Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum when a parent requests an interview

For me, some understanding that, among others, teachers of other subjects have also dealt with these issues, would go a long ways toward *some* piano teachers not appearing to think piano teachers are so uniquely burdened, or so uniquely situated in the human condition

I will, oh dear, reiterate - the internet is a written means of communication. Largely, it is communication among relative strangers to each other. It seems to me to be important to qualify one's assertions, as currawong has pointed out. It is important, because there are no other cues besides the written word, to say "some" students are or can be problems, rather than approaching one's answers in a thread as if they apply universally, or even that you yourself apply them to every situation with your students.

I think one of the questions asked earlier, which I haven't seen addressed, is also important - are the views of students and their parents important? If so, it seems to me that many of the posters in this thread have relevant viewpoints for that very reason, so statements about how their participation makes it impossible to discuss the issue seem silly to me.

And I will say, once again (I can be really repetitive) - anything you say here that can be found by, oh, say, a potential student, probably will be. This is a public, in a really big way, forum. As Betty has found out, one need only Google one's user name to find that one's comments on PW come up pretty fast So if some of us have thought your comments might be a little abrasive, some of your potential students may also find them that way.

Of course, it is entirely possible that you and Betty don't want those students any way None of us is a perfect fit for everyone.

Cathy

Thank you, MsAdrienne. I just have an enormous respect for the job my auto mechanic does, and the amount of knowledge it takes to do it. And he's great on the business end, too

Cathy

I heard that a good mechanic is worth their weight in gold. I agree.

"Are the views of students and their parents important?" asked by Cathy.
Yes! Why would the interviewing process not be a 2-way street?
A student and parent come to a teacher for an interview. The goal is to determine if this is a good fit for student and teacher. The teacher must be straight-forward in presenting what she has to offer. Student and/or parent must express what they are looking for and what their needs are. How else can the interview really be effective?

+1, Barb!

This seems so obvious to me that I am truly perplexed at the amount of disagreement that is going on in this thread.

Well, I've worked for several "plastic" people whose tone and body language are well controlled. So I do have to read between the lines, so to speak.

They imply; I infer.

Thanks Currawong. I was thinking about that too - I specifically remember a thread (that I can't find now - argh!) where teachers were lamenting, "why do students stay so long with bad teachers"?

For someone that knows nothing about piano, it can be extremely difficult/impossible to know if your teacher is actually "good". You have no way to evaluate that (especially when this is your first teacher - how can you possibly judge?)

And, you hit on part of what bugs me - there are teachers who give the impression that it's disrespectful to question your teacher, or even consider they may not be excellent. But, we clearly see that NOT all teachers are excellent, or even competent. And, there's no magic way to determine which is which.

Elissa - I don't think you're getting it. The irony is that you are complaining about the lack of respect you get, yet you continue to engage people here in the same manner.

Your response to me starts with "Oh brother" and continues later with (again) "Get over it." Do you honestly not see how ironic that is?

Do you not see how, if you were interested in the slightest in coming to a mutual understanding with the non-teachers here, you might possibly choose less dismissive language? I mean, how would you react if you were trying to discuss something with a student, and they rolled their eyes and muttered, "Oh brother"?

At any rate, I've said my peace. I'm very grateful for the teachers here that are helpful, and have taken the time to explain things, calmly, to use about how their lives work - like Currawong and Kreisler. Thanks guys

Ah, here lies the problem!

1) Parents who flip-flop on their stated goals.
2) Parents who promise to help, but never do.
3) Parents whose piano goals are not the same as their kids' goals.
4) Parents who just want to keep up with the Joneses in the piano department.
5) Parents with unrealistic goals and crazy expectations.
6) Parents who flake out.
7) Parents who are too afraid to talk to you, so they have their kid make the phone calls to reschedule lessons

I can list 80 more problems. From the first three years of teaching piano, I've seen it all.

I was asked why I had deleted my post. Frankly, because it seemed useless. But I'll try to reconstitute it.

This was put forth two years ago when we discussed participation in the Teacher Forum. When a teacher asks her peers for advice, then her colleagues need room to be heard as they are in lesser numbers. By and large this has been respected. Side issues tend to pop up at a later time. In this thread a newish teacher was facing the prospect of an impending interview with trepidation, so that was the case.

If a question is asked involving parents, and if parents can give feedback on what they actually do find important, then surely that is a useful thing to have. There was concern of being judged, and some non-teachers wrote in to say that they were not looking to judge or control: perhaps that can be a reassuring thing?


