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Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! #1379268
02/21/10 01:34 AM
02/21/10 01:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
L
lifelongdream Offline OP
Junior Member
lifelongdream  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Ok so here's my story....I've been wanting to learn how to play the piano since I was 4 but circumstances prevented me from learning as a kid. So now I'm 25 and I've been playing since 6-2009. I am currently practicing on a Casio full size keyboard with the weighted keys and compared to the Yamaha Grand that I play on in my college classroom it's a night and day difference.

So I'm not that savvy in all the language of piano talk when it comes to sound boards and pins, etc.. I am ready to move up to a real piano and am clueless on what is the best for my price range. I went to a local dealer and I told him my top 3 choices are Yamaha, Kawai and Baldwin. But I'm specifically looking for a 5'1"-5'7" grand that is the glossy black.

Mr. Piano Dealer said that Kawai is a dangerous piano because of the carbon fiber they use is causing people to get cancer???!!! He said I could google it and I did but found nothing. Does anyone else think the same thing about the Kawai? A new Yamaha is totally out of my price range so I am looking at used, but Mr. Piano Dealer says that the Cable Nelson is the exact same piano as the Yamaha, made in the same factory with the same parts, etc.. But he didn't really tell me WHY the brand new Cable Nelson was so much less expensive than the Yamaha. Is a Cable Nelson just as good??

I have also looked into buying a Baldwin but finding a glossy black grand is really difficult, and they also get quite pricey used.

PLEASE I NEED ALL THE ADVICE I CAN GET!!!!! laugh

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Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379281
02/21/10 01:48 AM
02/21/10 01:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member
stores  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
LOL What? I guess I've been priming myself as a cancer victim, since I've my last two pianos have been Kawais. I've not ever heard that.

Last edited by stores; 02/21/10 02:08 AM.


"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: stores] #1379289
02/21/10 01:57 AM
02/21/10 01:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
L
lifelongdream Offline OP
Junior Member
lifelongdream  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Ya that's what I thought too. They had one at their store with everything exposed with all this information about how it causes cancer. I thought to myself if people were getting cancer from a piano they would probably stop selling it all together. I'm guessing since your last 2 pianos have been Kawai's that they must be a great piano. Do you have a grand or an upright?

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379293
02/21/10 02:03 AM
02/21/10 02:03 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 266
Washington state via OH-IO
Less Rubato Offline
Full Member
Less Rubato  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 266
Washington state via OH-IO
That's hitting a new dealer low.

Cardinal rule :avoid any dealer who uses low brow tactics to sell pianos. Find someone honest, not one (obviously) lacking in integrity.

Last edited by Less Rubato; 02/21/10 02:04 AM.
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379298
02/21/10 02:07 AM
02/21/10 02:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member
stores  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by lifelongdream
Ya that's what I thought too. They had one at their store with everything exposed with all this information about how it causes cancer. I thought to myself if people were getting cancer from a piano they would probably stop selling it all together. I'm guessing since your last 2 pianos have been Kawai's that they must be a great piano. Do you have a grand or an upright?


One of each. I got a great deal on both of them (both bought used), and I love them.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379301
02/21/10 02:09 AM
02/21/10 02:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 63
Montana, USA
Stearman Offline
Full Member
Stearman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 63
Montana, USA
Both Kawai and Yamaha are good pianos and will give many years of pleasure. There are lots of used ones on the market if a new one is not in your price range. That was funny about the carbon fiber. Guy actually said that? I'm rolling here. Why don't you hit up Craig's list in your area and about 200 mile radius. There might be a nice used piano for sale.

What neck of the woods are you from?

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: stores] #1379318
02/21/10 02:25 AM
02/21/10 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,745
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,745
Atlanta, GA
Here's an article that stating that there is medical evidence that suggests that playing piano prevents cancer.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/LIFE/802190308

If it is even really happened, suggesting that Kawais cause Cancer is a new (and funny if it weren't so sad) low. After hearing about Cancer, just start over with another dealer. I'm sorry for being skeptical, but occasionally new posts show up just to stir people up. Statements like a Cable Nelson is the same as Yamaha and cancerous pianos will certainly accomplish this.

