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Hi, I've just joined this forum in hopes of getting some good advice on a adult beginner starting over with piano. I hope this is the correct forum for this question.

Is there a organization or certification for piano teachers? Meaning, is there something when looking for a piano teacher I can ask as credentials to see if they would have the potential of being a good instructor?

This may be a odd question to ask but I play the violin and there you can find many certifications in teaching methods and styles. I didn't know if there was one for piano as well.

The reason I ask is I am looking for a piano teacher in my area but it seems anyone is a piano teacher if they have a piano and will accept a fee. It's harder to find reputable good teachers, or should I say help filter instructors out. I just went through this week with finally canceling lessons for another instrument with a teacher because it wasn't very structured and after a year there was very little progress in the original goal, to the point where I wasn't sure what I was learning anymore.

I don't want the same thing to happen with piano. I'd like to play classical styles mostly in the beginning and would like proper technique/posture/ etc... to help build a good foundation.

Thank you for any advice or help.

Go to MTNA.org and you will find a link to your state music teacher's association and, likely, a link from there to the local MTA. MTNA has a teacher certification process. Look for NCTM next to a teacher's name.

Also, check with the music department of a local college or university. They often know who the most qualified local teachers are.

Certification is a valuable reference for students, but it's not the end all/be all. The MTNA certification used to be (and may still be) offered without exam to any college music grad. Betty can bring us up to speed on this. I think they've become more rigorous in recent years. They do have a rigorous exam for non-music majors, but unless recently changed, do not examine the candidate's students for competence. The ACM certification requires no college credentials but does examine teacher's students every year for teaching competency. Your choice!

What you really need to do is a combination of things: find out who has a good reputation locally, for starters. Don't hesitate to ask about their background. Teachers tend to specialize, which is not surprising if you think about it. Many teachers only work with very advanced students; others only work with young beginners, still others work with adult beginners and intermediate level students. Some specialize in jazz & improv, while others specialize in Classical repertoire.

While not always the case, it is generally true that you get what you pay for. Above average teachers charge $80 an hour or more. Top flight teachers are in the $150 - $200/hr range. If you're only willing to pay $25 or $30/hr, you're going to get exactly what you're paying for.

Thank you for the advice. There are a few universities and a college level school of music here as well. I will see and contact them on who they might recommend as a teacher. I will also look at those organizations as well.

I don't think I can afford $200 an hour! I was paying about $60 an hour here, but then again competition in my city is high.

Fees vary greatly depending on where you live. Piano teachers where I live charge anywhere from $25-$50/hr. I have a university position and I charge near the top of that range.

John,

Certification process has changed for MTNA as of January 1, 2010, John. It's in the AMT (American Music Teacher)magazine and in WSMTA Clarion and on the www.mtna.org website

For instance, here in Washington State where you and I live, certification is now granted at the national level then also granted in WSMTA with an application and a fee to WSMTA, I believe.

You might want to do some reading up on the whole new process.

Since Olympia is hosting the WSMTA Convention this year, I would think you and I are going to meet. I can't miss a convention that is just about an hour down I5 from my house!

knightzerox, welcome to the forum!

Many piano teachers have degrees in music and hold membership in MTNA but may not be "certified members" of MTNA. I think you can find a good teacher through your local chapter of MTNA in your state.

If you google your zip code or the name of your city along with the words "piano teacher" you will get links to profiles or websites of available teachers in your community.

You can also go to music teacher directory services and enter your zip and your instrument and the profiles and information about them come up for viewing. You can contact anyone of your choice and ask your questions of them.

www.learningmusician.com

www.getlessonsnow.com

Let us know what happens please.

Betty Patnude

I would definitely try to get know your potential teacher before signing up for lessons. It's a serious monetary and time commitment and the process of having to switch teachers after a few months can be pretty awkward.

In addition to credentials and/or certification I might ask them the following questions:

1. Is being a piano teacher their main vocation? How big is their studio?
2. What is their intention as your teacher?
3. Can they play you one of their favorite pieces?
4. How long have they been teaching?
5. Ask for a reference or review.
6. If they have a website, explore it thoroughly!

Also take note of your "chemistry" with this individual. Remember that you are hiring them for a service to help you. The more communicative and inquisitive you are, the more serious your teacher will take you. Have no fear! Most of those questions can be answered over the phone (except for asking them to perform a piece for you.)

