Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (Almaviva, ando, Beakybird, Albert Brighten, 25 invisible), 2,009 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1377066 - 02/18/10 05:13 AM Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP?  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Bunneh Offline
Full Member
Bunneh  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Berlin
Hi all,

I know the acoustic vs. digital debate is a complete minefield, and I'm really not trying to find out which is "better" in some way. But here's my situation:

I currently have a Roland HP-203 with high-end headphones (Senn HD600) and love the sound of it. I've always planned to buy a nice Grand in the next 2-3 years (playing for 1.5 years now) and keep this digital around for nighttime, hideous-sounding technique and fingering practice, scales etc. - Out of respect for my neighbors and significant other.

But my living circumstances have changed, and I won't have room for a Grand for another 4-5 years and I don't think I'll be happy with only the DP in this time, as I really think my teacher's Boston grand has so much more potential.

So I'm thinking of buying a decent but not high-end upright to last me the next 4 years. Something like a Kawai K-6, Haessler 124, Yamaha YUS5, etc. Preferably used, so I don't take too much of a hit when selling it again in a few years. It doesn't really matter if it's closer to 5k or 10k.

... but! I've always heard how much more refined Grands are compared to uprights, and am wondering if the DP doesn't have a nicer sound overall, even if it's digital. Is a "real" but unsatisfying sound compared to the sampled Steinway which I really love in my HP-203 still something one can fall in love with? Does a $5k upright offer enough dynamic range and Grand-like touch to be a serious leap in practice *quality* over a digital which satisfies me?

Opinions please and thanks in advance for reading my wall of text!


aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#1377078 - 02/18/10 05:36 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: Bunneh]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
I wouldn't go for these big acoustic uprights if you are going bigger because it might be better for technique. A K3 or a U1 would be just fine and there is a good used market for these pianos that could allow you to both find a nicely priced used one and sell it again later without a great loss.

You will find yourself drawn to playing your acoustic at times of the day when it is possible and you will find your playing on your teacher's Boston grand improved and going faster.

Finally, if your horizon for buying a grand really has to do with living space rather than economics, you might be surprised how you can fit a grand into a small space and a space not so much larger than an upright, especially an upright not placed directly against a wall. If you have the money, you could consider getting a grand sooner rather than later. For example, a Kawai RX-2: good value for money, nice sound, great action allowing you to articulate to your heart's desire, etc. On the piano forum you can read about the most improbably large grand pianos fit into smallish rooms to the delight of the owner/player.

Life is short. Treat yourself to an acoustic grand piano with a good action. Alternating between it and your Roland will be illuminating and pleasurable. Who knows what the future will bring and where you will be in five years? If you buy the grand now, you can enjoy it for the next five years and no one can take that experience away from you!

#1377146 - 02/18/10 08:37 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: theJourney]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
aristharcus Offline
Junior Member
aristharcus  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
Oviedo, Spain
Last Saturday I was testing some DPs at the store before ordering a new Yamaha CLP-370. First I tried a CLP-330 and then, just for comparing, I went directly to test an acoustic Yamaha P-121 (around 6,000 Euros list price in Spain). What a surprise. The P-121 was better but not “a lot” better and in any case NOT 4,000 Euros better. After 20 years since I bought my Clavinova CLP-360 I realized that the evolution of DPs has been enormous.

My point of view is that it’s difficult to justify the price of an upright acoustic piano when compared to the recent developments in high-end digital pianos. If I were in your shoes, I would go directly for the grand. That’s another league.


Actual piano: Yamaha CLP-370
------------------------------------------
Currently working on:
Chopin’s Nocturne Op.9 No.2 (final polishing)
Chopin’s Nocturne Op.27 No.1 (about 25% of it)
Chopin’s Waltz Op.69 No.2 (about 15% of it)
#1377151 - 02/18/10 08:45 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: aristharcus]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Bunneh Offline
Full Member
Bunneh  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Berlin
Thanks for the great answers so far, guys!

I used my lunch break to check the Bechstein House here in Berlin and the uprights didn't really captivate me. The Bechstein Classic 124 was nice, but costs as much as a RX-3, and it didn't really blow me away, especially at €16k new. The A-228 Grand on the other hand... whistle

The problem with space is also somewhat serious, we live in a 2-room apartment and the Grand would have to fit into the 22m² (230 sq.ft.)living room along with a 3-person couch, a 50" plasma AND my digital...

I don't see how that would be possible and even if it were, how that would be fair towards the missus.

