Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Hailun - my personal experience

I finally got to play Hailun grands, and I wanted to share my impressions with people here. I had heard and read a lot about these pianos on here, and I must admit that I have always been a bit skeptical as to whether they are just really good bang for the buck or rather really good instruments regardless of price.

I also want to say that I do not seek to attack anyone on here, be they Hailun owners or not. My opinion is honest and unbiased. I speak for no dealer. However, it is my opinion only.

After all the hype that's been surrounding Hailun, I was mighty curious what these pianos were all about. I and a friend of mine who is currently looking for a grand went to a dealer who carries Hailun and lots of used Yamahas.

The first grand that we tried was the HG 218. It looks impressive, and the price was low for a grand of that size. The dealer pointed out that it is made from "all German parts" and that it was "assembled in China." To my knowledge, that is not true. It is actually built in China, not just assembled. I did not understand the dealer's shyness about this. The next thing was that the dealer claimed they were all hand-built in very limited numbers every year. In fact, it sounded as if the dealer was talking about a Steingraeber rather than a Hailun. Some of the parts are indeed German which I think bodes well. However, I took a look at the soundboard, and much to my surprise the German soundboard had really wide annular growth rings, less than 10 per inch. I am sure that people here will point out that the growth rings have little to do with the sound quality and that sound depends on many other factors. Maybe that's true, but maybe... you know.... that might not be so true. Even though this piano had a Strunz soundboard, it was not the premier boards from Strunz that the more expensive makers pick. I mean, there is a reason why this grand is cheaper than others. And the reason is apparent: Cutting corners! This Strunz soundboard was third or fourth tier in terms of objective wood quality. In that context, to me it doesn't matter where the wood comes from, and the "Made in Germany" is actually meaningless. I'd rather see some soundboard from Mongolia in this grand with nice and tight rings instead of this bottom-tier Strunz soundboard.
That to me raises some questions: Even though there are "German" parts in the piano, do these German suppliers actually have different levels of quality that they sell to different piano makers for different prices? With the soundboard it's easy to tell: Yes! Just use your eyes and look! With the other parts, I cannot tell.

The Hailun's action was nice and beefy, a good feel, but I missed the tactility of a good Renner action. There was a Schimmel grand next to the Hailun that was just such a pleasure to play. The Hailun sounded OK. It was properly tuned, so there was no distraction from that angle. However, the treble just was twangy and lackluster. No real sparkle, no color. No gorgeous treble to die for.

Maybe it was properly prepped or not. Who knows. Many of the used Yamaha grands in the same size (C6, C7) were actually much nicer at the same price point, even though they were 20 years or so old. They for sure weren't prepped, but they conveyed something that grabbed me. The Hailun absolutely did not. We then tried other Hailun grands and uprights, and none of them spoke to us. They sounded kind of generic. There was an old unrestored Steinway M in the corner. Even though it sounded awful, you could instantly hear that there was musical potential in it. Remnants of that gorgeous Steinway treble of the older Ms. A good candidate for rebuilding.

Later, we stopped by at another place and played a Walter grand that my friend had already played before and that she would love to buy. Oh my, a difference between night and day. That piano had so much character. A distinct musical voice! If it were me to make a purchase decision like that, I'd rather spend twice as much money on an instrument that I really love rather than save money and have to put up with a mediocre piano.

So, what's the upshot? Honestly, I don't get all the excitement on Hailun. Yes, they seem like extremely good value for the money. However, they just left me cold. Sorry, I wished I had a more enthusiastic story to tell.

If the world were perfectly arranged, we would all have perfectly prepared semi-concert grands in our spacious music rooms. (I'd settle for one of Del's forthcoming 6'7"ers;-)) Unfortunately budget has a way of contraining/influencing choices.

SeilerFan & FogVilleLad

Your checks are in the mail.

Seiler:

I didn't know that Charles Walter grands were selling now for only about $ 22,500, the price range of the Hailun....

Norbert

Norbert, I do not know where you take that number from. I have not and I will not talk about the dealers or the prices that they offered on their pianos. That's something that my friend has to decide if she buys a particular piano.
Again, this post was meant to reflect my experience with a piano I hadn't tried before. It's part of my personal learning curve. Nothing more and nothing less.

