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Standard piano key height? #1361420
01/30/10 04:26 AM
01/30/10 04:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Manachi Offline OP
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Manachi  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Hey all,

after much thought, I've decided to buy a normal wooden desk as a stand for my Roland rd700gx. Ive found one which is on sale, perfect colour, perfect width, and perfect depth to fit the dp, two audio monitors and a desk based music holder behind it, has sufficient leg/knee room (and is way cheaper than most stands available)

The only issue is it's a little to high, so I'm going to saw some length off the legs. My question is, is there a 'standard' height for the white keys of an accoustic piano? My very old upright at my parents house is 30" (760mm) high ( the white keytops), and it's very comfertable. My table by default brings my DP white key tops to approx 33.85" (860mm) which feels too high. Is there some sort of official guide/standard/average?

Cheers,
manachi

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Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1361445
01/30/10 06:54 AM
01/30/10 06:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,803
Decatur, Texas
Studio Joe Offline
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Studio Joe  Offline
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Decatur, Texas
Look for an adjustable stool. The top of the keys should be level with your elbows when sitting on the stool with shoulders relaxed.


Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax
Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1361450
01/30/10 07:16 AM
01/30/10 07:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 97
S
Sean M. Offline
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Sean M.  Offline
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Posts: 97
Neighborhood of 28 inches. If you're a little higher than that, you can probably compensate by just raising your bench a bit, if that's not too uncomfortable. Important is the height of your elbows relative to the height of the keyboard, and that you're able to sit comfortably and sway from side to side.

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Sean M.] #1361466
01/30/10 08:06 AM
01/30/10 08:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
M
Melodialworks Music Offline
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Melodialworks Music  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
You also want your hips to be higher than your knees. I would suggest going to a piano shop armed with a tape measure. Play a bunch of instruments, find what combination of piano keys height and bench height works for you, take down the measurements and saw away! (I've always had to use an adjustable bench, but this all depends on how tall you are, how close you sit to the keys etc.) The height of the music stand is also important for healthy ergonomics, and (at a certain age) dealing effectively with bifocals!

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Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1361504
01/30/10 10:21 AM
01/30/10 10:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Kansas
S
Sprout Offline
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Sprout  Offline
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Kansas
Okay, I can address this one...

I don't recommend using a normal desk for your Roland. I finally got around to buying a piano stand to move my Roland 700GX from the normal desk. I purchased the On Stage KS7150 Table Top Keyboard Stand.

You can find it here...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EXIMFI...ative=380341&creativeASIN=B000EXIMFI

It's only 2-3 inches shorter, but the difference is huge!!!! It is much more fun to play, and it looks so much better. I keep on getting drawn to my keyboard. I also bought a keyboard bench for me to sit on. Now I'm in dp heaven!

The OnStage is not too expensive, and it holds my Roland very well.

My recommendation, get a real stand. It's worth it.

Those are my 2 cents.

Sprout

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Sprout] #1361571
01/30/10 12:52 PM
01/30/10 12:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Gyro  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
The standard ht. from the floor
to the top surface of the white
keys is 28 to 29 inches. The
ht. from the floor to the top
surface of a solid piano bench
is about 18.5 inches.

Adjustable keyboard stands and
adjustable benches cannot give
these hts.

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Gyro] #1361690
01/30/10 04:14 PM
01/30/10 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
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ChrisA Offline
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ChrisA  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted by Gyro

Adjustable keyboard stands and
adjustable benches cannot give
these hts.


I almost agree. Some keyboard stands cannot give these hts. Some of them have widely spaced adjustment increments so you can't find one that is correct. Measure before you buy. There are enough brands that certainly one will work. Bring a tape measure to the store and know the height from the bottom of your DP to the top of the white keys.

Some stands are continuously adjustable and will not have this problem

Last edited by ChrisA; 01/30/10 04:15 PM.
Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Sprout] #1361731
01/30/10 05:32 PM
01/30/10 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
M
Melodialworks Music Offline
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Melodialworks Music  Offline
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M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
Originally Posted by Sprout
I purchased the On Stage KS7150 Table Top Keyboard Stand.

You can find it here...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EXIMFI...ative=380341&creativeASIN=B000EXIMFI


Who makes that keyboard stand? It doesn't look very strong - spidery legs. Maybe it's just the impression made by the photo.

