Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
58 registered members (cmb13, Agent88, CadenzaVvi, beeboss, Chris Warren, all18piano, Alfonser, 17 invisible), 1,171 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137632
08/02/07 07:43 AM
08/02/07 07:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Home
learningeveryday Offline OP
Full Member
learningeveryday  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Home
Hi friends at piano world,

I recently got my Steinway B and I just realize that the middle pedal doesn't work, no sustain at all. So I mess around with the pedal which bring me to more problem. Now when I release the right pedal, not all the dampers goes down, some notes are left sustain when I'm not pressing anything. I'm not very good at explain the situation, but I hope you guys have an idea. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...when I press the soft pedal, than right pedal, the problem comes back, my guess is one of the pedal is not in its place.

Also, I see that one of my damper is crook so it's rubbing against another damper when I play that notes (it's the F in the bass rubbing against F#)

I'm thinking paying a tech to solve these problem but not if it's something I can work out myself (with you help of course)

Thanks in advance


MEOW
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137633
08/02/07 11:17 AM
08/02/07 11:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 790
Chapel Hill, NC
C
CozyWriter Offline
500 Post Club Member
CozyWriter  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 790
Chapel Hill, NC
Hmmm... That sounds a little bit like trying to give a hybrid car a tuneup. Really: there's NOTHING under the hood that a "back yard mechanic" can touch without causing more problems than fixing.

Call the tech. For the few dollars it costs, you'll sleep better!


Inspiration is the act of pulling a chair up to the writing desk.
Pramberger JP-185 (a 6'1" mahogany-red Grand)+ Glenn Gould-ish piano chair (no cushion)
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137634
08/02/07 02:18 PM
08/02/07 02:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,191
Old Hangtown California
G
Gene Nelson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gene Nelson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,191
Old Hangtown California
New SS-B? Congradulations.
Movers recently delivered it to your home?
Piano movers are notorious for assembling the lyre incorrectly when they set up the piano.
Don't call them back to fix it.
If this is the case the fix could be easily done by you tuner/tech.
Leave it alone and the problem/fix could remain simple.


RPT
PTG Member
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137635
08/02/07 02:30 PM
08/02/07 02:30 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,933
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,933
Maryland/DC/No. VA
What Gene Said!


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137636
08/02/07 02:35 PM
08/02/07 02:35 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,511
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,511
Victoria, BC
It seems to me that any mechanical problems arising in a Steinway B are worthy of the attention of a good technician. Why would anyone think otherwise?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137637
08/02/07 02:38 PM
08/02/07 02:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,546
US
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member
sophial  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,546
US
Keep in mind that the middle pedal is the sostenuto, not the sustain-- so your initial post is confusing. Absolutely, get a tech or the dealer to look at this and don't try to fix it yourself. You may create a much worse problem!

Sophia

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137638
08/02/07 02:47 PM
08/02/07 02:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,285
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,285
Lexington, Kentucky
Quote
Originally posted by MOJOJOJO:
I'm thinking paying a tech to solve these problem but not if it's something I can work out myself (with you help of course)
Forgive me for not remembering, Mojojojo, but did you buy your piano from a dealer or a private party?

If the former, simply call the dealer and explain the problem, and he/she should send out a tech promptly to fix the pedals at no cost to you.

I agree you don't want to deal with the movers about it. If they couldn't set it up correctly the first time they are unlikely to do so the second.


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137639
08/02/07 06:07 PM
08/02/07 06:07 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChickGrand  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
Sounds to me like the rod that goes from the sostenuto pedal to the sostenuto rail is not properly seated at that point where it connects to the rail, and that it's probably bound up, forcing the sostenuto rail too close to the lips on the damper flanges, so those lips can't clear it and return to rest. If that rod is removed during transport, it's not easy to see up through that small hole in the keybed to get it's notch back in that arm that causes the sostenuto rail to pivot. I wouldn't touch it without having plenty of experience in a lot of phases of piano work. It requires full removal of the action to properly sort this out and be certain any damage from such binding is taken care of. The sostenuto mechanism is actually elegantly simple, but its adjustment takes a bit of knowledge and skill. As does repairing it, if damaged. Unless you're very familiar with what is involved, the risk of further damage is in the thousands of $ for what otherwise might be a routine inexpensive tech visit.

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137640
08/02/07 06:40 PM
08/02/07 06:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
Mr. Kia Offline
Full Member
Mr. Kia  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
You'll need a hammer, chissel, roll of duct tape and a blow torch. Now put them all away and call your technician. No offense but I have to ask, do you know the proper technique for using the middle pedal? There are many experienced players, in my experience, that do not. Call the tech. Good luck.


Piano Technician
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137641
08/02/07 06:58 PM
08/02/07 06:58 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChickGrand  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Kia:
... No offense but I have to ask, do you know the proper technique for using the middle pedal?...
That question passed through my thoughts as well, but his dampers aren't all seating when the pedals are all at rest, so it's not an issue of having some notes sustained with the middle pedal and mistaking that for dampers not going back to rest. That pedal's certainly not an obvious one for how it works, since you don't just depress it to engage it, the way you do with the others but instead actually have to engage it only at the right moment when the right keys are already depressed beforehand.

I tend to encourage people to learn how to tune or do repairs if they have mechanical skills and patience and a bit of intelligence. But in this case, even if those are the case here, I suggest calling a tech rather than risk perhaps $5,000-$6,000 in further damage while *learning* when a tech might put it right for $100 or $150 or a little more. Surgical interns don't start with open-heart surgery.

