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Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? #1351730
01/17/10 07:56 AM
01/17/10 07:56 AM
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Pianostudent77 Offline OP
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Hi All,

For the time being it's just a dream, but in the future I'd like to switch my upright for a nice grand piano.
In choosing a grand piano, the higher you move up the ladder the better sound and action you're probably going to get.

However, when you're only an amateur, playing for your own pleasure without really performing, unless maybe a recording now and then, what is acceptable price- and quality-wise?

I feel like, if I'd go buying a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer, it just wouldn't do justice to the instrument itself being in the hands of an amateur, it'd almost make me feel bad. Also, it would seem like I'm wasting soooo much money on an instrument without being a pro. It seems like it'd be like an insane choice, even though it might have the best sound and action.

On the other hand, I've already heard beautifully sounding Seilers. Probably other instruments in the same price league like Sauters or maybe even Bechstein's of Bosendorfer's cheaper Academy series...?
Here a second question in the same topic... regarding Bechstein and Bosie, the academy series they offer are about half the price of their standard series. How is this explained? What's the difference in build, sound and action quality? Are they worth it or, unless you can have a real Bech or Bosie, is it better to go for a Seiler or a Sauter or other?

Like to read your reactions.

greetings,

PS

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Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1351746
01/17/10 08:55 AM
01/17/10 08:55 AM
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Larry Larson Offline
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77
Hi All,

For the time being it's just a dream, but in the future I'd like to switch my upright for a nice grand piano.
In choosing a grand piano, the higher you move up the ladder the better sound and action you're probably going to get.

However, when you're only an amateur, playing for your own pleasure without really performing, unless maybe a recording now and then, what is acceptable price- and quality-wise?

I feel like, if I'd go buying a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer, it just wouldn't do justice to the instrument itself being in the hands of an amateur, it'd almost make me feel bad. Also, it would seem like I'm wasting soooo much money on an instrument without being a pro. It seems like it'd be like an insane choice, even though it might have the best sound and action.
Like to read your reactions.
greetings,

PS


I think you should get the best grand piano you can afford. Would it really make you feel bad to own it and play it, or rather would it make you bad thinking that other people would find it hard to understand?

I think of a piano as a tool; and instrument in the true sense of the word. At my first recital 3 years ago I got to play a Steinway D concert grand. I never played better in my life, because that piano was like a surgeon's fine scalpel. It made me able to do everything I wanted to do. And this may sound crazy and new-agey, but before the recital, that D intimidated me. I could imagine it saying to me "who do you think you are, playing ME?" But once I started playing, it almost seemed like the piano welcomed me and wanted to help me do my best. Sounds crazy, I know.

I'm just a beginner, but I bought a nice grand 2 years ago and I've never regretted it. I get so much enjoyment from playing it and it has made me a better player.

Who needs a good tool more than someone who is lacking skills? If I'm being operated on by a mediocre surgeon, I don't want him/her using a dull scalpel.

Even though we may not be able to bring out a fine piano's full potential, we need all the help we can get!



1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
www.larrylarsonpiano.com
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Larry Larson] #1351750
01/17/10 09:21 AM
01/17/10 09:21 AM
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Only you can decide what's ressonable for you. Depends on your finances, how much more you like the tone/touch/appearance of the more expensive pianos, and personal priorities. If your playing level is low I would say you can't "do justce"(get the best sound out of) to any piano, not just a high priced one but that may change and it doesn't necessarily mean you should buy a less expensive piano.

Are you thinking of spending more than year's salary on a piano or...

If you're looking for an "excuse" to spend more, think of the additional cost spread out over 10 or 25 years and it will look like less.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/17/10 09:25 AM.
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Larry Larson] #1351908
01/17/10 03:30 PM
01/17/10 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Larson
I think you should get the best grand piano you can afford.

If only life were so simple... :-)

If I spent my life's savings I could get a top notch concert grand - in that sense I can afford one. However, since I have three kids and a mortgage that is larger than my savings, and playing the piano is lower in my priorities than funding my children's university educations, I have just bought a grand piano that costs much less than I can afford.