I think all the suggestions above are pretty good. The only comment I want to add is that if you're just a beginner, you may not need at $50/hr or more teacher. Maybe a good teacher who may not have the same accreditation as the accomplished ones but who only charges $25/hr is sufficient for your need until you grow out of that teacher and need to find a new one. If you find out a teacher doesn't work for you eventhough the interview went well, you don't need to stick around for a year before cancelling lessons. Most teachers only require monthly payment, so you can quit him/her as soon as your monthly payment is up.

Betty, it does appear to be more comprehensive. That's great news.

Thanks for updating us.

John

With all due respect, I disagree with that statement. The first teacher is by far the most important one, because the beginning lessons are where basic habits are formed, habits that can be frustratingly difficult to overcome later on.

Although accreditation does not guarantee a good teacher, and certainly not a guarantee of a good "fit" personality-wise, it is one way of weeding out many amateurs who may not know what they are doing.

I agree! I take great pride in starting people off correctly. People don't realize how difficult it is to teach beginners *well*.

You might want to reread the hundreds of posts by frustrated teachers who have to re-teach basic concepts and playing techniques to students who took lessons with these bargain teachers.

You guys all seem to have ignored the key adjective "good" (as in "good" teacher) that I use in my post and automatically labeled any $25/hr teacher as "bargain" teachers who can never ever be a good teacher. That's quite a prejudice, I must say. You already admitted that good accreditation does not guarantee a good teacher. So why would $25/hr guarantee a bad teacher? Just the same as why would $50/hr guarantee a good teacher?

Sure, you get what you pay for, but as a beginner, you don't need somebody who's a genius or virtuoso who charges $50 or $100/hr to teach you the basic fundamentals with good habits and techniques. As long as the teacher follows an established teaching method, has had experience teaching (you can ask them for references from parents/students they've been teaching), can play decently well (to show that they have the skills and good techniques, or else they wouldn't be able to play well), then it's a fairly safe bet that the teacher is good enough to teach you as a beginner.

And keep in mind that this is not a child who doesn't know any better asking for advice. This is an adult beginner asking, and he's already had experience with bad teachers on other instruments, so he should know how to assess whether a teacher is good enough for him or not. And even if he's wrong after all the initial qualification/interviewing/assessment that he does with the teacher, it'd still only cost him a few lessons to find out. He's never stuck if it turns out the teacher doesn't work out for him.

The method book is merely a skeletal outline for the teacher to follow while presenting and helping the student form good piano playing technique.

Two questions: If you haven't learned good technique, how will you recognize it when the prospective teacher plays? Why would a "good" teacher work for half pay?


I'd say that's a fool's bet.

You don't know in the strictest sense, but you should be able to tell in the general sense. I think if the teacher can play a variety of pieces fluently, fast and slow, and even unfamiliar pieces you throw at him/her by surpise adequately, then it's a good indication that they're a decent piano player. And in general, a decent piano player should have learned and possess good techniques to begin with to be able to play decently.

An analogy is I'm no tennis pro, just a beginner, but I'm able to tell right away when somebody plays tennis whether they have the proper techniques or not. It's not rocket science. I can tell bad techniques easily when I see one because it'd look awkward and clumsy, usually followed by poor results and/or mistakes.


There are many reasons a "good" teacher may choose to charge less. One is already discussed, the lack of formal accreditation, so they can't compete with more accomplished pianists who've had formal education and degrees in music or music education. But it doesn't mean that they don't know how to play the piano well themselves with good techniques and is able to teach beginner level.

Another reason is a new teacher who's trying to get into the profession. The lower rate would help grow their student base and establish more teaching experience. But not all new inexperienced teachers are bad teachers automatically like you guys assume. Don't tell me that you didn't once start out as a new teacher without any teaching experience yourself. Everybody gotta start out new some where, some time.

Thirdly, not everybody is rich enough to pay +$50/hr for their kids' lessons. There's a big market out there for parents who want to give their kids the gift of music but would never be able to afford it if every single teacher charges +$50/hr for lessons. So I think those lower priced teachers actually offer a good reasonable service that allows more children to be able to learn music. I would rather get paid $25/hr if I can find 10 parents who are willing to sign up for this rate, than $50/hr if I can only get 1 parent who can afford this price. It's a huge commitment to pay +$50/hr for your beginner young child to take piano lesson when you don't even know if your child is going to stick with it or not.



A fool is one who pays an arm and a leg for an over-priced (albeit good, but unnecessarily over-priced nevertheless) teacher to teach him very basic beginner fundamental stuff and is afraid to try out a more reasonably priced "good" teacher who can teach him well just the same for half-price. If we're talking about intermediate or advanced level students, I wouldn't argue with you guys. But for somebody who knows nothing about music and the piano, there's a lot to learn and much to progress until one can outgrow the beginner's stage. Good habits and techniques are part of the beginner's learning experience but is not everything. There's a lot a beginner needs to learn on the musical theory side of things as well.