Seiler:

I appreciate your report but without attention to completely different pricings between pianos, it doesn't mean much.

It would have also made more sense to compare pianos with at least similiar amount of prep work and in similiar condition.

Rest assured if you would have chosen our own 218 grand prepped several times over by a tech who also happens to own a Fazioli grand, chances are your conclusion about these pianos might just have been a bit more revealing.

Of course using the might of a 7' grand against a smaller piano by someone else isn't exactly fair either - so, should you be able to come to us - please choose a "comparable" size out of those available on our showroom....

Hailun of course is not a make expounding on the "German parts" story, that's bullcrap - surprised the dealer chose to go this way....

Now, we all know that Charles Walters are very nice pianos.

Theses pianos stand in their own right and being compared to anything Chinese including Hailun is certainly an new honour....

However, C.W. cost quite a bit more than the Hailuns, that is unless things have meantime changed a bit - otherwise why not compare the former also to Mason Hamlins, Grotrians, Shigerus and Faziolis of this world?

It is with this in mind that your otherwise interesting and good report becomes slightly flawed for the average consumer.

Should you ever be in the B.C. area, I would very much invite you - or anybody else - to do this comparison once over again.

Besides testing 2 well prepared and very nice pianos each, we would be only to happy to raise prices for Hailun in order to make this comparison at least as fair and equitable as possible!

Norbert

In the two Hailuns I've played, I would describe the sound as "sterile".

I have played Steinways that were not very good. They were not prepped. None of them were in that particular showroom. Generally, I like Steinway. My personal impression was similar to SeilerFan's.


"I also want to say that I do not seek to attack anyone on here, be they Hailun owners or not. My opinion is honest and unbiased. I speak for no dealer. However, it is my opinion only."

-SeilerFan

If a Hailun dealer is guilty of the same transgression as this Steinway dealer I visited, I don't think it is such a big deal. It is unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

I do not think SeilerFan is putting anyone down. In fact, it is nice that time and thought were taken to generate this feedback. It looks to me like SeilerFan is actually trying to contribute. Thats great. This is SeilerFans personal, unfortunate experience.

In regards to the growth rings on the soundboard, I think this has been discussed. Del had very informative post. Perhaps someone could help me resurrect it.

Aha - so they must sound like Faziolis then! That is exactly how I have heard them described by a world-class pianist I happen to know.

SeilerFan's evaluation appears to be a true an honest one as he used as the title for his thread: "Hailun - my personal experience"

A personal experience it is indeed, gathered in the specific environment of one particular dealer's showroom by playing various instruments well or not so well prepped and voiced by that same dealer; nothing more nothing less, a one-off experience with a particular brand compared to some others.

schwammerl.

Sorry, I am really not interested in the self promotion of your business here. What makes you think that you do better or more prep work than the dealer where I played the Hailun? I think this attitude is presumptuous. It is also presumptuous to educate me on how a Hailun will sound if prepped this or that way. I have played many pianos in my life from many makers. Please accept that I was just not impressed.

Seiler:

What you call 'self-promotion' was simply an attempt on my part to make comparisons more equitable.

I don't accuse you of anything sinister here, just a slip of things.

You are entitled to your opinion but this was not an opinion based on fair data. One cannot compare "incomparable" pianos seperated by various modes of preparation and especially considerable price differences between them. Missed anything?

If it makes you feel better, the Hailun 218 at NAMM was also not very well prepped [due to time constraints we heard..] and I personally gave Hailun an earful about it....

There is no reason to become defensive about a test that really is *not* a test. That was the essence of my criticism - it has nothing to do with self-promotion.

The reason I know that this piano was not well set up is that a consientious dealer who knows and is proud of Hailun today doesn't have to tell the "German parts" story.

Hailun has only one story, "it's own".

Demonstration of this story is the piano's tone quality, especially at at price point.

A knowledeable dealer is proud of this, uses it to his advantage and and knows how of set it up to its max.

This, based on your report, did not seem having been the case here.