I am afraid that there is no answer to the OP's question. There is a process to go through when spending large amounts of money - you need to judge the spend against your other needs, fears and desires. One comment I would make, however, is not to think in terms of 'waste'. A piano isn't wasted on you (if you play it) - Bosendorfer will always make more, and you aren't depriving anyone else of a piano by buying one, rather the opposite. The only risk is regret, and nobody else can judge that for you.

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Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: mric] #1351938
01/17/10 04:10 PM
01/17/10 04:10 PM
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mric,

May I ask wich piano you've bought? In a few years from now, I'll probably be more or less in the same position as you're now.
From that point of view, you might be a good reference.

Okay, I think as a pro, being paid for to play, and having that pay as your main income it seems justified to own a Bosie, Bechie :), Steinway or whatever top model there is out there. As an amateur, just playing as a hobby after work and nothing more, it doesn't seem justified, even if it makes you play better. Unless maybe, if later on, when you're old and grey and moving to something smaller wink (just an example) you can get a decent price for is.
But unless it's a top of the line brand like the ones above, that seems unlikely to me. I think of it as a car, when it leaves the showroom it loses half it's value, and after ten, twenty years you'll probably only get a fraction for it anymore. Am I wrong here?

regards

PS

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1351948
01/17/10 04:23 PM
01/17/10 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77
...But unless it's a top of the line brand like the ones above, that seems unlikely to me. I think of it as a car, when it leaves the showroom it loses half it's value, and after ten, twenty years you'll probably only get a fraction for it anymore. Am I wrong here?

regards

PS


In a way you are right about some pianos being like cars and loosing a huge amount of their value as they leave the showroom floor headed for your house. Some of the big names, like Steinway, Bosendorfer, Bechstein, for example, will retain much (but usually not all) of their original price in resale value. Felts harden, leathers dry out, strings corrode, soundboards lose their crown (highly debated topid), so nobody in their right mind will pay the new price for a 30 year old version of a piano. So, paying $80,000for a nice piano only have sell it for $50,000 twenty years form now is not a good investment, if all you want is an investment. But, what value do you place on having an instrument to play and enjoy, and help you maximize your playing? I think that's either answered as "not so much" or "Priceless."

Even so, practically speaking, go play several REALLY nice grands, then move on to other GOOD grands, then play some Okay grands and judge for yourself how you will spend your money. Most pianos are not really investments in the traditional sense, and they require maintanance. So buy what you can afford that makes you feel happy.


Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1351967
01/17/10 04:52 PM
01/17/10 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77
mric,

May I ask wich piano you've bought? In a few years from now, I'll probably be more or less in the same position as you're now.
From that point of view, you might be a good reference.

I bought a Brodmann 187 (6'2"). Relatively cheap, as far as grand pianos go, but I liked the sound and feel. I also liked the Yamaha C3, but it was 50% more expensive than the Brodmann, and though it had a more reassuring brand name, it didn't sound any better. I tried out more than 20 options before narrowing it down to that. If I was more brand sensitive and risk averse, I would have bought the Yamaha.

I have played finer instruments than either, but they all cost at least twice as much. I think you will need to ask me again in ten years time whether I made the 'best' choice. However, I try hard not to suffer from buyer's regret, so I am pretty determined to believe my new piano is the bee's knees!

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: mric] #1352403
01/18/10 04:59 AM
01/18/10 04:59 AM
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Hi,
some months ago I was in almost the same situation: wanting to spend some money on a grand after spending many years on a digital and afraid to spend too much, but also determined not to buy a piano that didn't satisfy me. And, of course, being only an amateur.
It took quite a while to resolve the problem, and I was able to solve it only by playing many different pianos, from Steinways (I fell in love with a Steinway D, but it was absolutely out of range...) to old August Forsters, from Schimmels to Wend & Lungs, passing through brands that I hadn't heard before.
With time, I started to understand what I really liked, what I could live without and what "I couldn't", what a reasonable price was.