Another analogy here is learning karate. You don't need a fifth degree black belt to teach you karate as a beginner. In fact, a fifth degree black belt will probably refuse to take you in as a beginner. A brown belt or first degree black belt who's a good teacher would probably suffice, at least until you get to a green or blue belt level. And even then, if that first degree black belt is good enough for you and as long as you can still learn from him, why not stick with him until you outgrow him? If anything, he may be the one to refer you to a higher level teacher when you've outgrown him.

I wish you the very best with your "half price" good teacher. Let us know how it works out.

I've heard enough.

I wonder when our regular posting piano teachers in this forum are going to stop defending the quality of their work and their prices?

If these people are happy with what they get elsewhere at a cheaper price, with no policies in place, they can take a lesson here and there, maybe progree, maybe not, no goals, no structure in place - then so be it. It seems like a good match actually if they are going to spend a lot of time arguing with us about our music teaching businesses. Let them have at it. It's how I feel about a bad marriage: when I see people in a difficult marriage making each other miserable, I think "thank god they found each other and let some other innocent person off the hook."

We know the standards of being prepared for piano teaching are severely lacking or non-existant in many people calling themselves piano teachers, but the public doesn't seem to recognize the problem exists and that they can do better in finding a teacher. In fact, we all, as teachers know that the first teacher is the most important teacher as all basic musicianship is put into place by the first teacher. A serious responsibility. Reason to buy quality instruction.

So, in the teacher's forum, it's getting pretty irritating to hear the same old same old from people who want to do piano their way and ignore any wisdom being given freely to them to consider.

There is much in the archives about these kinds of topics and let them do a little research on their own if they truly want to compare and have our viewpoints.

We don't have to defend or explain on a daily basis as it robs us of our enthusiasm and purpose in the present moment we are spending in a deadend subject.

I would like to see the piano teachers forum used for discussion among piano teachers. There may be need for a forum called "Ask the Piano Teachers" where these kind of things could occur and people needing this information keep their issues separate from our piano teacher forum where teachers want to mingle together.

1) Teachers, how do we feel about this "teacher bashing and battering"?

2) Please do not respond to my posting if you are not a teacher.

3) And, teachers please identify yourselves as teachers in your signature.

4) And, don't tell me I don't have to read these things. It's pretty insulting to all of us to entertain these problems rather you recognize it or not. We have enough to do in parent education in our own studios. I really get the idea that we are talking to the wall. Otherwise I would not post my frustration.

Betty Patnude

Calm down, Betty. I've worked in this profession for 30 years; you and others have even longer. We've learned through the school of hard knocks and apparently, others are going to have to learn the same lessons the same way. It's a pity, but often true.

You've had and I've had dozens and dozens of parents over the years who have said to us, "We just get sick thinking about all the money we wasted not knowing better."

By the way, remember that really sensitive transfer student I mentioned a week ago? In three lessons, she's progressed what her previous teacher did in three months. Why the slow progress? And she's very bright, grasping concepts very quickly. What can you possibly say????

The issue of whether the teacher's forum should be for teachers only has been discussed ad nauseum, and each time the outcome is the same: The majority of teachers here state that they welcome the contributions of parents and students. In fact, Frank himself (the owner of the forum, in case you've forgotten) weighed in once and said that the piano teachers' forum should be open to all. It's annoying to have you keep raising this issue.




Once again, you're not the moderator or the owner of this forum. You do not have the right to tell people where they can and cannot post. I suggest that you start your own teachers' forum that you can control as you'd like. I'll even promise not to register for it.




You don't have to read these posts, Betty, and you certainly don't have to respond to them if they upset you so much.

I'll throw my 2 cents in. Why do teachers feel the need to defend our policies, fees, and teaching methods? There is a lot of support here in this forum and sometimes in apparent frustration, some of us get paranoid of how a policy change might come across to clients, or an increase in tuition, something like that. We can bounce ideas off each other and get constructive feedback. Many of us have our own businesses and just need different ideas. Perhaps we come across as defensive. Some of us may be lacking in assertiveness but are damn good teachers, care immensely for our students and do not feel the need to defend that. But we question ourselves every day, right? Because we can always do a better job.
Regarding "bargain teachers",
FWIW, no doubt we all know of piano teachers who are NOT GOOD but charge a hefty fee anyway.