Roughly this is also what some of us would find important: that the teacher knows what she is doing. When John used the word "leadership" this is what I pictured.

This is the key to where it went funny. Some teachers were addressing the scenario of an interview where the teacher is being challenged, while the reader was picturing the scenario of an interview with a reasonable parent - in that light some attitudes seemed kilter. It only makes sense if you have a matching parental attitude. The actual situation did not involve hostile parents, only the fear that there might be.

On the other hand, here (below) we are no longer talking about an interview, are we?



Does the interview fit into this? Can it help prevent some of this from happening? Anything else?

Anybody done any short posts I can read?

No one is suggesting that students shouldn't ask questions. Students who don't ask questions don't tend to learn all that much, as it turns out. Parents who ask questions are fantastic too!! There is nothing I love more. The interview at the start should be the start of a relationship of exchange of ideas and reflections.

That first interview creates the framework from which both teacher and student can build a relationship of mutual respect. If the teacher stops respecting the student for some reason (maybe the student fails to make any effort) or if the student stops respecting the teacher then the relationship ceases to be productive.

It's obviously a revelation to some participants in this forum that not every student is the ideal and that not every parent is a joy with whom to work. I note that there is a thread in another forum discussing whether or not smoking marijuana enhances one's practice. That was a revelation to me today, and I learned a lot from that discussion thread. As I know nothing about smoking marijuana I didn't contribute to the discussion.

Great start to a list of challenges piano teachers face. But I think you've summed up the most common reasons for problems in on-going progress in the learning process.

LOL!!!!!

ARGHH!!!! The above mentioned things happen which drive us teachers crazy.
But none of it can be predicted at an initial interview, right?
We come to an agreement and begin instruction. Whether or not all heck breaks loose after the interview is another story.
Then we part ways or sit down to regroup.
As John calls it, "the cat and dog thing in the studio" in my opinion can be difficult, if not impossible, to predict.

Speaking only for myself, I participate on this forum to share lessons learned over 30 years of trials and tribulations with other teachers, especially those who are relatively new to the teaching profession. I don't view this as a debating society where we can practice our skills in that department.

From time to time, a problem posted by a parent or adult student reminds me of something one of my parents/students went through and if I have the time, I try to share with them.

Even though those were my original goals, and continue to be my primary goals, I have learned much listening to others on this forum, which is why I voted to keep the teacher's forum open to all.

Because this is a piano oriented forum, it attracts readership from many adult students, and many of them participate with opinions on teaching issues. Many of these suggestions are valuable, however, we should not forget that in the population at large, adult piano students represent less than 5% of all piano students, in fact, probably less than 1% (it's hard to get an accurate number). Most of us deal day in and day out with issues concerning our students' learning and these students are generally grades 2 to 8, with a severe drop off for high school aged students. Folks, primary school students learn differently than secondary school students who learn differently than adults. That's why the public school systems certify teachers for teaching at the different levels.

As we discuss issues, we teachers are primarily thinking of our 7 - 15 year old students, not the occasional adult student. This is not to minimize the importance of how to teach adults, it's just that's not where most of us are coming from.

There are also a number of parents who participate on this forum. Piano*Dad comes to mind as an individual who has provided insightful commentary time after time. Comments such as he provides are extremely valuable to teachers. Keep 'em coming!

Many of us teachers are full-time. We need a living income. Not only do we have on-going business expenses, such as maintaining our instruments (for my studio, 4 tunings a year times 3 pianos at $120 a pop), studio rental, etc., etc., etc. we need to have a living net income. While we can appreciate the Bohemian life-style which artists adore, it doesn't pay the bills. As someone once said, our business is built like a three-legged stool. Musicianship is one leg, teaching skills a second leg, and business acumen is the third leg. Regretfully, many of our music schools do not require any skill learning in either of these two legs, and as a result, we sometimes get less than effective teachers, and teachers who go under financially.

So now, I will climb down from my box. Thanks for listening!

It sure is!

I know that I use the internet as one of my search tools in trying to find a teacher. The web has fast become an advertising media for it has the ability to reach many, many people with only a click away.

I am very cautious about taking seriously what I find on the net, as anybody can put anything out there. I came across a cynic who proclaimed that only bad music teachers advertise on the net for they can't secure clients by any other means. I am sure that there are bad teachers who advertise on the net, but I would never go as far as to make that kind of sweeping generalization and say they 'all' are bad. That's ridiculous, I do think.

OTOH if someone puts something out there that expresses their own personal views, etc., I take it into serious consideration when forming any judgements as to whether this is the kind of person I wish to secure services from.

