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Hey slowpogo, I'm not going to argue with you. Talk to an accountant about how small business expenses work and it will make sense in terms of a net wage when you are self-employed.

In Australia the average wage is now approaching $60,000, which would mean a piano teacher would need a minimum weekly earn during school weeks of $1700 simply to gross that amount (after the goods and services tax is deducted). And I don't know any teacher at all who grosses that kind of money. And that's the average wage, nothing at all outrageous.

That's fine... I understand what overhead is, but it seems you wouldn't really have any as a piano teacher, in the traditional sense. Simply through your normal course of living, as someone with a piano and a dwelling, you already spend all the necessary $ to pursue your enterprise. And you would be spending that money even with a different job. What else do you need to pay for, some Post-its and a few pens? That's why it seemed pretty much any money you make will be discretionary in that context.

In theory, I could start teaching lessons out of my home right now. And I really can't think of any money I would need to spend to do that, beyond what I already do. They come, I lead them to the piano, I teach, they give me $. It would simply be money in my pocket (minus the taxes). There's nowhere for 55% of it to go, other than wherever I want.

I'm not familiar with the exchange rate for Australia/US dollars, but in the US, the average personal income is about $32,000. I guess it speaks more to my own meager circumstances ;), but making that much $, as my own boss, working less than full time, seems almost like a dream. I never said a piano teacher would be rich, it just seemed they could make a pretty decent living, working fewer hours than most people to make that same amount, and without the hassles of being a wage-slave. And there probably are some very successful ones out there who make more than that $32k.

Anyway, I don't want to argue either, let's leave it at that. Cheers!

Of course the cost of living varies widely in the US, but it's still fun to discuss.

I just started lessons and it's $30 for a 45 minute lesson. (Central North Carolina)

I have a business I run out of my home, and I can think of a few expenses a piano teacher teaching in her own home would have.

-Business permit
-Business property taxes (on pianos/equipment)
-Liability insurance (Homeowners insurance doesn't cover people that are coming to your home for home businesses.)
-I would assume more upkeep on the piano
-Advertising
-Printing for rates/policies/applications etc
-Accountant to do their taxes
-Health insurance (very expensive for someone self employed)
-No employer contributing to a retirement fund
-No paid vacation or sick days

Not to mention the fact that just having people coming in and out of their home is a inconvenience. You have to make a point to keep things picked up and clean and it's not an area that can be used by the household while they are working.

For me personally, when I bought my home, I had to buy something that had extra space to fit my business. Sure, some may just work in their livingroom, but others may have bought a house with an extra room to house the music stuff. Know what I mean?

For my business (nothing to do with music), I pay about 35% of my GROSS in just income taxes. That doesn't include property tax.

Well, the last three are things I've never had through a job (health insurance has been available but it was like 40% of my paycheck, so no-go) so I naturally do not expect them. Accountants are optional, most people I know do their advertising for free (fliers at music stores/campuses, craigslist etc) and most of their students come from word-of-mouth anyway...some printouts from the computer or copies are an expense I guess, but pretty negligible. I don't know, still doesn't seem too bad to me, apart from business permits/taxes which I'm not familiar with and could change my opinion somewhat.

As far as the other factors, my teachers have always had a dedicated music room, but I think even if they stopped teaching they would keep it that way, it's just important to them. I would enjoy the added life of people in my house, and I try to keep things neat anyway so no problem there..

Not to ruffle any feathers but, here and elsewhere in my life, it seems many people with a small business make a big point of saying how difficult it is and barely worth it...makes me wonder why many of those people do it! I know others who think it's A-OK and would never go back to a wage job. I think there is a wider range of experience out there than posts on this forum would indicate. As long as your income expectations were not grand and you knew what you were getting into (and presumably were up for the challenges and ready to tolerate some possible minor inconveniences), it still has nice potential. And if you have added income from playing gigs (the majority of teachers probably do), so much the better.

Howard Co, MD
Flute teacher at our house $45 / hour session.
Piano teacher at our house $90 / hour session. I kind of thought this was too much, but DW really likes the teacher, so we'll give her an opportunity to prove herself for four lessons.

This needs to be a different thread: Home Business 101.

Or even just Small Business 101.

Slowpogo, the conversation you are having is about discounting the things that need to be accounted for when being a responsible business person. You are saying that piano teachers shouldn't use professional accounting services, that they shouldn't spend any money in professional development in either courses, memberships or subscriptions, that they don't need to purchase music, that they don't have instrument maintenance costs, that they shouldn't factor in the cost of an extra room (in their house) or renting a room (If there is not adequate space in their home for a teaching room), that the infrastructure they pay for (phones, insurances, office equipment, chairs for people to sit on while waiting, desks, and so forth) is expense that would have been incurred in the course of living any other kind of life, let alone the expense of a second piano or digital pianos, or other technology (depending on the kind of pedagogical approach used by the teacher).

That might be your world view! But it's not good business, or good accounting. To run a business well you need to understand your costs in order to be able to calculate whether you are running at a profit or a loss. Doesn't matter which business you are in.

But once you understand how your income and costs relate to one another you can then make an informed decision about the benefits of waged or self employment.

Edit: deleted, I think we are at an impasse and should leave this alone now. But thanks, I will think about what you've written. Peace!

Is there anyone from Ontario, Canada that can give me an idea on the price of lessons?

Thanks.