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1361798
01/30/10 07:27 PM
01/30/10 07:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Kansas
S
Sprout Offline
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Sprout  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Kansas
Yeah it looks like it might be unstable, but it's supposed to hold like 300 some pounds or so. My roland 700 gx feels quite secure. The reviews I've read have been positive too. I'm quite happy with it.

OnStage makes it I guess

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Sprout] #1361820
01/30/10 08:20 PM
01/30/10 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 134
Washington, MO
C
cjsm Offline
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cjsm  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 134
Washington, MO
I have two of the On Stage Table Stands (great price at amazon, btw). On one I have a Kawai MP9500, which weighs about 70 lbs, and its very stable. Anyway, I like my keyboards as low as possible. No keyboard stand I've seen goes low enough for my tastes. (I'm about 5'8"). So I actually used a pipe cutter to cut off an inch or two of the legs on both stands. I lost height adustability, but I got them to the height I want. If I raise the bench high instead, its too uncomfortable, as my (short) legs are stretched to their furthest extent. As it is now, my knees hit the bottom of the keyboard if I sit with my knees really straight, but it doesn't bother me.

Think of pop/rock keyboardists in bands. They play standing and the keyboard is much lower then the typical sitting down position. When I play sitting on my modified stands, my hands are several inches lower than my elbows, which I find is a better angle to play at. But even the height of my elbows compared to my hands is not near as geat as it is for most keyboardists who play standing up.

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: cjsm] #1361979
01/31/10 01:50 AM
01/31/10 01:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Manachi Offline OP
Full Member
Manachi  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated. It sounds like even my upright is 1-2" taller than some. Very handy to know.

I thought about just getting a higher bench/stool, but then my legs/the pedal would be a bit unergonomic. I imagine that must become noticable after hours of playing?

Re a stand vs a desk, I've looked at many options, most stands need to be ordered in here in Sydney, au, but my main issue was that all of them require seperate stands/solution for the speakers (and the sheet music stand) which adds up even more cost. Plus for ideal realism, I'd like the speakers behind the DP which would push out the stand quite far from the wall. So I figured this one nice solid black wooden desk which is just enough to fit dp/monitors/music stand works out cheaper and just as attractive! Now my only concern is how the 'finish' will look after sawing the legs off. (it's not so much legs as it is 'sides', a bit like the casio wooden stands but much deeper. The material is plywood/chipboard type stuff with veneer) any seasoned woodworkers/carpenters/diy'ers know how it would turn out? Here's the desk:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40079218

[Linked Image]




Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1361982
01/31/10 01:56 AM
01/31/10 01:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 744
Denton Texas
LesCharles73 Offline
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LesCharles73  Offline
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Posts: 744
Denton Texas
Try putting some masking tape over the line you intend to cut. That will reduce chipping. Hope this helps!


Les C Deal




Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: LesCharles73] #1362000
01/31/10 02:48 AM
01/31/10 02:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,502
Australia
R
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R0B  Offline
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R
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,502
Australia
A point to bear in mind, is that the desk you show, can take a load of up to 30kg.

Your Roland, weighs 25kg.

If you are using active (powered) monitors, these can easily weigh 10kg, or more, each.


Rob
Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1362077
01/31/10 08:15 AM
01/31/10 08:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
M
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Melodialworks Music  Offline
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M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
Originally Posted by Manachi
T It sounds like even my upright is 1-2" taller than some.



Exactly. That's why I had suggested using a measuring tape. I don't believe that there actually is a standard height for pianos and benches. Also, by creating your own heights, you can taylor the height of each to ergonomically compliment your body. Anything that will contribute to healthy playing and comfort is a good thing.

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1362138
01/31/10 11:45 AM
01/31/10 11:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,502
Australia
R
R0B Offline
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R0B  Offline
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R
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,502
Australia
Also bear in mind, that piano key height, can vary, due to the size, existence, or non-existence of castors.


Rob
Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: R0B] #1362531
01/31/10 07:41 PM
01/31/10 07:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Manachi Offline OP
Full Member
Manachi  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 90
Sydney, Australia
Good points re the height, Melodialworks Music & ROB - thanks! I'll probably match the height of my old upright (or maybe 1/2-1" shorter), because I find myself able to play on that for hours - very comfertable and I'm quite used to it.