I had friends telling me that it was impossible that price differences of tens thousand of euros corresponded to real sound, feel and quality differences that an amateur could really perceive, and in the beginning it made me doubt if it made sense, for me, to spend much money on a piano. But after some weeks of tests I was more and more convinced that the differences are, most of the times, wide, and that even a non professional pianist like me can greatly enjoy them and benefit in his playing (sorry for my english, I'm not sure this is a correct sentence...).

As others in this post have told you, a better instrument will let you play better, and will "call" you more on the keyboard, so you'll play more and grow better.

And, at last, why should you "downgrade" to something smaller when you retire? That's probably the time to enjoy even more your piano!

Best wishes
Paolo


Kawai RX 5
Yamaha Clavinova PF P100
Roland FP4-f
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: plobotta] #1352464
01/18/10 08:56 AM
01/18/10 08:56 AM
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Stratford, Ontario, Canada
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Another piano you might want to consider is Shigeru Kawai. Some say its as good as Bosie etc. and it will be about 2/3 of the cost of a bosendorfer, maybe even half where you live.


Louis Bousquet
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Louis H. Bousquet] #1352495
01/18/10 10:06 AM
01/18/10 10:06 AM
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England/Switzerland
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Louis = Kawai should be paying you. Every time there is a thread, you chime in claiming that Shigerus are as good as the SteinFazDorfer.

PS77 - a piano is just an inanimate object. There is no requirement for you to do it justice.

My advice, having owned several pianos either at home or in a studio environment, is build up your experience, don't be swayed by brand names, and eventually buy what you most enjoy musically.

Most performance (as opposed to teaching) pro's that I have known over the years tend to go for a Steinway D if they have space and can afford it or failing that a B. If they can't afford the Steinway, they often go for a Yamaha CF111S, which sounds and feels fairly similar and also can take a lot of punishment.

In my experience, 2nd choice for many pro's is a Boesendorfer.

Pro players need to practice on an instrument that will be similar to what they will most often perform on.

You, as an amateur, have no such constraint and so your palette is much wider. These days we have a vast choice of many good new and used grands from China, Japan, Europe and the US in the 6-7ft range (I would not go smaller personally) at most price points.

Start playing them now. By the time you have the cash to buy, you'll pretty much know what you like.

In your shoes my money would be spent on a used (to avoid the truly huge depreciation hit), less than 15 years old, 6-7ft grand from a reputable maker. I would pay minimal attention to brand names and a lot of attention to sound, feel and reputation for stability.







Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: AJB] #1352523
01/18/10 10:37 AM
01/18/10 10:37 AM
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The piano industry is evolving rapidly. Since you plan to buy well into the future, I would wait and ask this question when you are ready to start shopping seriously.

Who knows? You may be able to get a Vietnamese-made Steinway with a carbon fiber soundboard for under $3000! smile


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1352528
01/18/10 10:57 AM
01/18/10 10:57 AM
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To me, buying and using a piano is a delightful luxury. Therefore, essentials must be considered first. After examining financial resource requirements for essentials, you can determine what is available for luxuries. This, or something close to it, establishes your upper limit for a piano purchase, if this is your only intended luxury.

As for the minimum purchase price, in my opinion, it is possible to obtain a high quality instrument for approximately $10,000 or less. Many used instruments fall into this bracket, as do a few new instruments. I believe my Hailun HG178 is still available for this much or less, and I'm sure there are others (see Larry Fine's book).

Within this range, you should suit yourself. Shop and compare. Listen and consider. I am an Intermediate level player (I think), and found dimishing returns at perhaps a different level than a concert pianist might. After playing
Steinways, Schimmels, Kawaii, Yamaha and others, I chose Hailun. But you should choose what you like and can comfortably afford.

Whatever you do, don't "settle" for something that you are not enthusiastic about. Take you time, and find one that "speaks to you", and you won't regret it. You'll also find yourself playing more.

Hop




HG178, Roland FP-5, Casio PX 130
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Hop] #1352546
01/18/10 11:17 AM
01/18/10 11:17 AM
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Columbia County, New York
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I believe the little things are just as important as the bigger things. If you buy a piano that bothers you in little ways, you are less likely to play it, then if you owned a piano which you are proud of. Quoting Sir Henry Royce of Rolls Royce fame, "Long after the cost is forgotten, the quality endures." Buy the best you afford, or even a little more than you think you can afford. You wouldn't regret it.

