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Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: keyboardklutz] #1372386
02/13/10 05:24 AM
02/13/10 05:24 AM
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wr Offline
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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Chopin himself used Cramer and Moscheles.


I think some of Moscheles' op. 70 are thought to be the inspiration for some of his own; it's a good set, regardless. And he also taught Clementi etudes.

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Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Mark_C] #1372388
02/13/10 05:33 AM
02/13/10 05:33 AM
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I agree that you need these skills to be able to play them, but weren't the Etude's designed to master that particular skill? I wouldn't look for an alternative, just keep trying until you can play one. I can only play a few (Op.10 No.12, Op.25 No.2, Op.10 No.3 and 'Trois nouvelles études' no 1) - their the 'easier' Etudes. I don't mean there easy to play, but quite a portion easier than the rest of them. Good Luck!


Currently working on...
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu in C sharp minor Op.66
Mozart - Piano Sonata in E flat K.282
Liszt - Romance in E minor "O pourquoi donc" S.196
Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Samuel1993] #1372406
02/13/10 07:40 AM
02/13/10 07:40 AM
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Well, it's a good thing Alkan denoted Le Chemin de Fer as just another technical study etude and not really a "serious" piece! wink And it's difficult, but easier than Op. 76 No. 3 (which I think is slightly even LESS interesting musically). If you use a good fingering, the left hand in the climax isn't too awfully bad.

Mark C, I see what you are talking about. Of course you need some knowledge of the skill the etude is working, but the etude can help you really perfect it. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Orange Soda King] #1372424
02/13/10 08:45 AM
02/13/10 08:45 AM
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I sometimes think Chopin set himself the challenge of composing the etudes as demonstrations of a particular skill, not as a preparatory exercise for it, and that the "study," etude, in each was for Chopin himself in composition and not necessarily for some future pianist in technique.


Slow down and do it right.
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Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: -Frycek] #1372428
02/13/10 08:55 AM
02/13/10 08:55 AM
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New York City
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I believe Kreisler once said - to paraphrase poorly - that the Chopin etudes were for developing technique, and the Liszt etudes were for displaying technique. Interesting idea, and sorry if I'm not attributing this correctly.

I know someone who performs all 24 as a set, and before learning them, went through all the Cortot preparatory exercises.


Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: -Frycek] #1372459
02/13/10 10:01 AM
02/13/10 10:01 AM
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Melbourne
Seabelle Offline
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Originally Posted by -Frycek
I sometimes think Chopin set himself the challenge of composing the etudes as demonstrations of a particular skill, not as a preparatory exercise for it, and that the "study," etude, in each was for Chopin himself in composition and not necessarily for some future pianist in technique.


I might be wrong, but it seems to me like they're a bit of both. They all seem to present a specific challenge to the performer, but are also obviously designed to be enjoyed as performance pieces.


Two shadas at noon.
Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: wr] #1372465
02/13/10 10:08 AM
02/13/10 10:08 AM
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London, UK (though if it's Aug...
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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Chopin himself used Cramer and Moscheles.


I think some of Moscheles' op. 70 are thought to be the inspiration for some of his own; it's a good set, regardless. And he also taught Clementi etudes.
Yes. Moscheles' op 70 are still highly regarded.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Samuel1993] #1372566
02/13/10 12:30 PM
02/13/10 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Samuel1993
I agree that you need these skills to be able to play them, but weren't the Etude's designed to master that particular skill?.....

Maybe they were, but I always thought they were more to exhibit the skill than to develop it.

Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: -Frycek] #1372567
02/13/10 12:31 PM
02/13/10 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by -Frycek
I sometimes think Chopin set himself the challenge of composing the etudes as demonstrations of a particular skill, not as a preparatory exercise for it, and that the "study," etude, in each was for Chopin himself in composition and not necessarily for some future pianist in technique.

Exactly what I thought.

Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Seabelle] #1372568
02/13/10 12:33 PM
02/13/10 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Seabelle
Originally Posted by -Frycek
I sometimes think Chopin set himself the challenge of composing the etudes as demonstrations of a particular skill, not as a preparatory exercise for it, and that the "study," etude, in each was for Chopin himself in composition and not necessarily for some future pianist in technique.

I might be wrong, but it seems to me like they're a bit of both. They all seem to present a specific challenge to the performer, but are also obviously designed to be enjoyed as performance pieces.

I don't think the two of you are disagreeing, just talking about somewhat different things.

I would guess that Frycek will agree with what you said. I certainly agree 100% with all that the two of you said, except that I think the "both" that you referred to aren't the same two things that she talked about, and it seems like you thought they were.

These things are subtle -- and therefore very interesting. smile

Re: Alternative to Chopin [Re: Horowitzian] #1372782
02/13/10 05:29 PM
02/13/10 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Chopin: There IS no alternative. grin

Apologies, I'm feeling rather festive tonight, to borrow argerichfan's term. laugh


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Music is my best friend.


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