Originally Posted by LesCharles73
Try putting some masking tape over the line you intend to cut. That will reduce chipping. Hope this helps!


Wow - fantastic tip, thanks very much LesCharles73 - will definitely do that. My friend has a circular saw, so I think I'll take the 'legs/sides' (and now, masking tape!) around this week for him to help cut them


Originally Posted by R0B
A point to bear in mind, is that the desk you show, can take a load of up to 30kg.

Your Roland, weighs 25kg.

If you are using active (powered) monitors, these can easily weigh 10kg, or more, each.


Hmmm very good point! I weighed the monitors I was planning to use on that desk - Alesis M1 Active MK2 - which are actually light relative to many, including my Mackie HR824's. (Interestingly, the technical specs say they're 9.56kg each, but I weighed them and they're about 8kg each - odd!)

My partner actually has this desk already and I've placed the keyboard and the monitors on the desk (before I started this thread) and it seems to be rock solid, not bending, not budging at all. It has a cross beam support which is directly under the monitors, and the keyboard is wide enough so that it literally goes right out to the edge (and about 1-2cm overhang on each side) , so it SEEMS as though the actual distribution of the weight is in my favour, ie the legs & cross brace appear to be bearing the weight, and the weight is distributed across a very even, VERY wide area and not concentrated in one spot. Perhaps if the keyboard wasn't so wide, or if the weight was positioned directly in the center, it might be more of a problem? Or am I just making excuses? I'm not too experienced in carpentry/weight bearing etc and I don't want to risk my gear, but it DOES appear to be rock solid. Any advice on whether i shoudlnt risk this? Are 'weight loads' greatly underestimated for safety? Would it be likely they're more referring to 30kg on 'any one point'?

Cheers,
Manachi


Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1362537
01/31/10 07:54 PM
01/31/10 07:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
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Melodialworks Music Offline
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Melodialworks Music  Offline
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M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
Originally Posted by Manachi

My partner actually has this desk already and I've placed the keyboard and the monitors on the desk (before I started this thread) and it seems to be rock solid, not bending, not budging at all.


May be fine, initially, but over time may start to sag. Think of bookshelves. We've all seen some that sag in the middle. The weight ratings are there for a reason, methinks.

Lawrence

Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: Manachi] #1362642
01/31/10 09:56 PM
01/31/10 09:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
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ChrisA Offline
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ChrisA  Offline
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Redondo Beach, California
Quote
Now my only concern is how the 'finish' will look after sawing the legs off. (it's not so much legs as it is 'sides', a bit like the casio wooden stands but much deeper. The material is plywood/chipboard type stuff with veneer) any seasoned woodworkers/carpenters/diy'ers know how it would turn out? Here's the desk:


If you saw the legs before you assemble the dessk using a table saw with a fine tooth carbide blade made the plywood yu can avoid chips. If you must use a hand held circular saw to buy the correct blade. The teech should not have much "set" and be finely spaced. DOn't try to follow a line by eye. Clamp a staight edge to the wood and use that as a guide. Just but the saw agaanst the straight edge.

Some chipping can't be avoided.


Look at the under side of the piano. If it is like a Yamaha it will have machine screw threaed inserts for attaching to the stand. If so drill holes in the desk and bolt the DP from the bottom. That will prevent any rocking and make the whole assembly more sturdy and ridgid. You can make over sized holes and use big washers


Don't worry about the low weight limit of the desk. They assume you'd be placing the weight in the center. But you can rig it so the DP touches the desk only at points directly over the legs

That masking tape idea is good. Use the blue tape that comes off easy and apply it such that you will cut the cut with the saw. It may not prevent chips but at least you will not loose them and be able to glue the little bits back on.

Last edited by ChrisA; 01/31/10 09:58 PM.
Re: Standard piano key height? [Re: ChrisA] #1362647
01/31/10 10:08 PM
01/31/10 10:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,082
Virginia, USA
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TimR Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Virginia, USA
I've had the same idea.

At the local office supply store (Staples, in the US) MOST of the desks are more solid than any keyboard stand.

But most of them are also taller. I did find one computer desk that was lower than the rest, stronger than a keyboard stand, and cheaper.


gotta go practice

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