Going to check out some more uprights before making any kind of decision, but it's not looking good.


aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1377158 - 02/18/10 08:55 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: Bunneh]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
aristharcus Offline
Junior Member
aristharcus  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
Oviedo, Spain
>>>
The Bechstein Classic 124 was nice, but costs as much as a RX-3, and it didn't really blow me away, especially at €16k new
>>>

Exactly, this is the problem. To really appreciate a quantum leap from a good DP you need to spend some strong money.

With your available space I understand very well your requirements. How about testing a CLP-380, or, at the risk of needing to open a umbrella, what about testing a Yamaha Avantgrand N-3?

Viele Grüsse aus Spanien smile



Actual piano: Yamaha CLP-370
------------------------------------------
Currently working on:
Chopin’s Nocturne Op.9 No.2 (final polishing)
Chopin’s Nocturne Op.27 No.1 (about 25% of it)
Chopin’s Waltz Op.69 No.2 (about 15% of it)
#1377213 - 02/18/10 10:42 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: aristharcus]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Volusiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by aristharcus
>>>what about testing a Yamaha Avantgrand N-3?


If space is an issue and you want the action of a real grand, the upright N2 has the same real grand action as the N3 and the same CFIIIS sampled sound like the N3, but in a small, upright design. It's going to be more than $5K, however. But since it's a digital, maybe you can sell your old digital to add to the fund to shoot for the N2.

#1377218 - 02/18/10 10:49 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: Volusiano]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Bunneh Offline
Full Member
Bunneh  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 400
Berlin
The N2 is actually an interesting option I hadn't considered, but a) I can't sell it to fund the eventual grand because I need a digital too and it won't hold it's value that well and b) The list price is €11k, which is really a bit too much for what it is... (To me, without having played one)


aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1377228 - 02/18/10 11:02 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: Bunneh]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Bunneh
Hi all,

I know the acoustic vs. digital debate is a complete minefield


What makes you think that? grin

Quote
I currently have a Roland HP-203 with high-end headphones (Senn HD600) and love the sound of it. I've always planned to buy a nice Grand in the next 2-3 years (playing for 1.5 years now)


I would take it from that statement that your desire for a grand piano is not based on your technique being limited by anything short of that. It's an itch that will be there even if you scratch it momentarily with an uppercrust vertical that has plenty of dynamic response, a big menu of timbres, and more than enough headroom to grow as a player. Factor in also that the sound of an acoustic in your living environment (especially in the case of a vertical) will be an unknown variable until it arrives there whereas the sound of your digital through good phones is dependable wherever it is.

If you were just looking for something on which to accelerate your learning curve as a player I would advise you to get a good used U series Yamaha, K series Kawai, or Euro-made equivalent. Any of those would supply you a very workable two-piano solution to become proficient on both digitals and acoustics. However, from reading your post, my instinct tells me you've got the grand fever and that your situation is not based on practicality. Unless the fever goes away on its own, you'll be trading out until you have one. On every trade-out of a new acoustic you'll lose significant money.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1377245 - 02/18/10 11:20 AM Re: Does a 5k upright offer a lot over a nice upper midrange DP? [Re: Bunneh]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Volusiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by Bunneh
The N2 is actually an interesting option I hadn't considered, but a) I can't sell it to fund the eventual grand because I need a digital too and it won't hold it's value that well and b) The list price is €11k, which is really a bit too much for what it is... (To me, without having played one)


I wouldn't worry about list prices for now and just try both the N3 and N2 out for comparison purposes so you know all your options. Who knows, maybe you'll like the N3 enough to consider it as a long term alternative to an acoustic grand. That way, you won't have to worry about selling anything and losing money when you move to a bigger space. If you buy an acoustic upright for now, you'd still have to sell it later, and I doubt if acoustic uprights hold their values very well either.

Although it's a grand design, the N3 very compact at only 4 feet long (1.2m) that you may be able to fit in your apartment if you sell your current digital (since you wouldn't need it anymore) to reclaim some more space.




Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai or Yamaha for classical music?
by James Guo. 06/27/17 10:47 PM
I hope I'm still playing...
by Retsacnal. 06/27/17 10:02 PM
Playing Some (Not All) Movements of a Piece?
by ClsscLib. 06/27/17 08:13 PM
Should I give up piano lessons
by dat77. 06/27/17 08:10 PM
Schubert impromptu in A flat major op. 90
by Tuvdun574647. 06/27/17 05:25 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,493
Posts2,639,629
Members88,206
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0