There's nothing wrong with narrowing down your preferred brands, but I would do that later, not first given your background. Spend some time reading through related past posts and you'll come back more informed and with more sophisticated questions. A shiny black baby grand is available in probably every dealership in the country, one way or another. That's the easy part.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: Stearman] #1379323
02/21/10 02:33 AM
02/21/10 02:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,073
Toronto
G
Googlism Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Googlism  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,073
Toronto
The closest link I can think of between a piano and cancer is...basically burning the piano and inhaling the fumes of the wood and glue.

So unless you decide to burn a Kawai piano, or any piano of sort...I don't think need to worry! laugh




____________________

"... It is a skill you go on learning all your life: the more you write, the more you learn."

Harry Freedman on the craft of composing
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379326
02/21/10 02:37 AM
02/21/10 02:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
F
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
Originally Posted by lifelongdream
Ok so here's my story....I've been wanting to learn how to play the piano since I was 4 but circumstances prevented me from learning as a kid. So now I'm 25 and I've been playing since 6-2009. I am currently practicing on a Casio full size keyboard with the weighted keys and compared to the Yamaha Grand that I play on in my college classroom it's a night and day difference.

So I'm not that savvy in all the language of piano talk when it comes to sound boards and pins, etc.. I am ready to move up to a real piano and am clueless on what is the best for my price range. I went to a local dealer and I told him my top 3 choices are Yamaha, Kawai and Baldwin. But I'm specifically looking for a 5'1"-5'7" grand that is the glossy black.

Mr. Piano Dealer said that Kawai is a dangerous piano because of the carbon fiber they use is causing people to get cancer???!!! He said I could google it and I did but found nothing. Does anyone else think the same thing about the Kawai? A new Yamaha is totally out of my price range so I am looking at used, but Mr. Piano Dealer says that the Cable Nelson is the exact same piano as the Yamaha, made in the same factory with the same parts, etc.. But he didn't really tell me WHY the brand new Cable Nelson was so much less expensive than the Yamaha. Is a Cable Nelson just as good??

I have also looked into buying a Baldwin but finding a glossy black grand is really difficult, and they also get quite pricey used.

PLEASE I NEED ALL THE ADVICE I CAN GET!!!!! laugh


Dear Dream:

Here is some advice for you:

DON'T EVER SET FOOT IN THAT GUY'S STORE AGAIN!

If you do I will take you off my Christmas Card list forever!

Now I have heard everything!

Furt


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379335
02/21/10 03:04 AM
02/21/10 03:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
Probably not cancer, but pianos have been known to put people into debt they shouldn't or couldn't handle.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: Furtwangler] #1379347
02/21/10 03:20 AM
02/21/10 03:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
L
lifelongdream Offline OP
Junior Member
lifelongdream  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Stearman: I live in Washington Missouri
PianoWorks ATL: I am definitely not posting this to stir anybodies pot. I am 120% serious that his exact words were exactly what I posted.

Well now I know that guy was probably trying to give me a run for my money I probably shouldn't have told him that i wasn't really educated enough to know the differences in piano quality I just knew that the Yamaha I play on at school is really nice and that I heard kawais are great pianos also in their price range. So I'm also guessing that cable Nelson is not the same as a yamaha?? I have gone on craigslist sometimes I see nice stuff but sometimes not. I am trying to get as much info as possible so that when I'm ready to buy within the next couple of months unless I find a great deal that I can't pass up.

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379353
02/21/10 03:57 AM
02/21/10 03:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
Originally Posted by lifelongdream
So I'm also guessing that cable Nelson is not the same as a yamaha??


No. You do get what you pay for.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: 4evrBeginR] #1379497
02/21/10 12:01 PM
02/21/10 12:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 63
Montana, USA
Stearman Offline
Full Member
Stearman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 63
Montana, USA
You know, there are a lot of piano manufacturers out there. Too many to really remember and get to know. I was looking on Craigs list in the St Louis area and one kind of caught my eye. I know it is the wrong color and everything, but it might we worth looking at.

Chickering $2500

If you are thinking of getting a used piano, it is helpful to get a mechanics expert opinion. Since your going to need a guy to tune the thing, maybe check into that straight away. The tuner can also check out used pianos for hidden defects and they normally charge about 100 clams or so to do this.