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1352559
01/18/10 11:43 AM
01/18/10 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77

I feel like, if I'd go buying a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer, it just wouldn't do justice to the instrument itself being in the hands of an amateur, it'd almost make me feel bad.


I've been playing for over 20 years, but I have to admit that sometimes I feel the need to apologize to my piano for not being better than I am. The feeling usually passes fairly quickly wink


How much you spend on your piano depends not only on your income, but also on your priorities. There are millionairres who would never think of spending over $10,000 on a piano. On the other hand, there are average Joe's who own Steinways and Bosendorfers.


Estonia 190
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Brent B] #1352609
01/18/10 12:52 PM
01/18/10 12:52 PM
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after you play lots and lots and lots of grand pianos, you'll have a better idea of what your own personal priorities are.

bear in mind the technician. who your technician is is perhaps the most important part of the equation.

if you live in an area where there are great technicians, you could spend a lot less on an asian piano and then use the money you might otherwise have spent on a "prestige name" piano on technical services.

that would be a very smart way to go.

if you don't have great technicians where you live, then.... it might be more important to get a make that is known for superb workmanship, stability, and durability.

the sound you get can be affected by so many factors... the name on the fallboard is only one of dozens of factors.

the feel of the action may be terrific the day you buy the piano, but if you don't have a great tech, it is going to deteriorate very soon.

if you are short on funds and yet very picky about what you like, you could do just fine buying a nice chinese grand and giving a great tech full rein to do whatever needs to be done to make it into a great piano.

Last edited by piqué; 01/18/10 12:54 PM.

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Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: piqué] #1352795
01/18/10 06:24 PM
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My idea is, what is a good tech? how do you know you have one? out here, there's no association or anything so if i'd want, i could be a tech as of tomorrow... I've always found that annoying... not being able to judge that...

PS

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1352803
01/18/10 06:30 PM
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Regarding prices, one tends to think cheap is bad because, where are the differences between cheap korean and steinway, not only name I hope?

how do you asses build quality? making sure it won't be worn out after ten years?
just some random thoughts before bed time smile

PS

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1352823
01/18/10 07:07 PM
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Read Piano Buyer and visit www.ptg.org.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
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Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1352971
01/18/10 10:05 PM
01/18/10 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77
My idea is, what is a good tech? how do you know you have one? out here, there's no association or anything so if i'd want, i could be a tech as of tomorrow... I've always found that annoying... not being able to judge that...

PS


you are right! anyone can claim they are a tech. if they are an rpt, you know they have a baseline level of competence, but it doesn't mean they have a gift. and some very gifted techs are not rpts, so don't make that a requirement.

you know if you have a great tech if their prep work makes you swoon.

if you play pianos in the stores, and one store in particular has beautifully prepared pianos, ask them who their tech is.

find out who is the tuner for the opera, the symphony, the ballet.

ask your piano teacher, ask your friends, ask the ptg who the local members are.

after a while, the same names will keep getting repeated. call those techs up and ask if you can play a piano they recently prepared and that they feel is their best work.

if you love the sound they created, there you are!

people should pay less attention to the name on the fallboard and more attention to the name of the person who wielded the tuning hammer.


piqué

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Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1353047
01/19/10 12:03 AM
01/19/10 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianostudent77
...how do you asses build quality? making sure it won't be worn out after ten years?
just some random thoughts before bed time smile

PS


You mean, how do you ASSESS build quality...? laugh Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Get Larry Fine's book, "The Piano Book" and read up a bit. There's a lot to learn about pianos and what makes good and not-so-good pianos. It's way, way too much to discuss in a few forum postings. Also, check out Perry Knize's (Pique' --- notice that she has replied to you smile ) book "Grand Obsession." It will give you alot of great information on differences between pianos and how they do what makes us all love them.


Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: piqué] #1353053
01/19/10 12:07 AM
01/19/10 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by piqué
...you know if you have a great tech if their prep work makes you swoon.

if you play pianos in the stores, and one store in particular has beautifully prepared pianos, ask them who their tech is.

people should pay less attention to the name on the fallboard and more attention to the name of the person who wielded the tuning hammer.