Your report would have been absolutely perfect would you not have seen fit to go to Charles Walter after and throw it in at last moment.

Why then, if I may ask, did you not march on comparing the Hailun [or Charles Walter]to Steinway, Fazioli, Estonia Mason Hamlin or Seiler?

It would only fit the modus operandi already started?

Norbert

I don't think the Charles Walter throw away para at the end has any bearing on the OP's assessment of Hailun, Norbert.

He had already stated that he was not overly impressed with the Hailuns before he left the showroom and before he played the CW. The opinion is subjective but no less valid for that. Quite clearly he did not like the feel or some elements of the tone.

Since none of us know the prep of the piano he played, or indeed yours, the implied assumption that the dealer prep was worse than yours is clearly based on little or nothing. The fact that the dealer tried to spin German heritage tells us nothing at all about how well the (in-tune) piano was prepped. It just tells us that the dealer was being a fairly typical piano salesman of the type we all know. To make an inference about prep from this is again with real basis.

One could equally well argue that as a player the OP has no agenda, but that as a dealer, you do. Hence dealer bias is perhaps affecting your defence of the brand.

We all know that two people can play the same piano and arrive at entirely different conclusions about it. Which is why internet opinions on tone and feel are almost entirely worthless to the piano shopper. He or she must trust their own ears and fingers.

Rod, you really hurt me with that one. (My T-shirt size is Medium.)

As someone who is still shopping and deciding on a piano to replace the one I have and who has looked very seriously at the Hailun (the 178 and not the 218), I appreciate SeilerFan's post. The dealer where I have played the Hailun's also has a Schimmel on the floor (K 213). That piano just sings. I love it. If I could swing the mid-forties for a piano I'd do it in a minute. Can't swing the mid-forties. If I compare the Hailun to the Schimmel, as I have naturally done, there is no comparison as to which piano I think is superior. But, what I've learned in piano shopping is that budget matters. When I've compared pianos priced similarly to the Hailun, I have to say, I like the Hailun better. For what its worth, the university where I teach (and take my lessons) is in the process of buying two of the 218 Hailuns for spaces where there are receptions and schmoozes--they will also be the public pianos that anyone can play and are replacing older Yamaha uprights. No one is giving up the Boesendorfer in the main recital hall though. My point is that Norbert and Seiler both add valuable perspective--at least to this (nearly decided--yes I am slow--) piano shopper.

We have to be careful that these type posts do not become "brand against brand" type discussions.

I'm sure this is not what Seiler intended and it's certainly not what I'm writing about and have in mind.

We all know that it is possible to play an occasionally un-inspriring Fazioli and be taken next by an incredible Ritmueller. These are the facts.

The reason why these experiences do occur are known to those who have been around pianos for a very long time - we're above this kind of stuff - or at least *should*.....

On the other hand, those who deal with pianos also know that the "law of average" often supports our general assumptions - high end is and will always be high end.

It is the area of consumer grade pianos that is getting increasingly blurred with Hailun being a good example.

It's a make that, like some others, has earned it's new consumer based status being a remarkable piano for money - no more - no less.

This exactly was I read in the posts by many of this make's new owners and I don't remember even one who had compared Hailun to a high[er] end piano during his shopping trip before.

Those who are sincere in wishing to belong to the Premium group of pianos, will do hopefully well having nothing to fear of.

It is encumbant upon them - not the 'poor man on the street' - to foster their position against anything thrown at them in future.

Anything less, could one day become - *the end*.

Norbert

Could you please stop speculating on what I am intending or not? I was just giving my personal impression and saying so frankly. If you haven't realized it, this was a post based on my observations on a Hailun, not a general philosophy of piano making. I am entitled to my observations even though you try to prove that they are faulty or wrong. I don't have the average consumer's/customer's satisfaction in mind (as you do) but I just speak as a musician and lover of pianos. Period.

What makes you think that Norbert has consumer's sartisfaction in mind.

I am sorry that you are being given a hard time for honestly expressing your opinion. You don't deserve the criticism. In fact, you posted quite responsibly.

A crucial point, which Seiler Fan alluded to in his initial post.

SeilerFan
Thanks for the post.
Carl