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137642
08/02/07 07:04 PM
08/02/07 07:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
Mr. Kia Offline
Full Member
Mr. Kia  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
What got me wondering was that first the middle pedal wasn't working, he messed with it, then it was holding up dampers. Sounds to me like he raised the pedal rod adjusting cap nut too high.


Piano Technician
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137643
08/02/07 07:24 PM
08/02/07 07:24 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChickGrand  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
I thought about that too, since those lips on the damper flanges are seldom so uniform that they either all stick or all fail to engage. Usually, if the height's off, some stick and many don't. or they stick or fail haphazardly (though not actually randomly). The trick is to get it adjusted so they all work when it's depressed and all release when you let off. The position of that rod is a "Goldilocks" thing. Got to be just right to get it within the zone that tolerates some slop in the damper lip edges. What I didn't see here was any mention of having adjusted anything, but simply just having tried to use it. Makes me think that on setup, the delivery people got the rod unseated or improperly seated. I wouldn't think they'd have gotten into the keybed cavity to make any adjustment. But they just *might* have loosened the stop on the lever underneath the key bed that activates the rod too much and allowed the rod to slip, and either not gotten the rod back into the notch properly before tightening that stop (if they even did that), resulting in the rail lever arm not properly engaged. I've seen this happen on delivery and fixed it afterwards on my own piano after a move. The reason for those non-returning dampers *was* one of those things that was not apparent at all without fully removing the action. In my case, that rod was so bound up, it'd broken. So I made a new one. Five years ago and still functioning perfectly now.

The principle of the thing is wonderfully simple. And it's handy to have the thing be so easy to engage for all the keys, by depressing the right damper pedal, then the sostenuto, to see them all engage or figure out which ones are not, and to see when you let off, if they all then go to rest. The hard part is getting that rail correctly angled and situated fore and aft, with the adjustment screws, relative to the keybed so that all those tabs on the flanges are engaged or disengaged appropriately within the pivoting range of that rail. The adjustment is not necessarily all that obvious without some real thought, and even then, it's only relatively simple if one is not dealing with uneven wear on those tabs on the damper flanges. All in all, not a beginner project.

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137644
08/02/07 07:34 PM
08/02/07 07:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
Mr. Kia Offline
Full Member
Mr. Kia  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
Mojo,
What did you mean by "so I mess around with the pedal"?


Piano Technician
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137645
08/02/07 09:40 PM
08/02/07 09:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,191
Old Hangtown California
G
Gene Nelson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gene Nelson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,191
Old Hangtown California
"Sounds to me like the rod that goes from the sostenuto pedal to the sostenuto rail is not properly seated at that point where it connects to the rail, and that it's probably bound up, forcing the sostenuto rail too close to the lips on the damper flanges, so those lips can't clear it and return to rest."
_________________________________________________
There is no rod that directly connects the sostenuto pedal to the sostenuto rail on the Steinway B. The Monkey is what engages the sostenuto rail. In addition, on most pianos the pedal rod engages the trap lever which pivots and moves an additional rod that penetrates the key bed.


RPT
PTG Member
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137646
08/02/07 10:07 PM
08/02/07 10:07 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChickGrand  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
I wasn't referring the rod that connects the pedal to the lever under the keybed, but the "rod" (or what you are calling "monkey") that is activated to pivot the rail when that underlever is moved by the rod that *does* connect the pedal to the underlever. I realize it's not just a rod, though to us laymen, that's essentially the purpose that part serves, but I'd never have pulled a "monkey" out of a hat. I completely agree on rereading my phrasing above that I'm totally unclear on that point and that the obvious result is the interpretation you took away from my wording. whome

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137647
08/02/07 10:28 PM
08/02/07 10:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
Mr. Kia Offline
Full Member
Mr. Kia  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 179
Northeast, USA
That should read "pulled a pitman out of a pail." Insert smiley face.


Piano Technician
Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137648
08/02/07 10:34 PM
08/02/07 10:34 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChickGrand  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
Every time I've been on the creeper under the piano, I've thought how like the Pittman arm on the old '65 Cadillac steering rack those levers are and wondered if they properly could be called that. laugh

Re: Steinway Pedal and Damper Problem #137649
08/02/07 11:53 PM
08/02/07 11:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Home
learningeveryday Offline OP
Full Member
learningeveryday  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Home
Hi, thanks for reply,
I messed around with the pedal by turning the rod thinking that was the way to remove them and ended up with the some dampers not coming down. I think I've solved that problem by turning the rods with the number side facing the end of the piano (maybe that was it). Now the soft pedal and sustain pedal works fine like before, but the middle pedal is not. I did call my tech and he said pedal regulation would be free as long as there's other service, I am planing to have him take a look at it next time he's tuning my piano.

I purchased the piano from a private party.

Thanks again


MEOW

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

New In Our Store!
New In Our Store!
key racks with hand sanitizer
Attn: Piano Teachers, Music Teachers, Studios!

A rack made from actual piano keys, with individual hand sanitizer for each student!
Tons more music related products in our online store!
New Topics - Multiple Forums
"Advanced Fingering" and Playing HUGE intervals?!
by MacMorrighan. 09/22/18 12:15 AM
broken yamaha p-105
by tad105. 09/21/18 09:56 PM
daily planners for tunings
by musicbased. 09/21/18 02:58 PM
A visit to Cunningham Piano
by Sanfrancisco. 09/21/18 12:56 PM
kimball vs sohmer
by luisdent. 09/21/18 12:56 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics187,427
Posts2,747,147
Members91,062
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1