think the effect is typical for Yamaha i.e. rather poor - I don't like the default value, and turned up I find it obnoxious.

The sample lengths are fairly short, and the upper note loop lengths are way too short, you can hear the resonance repeating like an echo.

It's also stretched a bit more than I would expect for an instrument this new and of this caliber. I could actually hear the upper stretching, which is rather unusual in my experience.

During the layer tests the notes are very damped sounding. The MIDI file plays one note repeatedly, with one event right after the next, so perhaps the CLP-330 is confused as to what to do with conflicting note on/off commands. Something I should perhaps fix in the next version of the test file.

On the plus side, the layers are smoothly blended.

------------------
- Yamaha CLP-330 -
------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_dr5.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to default of 5)
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_max_res.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to max)
- USB Flash drive (MIDI file), headphone out, Audiophile 2496, SAWStudio.
PROS:
- Huge dynamic range (~62dB, vel=1:127).
- A smoothly blended multi-layer sample set (Yamaha reports 3 layers).
- Something like layer switches barely visible @ vel=72,90 (spectral phase view).
- Responds to partial pedaling.
- Sympathetic resonance.
CONS:
- Note decay rate is somewhat fast, particularly the higher notes (~3/4 to 1/3 Pianoteq, lo to hi).
- Obviously looped.
- C8 & C9 loops too short, piano resonance sounds like quick repeated echos.
- Sample lengths are (C2:C9): 2.2,1.9,1.9,0.8,1.3,0.8,0.6 seconds.
- Loop lengthes are (C2:C9): 1.0,0.8,0.5,0.3,0.2,0.2,0.15 seconds.
- Obviously stretched, most group transitions fairly audible, even the higher ones.
- Stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,3,3,2,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,3,1,3,3,4,2,2,3,5,4,3,3 = 30 groups.
- Sympathetic resonance is unpleasant - echoy, reverby, resonant, fake.
- No obvious pedal up/down or key up samples.
OTHER:
- Notes oddly damped during the velocity layer test.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -1dB, noise floor @ -80dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-03-01

Page 21 of 75 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 74 75

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
any digital pianos with real piano mechanism
by Mike Mey. 06/19/19 06:32 PM
Edition for Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 by Liszt
by Candywoman. 06/19/19 03:50 PM
Layering sampled and modeled piano sounds
by Robhatherton. 06/19/19 12:54 PM
Charge per lesson or per semester?
by BluMunk. 06/19/19 11:55 AM
Fake or Real?
by PianoYos. 06/19/19 11:48 AM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,607
Posts2,839,782
Members93,657
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1