There are lots of good worn used pianos that have years of playing time before major work must be done. Try to avoid the completely worn out ones that are going to take a few thousand to fix.

Finally, if you come across a piano brand that you know nothing about, Click on the link to the side of this page that says Piano Buyer. Good reading.

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: Stearman] #1379535
02/21/10 01:11 PM
02/21/10 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
J
joeydonuts Offline
Full Member
joeydonuts  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
probably some global warming tree hugging nut job telling you this.

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: joeydonuts] #1379565
02/21/10 01:48 PM
02/21/10 01:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,745
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,745
Atlanta, GA
lifelong,

Here's more basic advice. Go and try as many pianos as you reasonably can in your price range to start forming opinions of your likes/dislikes. Most people will find a common thread in their observations or else figure out what extra job or bank they want to rob to increase their budget crazy .

Start at a different dealer so that you can compare several in your first trip before heading into the craziness of Craigslist. In my experience, many sellers on Craigslist know as much about their piano as you do, so until you feel more confident, don't rush into any deal. Both dealers and private sellers have deals, but unless you build trust or your own knowledge, you'll have a hard time recognizing the good from the bad. Again, check for friendly references for good dealers and technicians who can talk to you at length.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: PianoWorksATL] #1379985
02/21/10 11:29 PM
02/21/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
L
lifelongdream Offline OP
Junior Member
lifelongdream  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Thanks soooo much for all the information. You guys are great. I'm really glad I found this forum site so many knowledgeable people.

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: lifelongdream] #1379997
02/21/10 11:44 PM
02/21/10 11:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,350
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,350
Lexington, Kentucky
Welcome to the forum, lifelongdream. smile I agree with the others that, whatever you do, you should not buy a piano from the dealer who told you that Kawais will give you cancer. Even more, I'd urge you to write him and tell him exactly *why* you are not buying from him. Maybe that will make him think twice before lying to prospective customers in the future.

My best advice would be for you to buy or borrow, and read, "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Buying a Piano," and "The Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer." The latter book is available free online (click on link on the right of the forum page). These books are great introductions to the issues surrounding shopping for a piano and will help you separate good information from complete total B.S.


Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: Monica K.] #1380007
02/22/10 12:02 AM
02/22/10 12:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
M
MattMontana Offline
Junior Member
MattMontana  Offline
Junior Member
M

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
One more thing: Cable-Nelson has a laminated Sound Board. Any decent Piano has a solid one, preferably Spruce. Cable-Nelson is made in Indonesia, Yamaha in Japan. Except the lower end Yamaha's are also from Indonesia.

Not to mention, they both sound like junk. If you are on a budget, at least get a BRODMANN (BG 162). Of all the budget pianos, this is the best. A good dealer should get it to you for about $12,000.

Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: MattMontana] #1380168
02/22/10 09:05 AM
02/22/10 09:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 504
Tennessee
P
PianoMan1958 Offline
500 Post Club Member
PianoMan1958  Offline
500 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 504
Tennessee
My advice is to research the market for a good used and/or reconditioned piano. I have done this on several occasions with excellent results.

EBay is a good place to start as they are several major piano dealers that sell used pianos through eBay as well as their own website. You can find some very nice used grands (5-6.5 foot) in the $8-12K range.

If you need specific examples, send me a private message and I'll be glad to give you some pointers.


Jack in TN

Plays:
Yamaha C5 grand (home)
Kawai KG5 grand (church)
Roland RD300GX digital (jazz group)
Re: Clueless Beginner Needs Help!!! [Re: PianoMan1958] #1380265
02/22/10 12:05 PM
02/22/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Westford, MA
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member
the nosy ape  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Westford, MA
Working with carbon fiber is quite dangerous. I do not know about cancer but it can cause Black Lung. If you are going to work with unencapsulated carbon fibers you need to wear a very good respirator. Once the fibers have been encapsulated in epoxy there is virtually no risk, unsless you are regularly sawing or grinding the pieces. Seems like a case of taking a little bit of knowledge out of context to create FUD.

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