This is not a private lounge or restricted access forum. It's very public. It gives me lots of useful information. I, personally, love the 'exposure'.

Which, from my own personal situation, is part of the problem. I am finding that most stuido programs are designed for the 'bulk' of their clientele, which happens to be children. This makes perfect sense when one is operating a business. From the adult student's own personal and individual needs, it makes it very difficult for one to not only find instructors that accept adult students but that also have the proper skill set to teach them. I recognize that wasn't your point - but it does get a bit frustrating when I am told that I would benefit from professional instruction, but I can't find anyone to teach (much less someone that I can afford). Add to the situation that I live in rural America and well. . . . .

Sorry - don't want to derail this thread (which I think has already taken a huge detour!), but your comment triggered my thought.





I am sure that if you had your druthers, what you would select to do as a musician could very well conflict with what you need to do as a business person - and what you need to do to keep your business healthy. I own my own business and its not always about what I want to do, but what I need to do.

I also observe that sweeping generalizations can and often do, do an injustice to the participants on both side of the issues. If I insult my clients, it won't be long before I don't have any.

There are people on both sides of the issue who have good working relationships with one another. I still believe, for the most part, that these issues that have been expressed in this thread and elsewhere on the board are not the driving force with most students/teachers.

FWIW, there is too much 'us versus them' going on, and that's really a shame.

I think we can be united in our love of music.

In closing, I wish to thank you for your willingness to listen to the non-teachers in the forums and to acknowledge that some of us have our valid points too. It not only makes good business sense, but its shows maturity and intelligence.

Earlier I started a post beginning with a response to Elissa's reference to not writing about smoking marijuana if you don't do so yourself. I wrote "What if marijuana could talk, and post what it is like to be smoked? We are the weed. Pun intentional."

Two years ago I was told in PMs by teachers that input from non-teachers provides valuable insight. Were it not for that I would have stopped posting here. It makes sense that there is some degree of dialogue since we have intermeshing roles and can learn from each other. What is played out here can have effects out there with individual teachers, parents, and students. Instead of guessing about each other, with each party huddled in their respective corners, maybe we can make some headway. It is also delicate and difficult. If the teacher-parent-student triangle is complex out there, it's doubly complex over here. Deciding when and how to post is not easy, and it is easy to step on one pair of toes while trying to avoid another. Perhaps we can be more forgiving?

In the present matter, a newish teacher was in trepidation at the thought of an impending interview with a parent. There are parents among the members. It is natural for some to want to say "No, I am not out to judge you. I want to see how well you get along with my child, and if you have a plan." It is meant to be reassuring and a gesture of goodwill, naive or not.

That being said, the feedback I got from teachers back then is that when a teacher is asking for advice, it is best to step back in order to not muddy the waters. I think must try to do that most of the time. It's a judgment call.

There are times when such a question also touches on relationships that non-teachers have with teachers, and often there are issues that ought to be addressed. We dealt with this two years ago and one idea was the creation of a sub-thread in such cases where those interested can discuss it. If communications can be ameliorated and some of the problems that teachers commonly experience can be addressed mutually so that "out there" changes start happening, isn't that worthwhile? This is one idea, in any case which might be of interest to newcomers who had not heard of it.

The encouragement to participate notwithstanding, I intend to sharply curtail my activities here in such matters. Fwiw, advice in the direction of letting parents / students know you have something to offer and know what you are doing would be for me the kind of "leadership" I would find reassuring. A leader is more than a boss and I think John used that word.

John, in light of the frustrations being aired, and on the topic of interviews, it struck me that your biannual review is a bit like a twice yearly "interview" which maybe helps everyone stay more on track. It is something that as student I would have liked (or parent), because in my experience one tends to "wonder" instead of asking. A lesson flits by so fast. I have been tempted to mention it.

Best of luck everyone. Irinev, we're all crossing our fingers and hoping it went well.

"The problem is that no one is listening to our viewpoints, only using our viewpoints to continue to aggravate us about having a viewpoint which contrasts to theirs."

This does sadden me a bit. It's true, there are people who behave like this on the forums. I hope you can hear the sincerity in the printed word when I say, "Agree or not, I do hear you."

I do have a list of people whom I've decided it's better not to hear from at all--- but it's short, and very select.

This has been a valuable discussion for an adult student who is about to look for a new teacher. Part of my own astonishment is because I really don't think along the lines that some people who have posted apparently do--- but since the issues are out there, it is better to, at least, understand what they are.

Um - Jeff is quoting Betty and not me - right Jeff?