Pique' I've also found that if you go to a piano store and all their pianos are poorly prepared, you should ask the name of their technician/tuner... of course, not to have the person come out to work on your piano, but to remember the name so as not to have them come to work on your piano. laugh


Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: piqué] #1353063
01/19/10 12:32 AM
01/19/10 12:32 AM
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piqué,

Your book changed my perspective on pianos forever. Like the OP, I was more or less obsessed by the big names for a while. We all have in our mind these hierarchy of better and better pianos that if we only could have in our living, our lives would change! After reading your book, I decided that what I really need is to get the best tech I could find rather than go with whoever the dealer sends. As a result I found a tech who take care of symphony halls and performing artists. The result is simply fantastic, so I agree with you completely. If you have access to area with high end tech, get a good Yamaha/Kawai and the high end tech. The tech listens to the way your play and listens to how you want the piano to sound and he can do far more than you realize.



Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: piqué] #1353079
01/19/10 01:02 AM
01/19/10 01:02 AM
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charleslang Offline
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Originally Posted by piqué
people should pay less attention to the name on the fallboard and more attention to the name of the person who wielded the tuning hammer.


I agree. It's possible to watch talented pianists on videos on youtube, playing good quality pianos by makers with good reputation, and only about one in ten is prepped to a nice level. I would rather have a Chinese piano and have it tuned and voiced four times a year than an expensive make that is slightly out of maintenance.


charlessamuellang.com
Semi-pro pianist and piano technician
Tuesdays 5-8:30 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: charleslang] #1353153
01/19/10 03:53 AM
01/19/10 03:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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The comparison is fallacious.

To be meaningful compare a well prepped cheap piano with a well prepped top make.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: AJB] #1353309
01/19/10 11:45 AM
01/19/10 11:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 654
Hudson, FL
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Hop Offline
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Hop  Offline
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Originally Posted by AJB
The comparison is fallacious.

To be meaningful compare a well prepped cheap piano with a well prepped top make.


I beg to differ. I don't know about cheap pianos, but when I examined my Hailun I thought it was very well built; it looked durable. I hired to best tech in the area to examine it, and he was effusive about the high quality of it. I consider this an exsistence proof that such pianos exist; I'm sure that there are other brands that are also well built and durable. Certainly the very fine Kawaii or Yamaha instruments are cheap compared to a Steinway or Fazoli.

If I have X dollars, and spend as much as needed on maintenence and the remainder on a less expensive piano, then I claim I might very well be better off than spending all X dollars on a more expensive instrument without maintenance. Even if I spent less than needed on maintenence and the remainder of X on a more expensive piano, I'd be less better off.

I recognize that you would immediately point out that a person buying a more expensive piano wouldn't skimp on tuning and other maintenance. You might be right. Or not. But the comparison is, I think, valid.

To put it differently, I'd encourage any potential buyer to ballpark the annual maintenance costs, and subtract that from the purchase budget. The remainder can then be spent for the instrument. Using all of the budget on the instrument might well yield sub-optimal results.

Hop


HG178, Roland FP-5, Casio PX 130
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Hop] #1353362
01/19/10 01:02 PM
01/19/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,485
piqué Offline
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piqué  Offline
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very nicely explained, hop. there are plenty of us who would make sacrifices to have a great piano, and then would discover we can't afford to keep it properly maintained--especially if we don't live in a major city.

of COURSE if you have a top tier piano and ALSO maintain it regularly, that is the optimal situation. but for those who have to really stretch themselves to buy that top tier piano, they really are better off getting something less expensive and spending the rest of their funds on a great technician.


piqué

now in paperback:
[Linked Image]

Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: piqué] #1353385
01/19/10 01:28 PM
01/19/10 01:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 242
Texas
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Russ Roberts Offline
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Texas
I definitely fit the category of someone whose piano (when it finally arrives smile smile ) is better than I am--and probably always will be. Like one poster, I too have played a Steinway D and found it initially intimidating, but I know damned well it made me a "better" pianist. At the risk of some repetition, I would sum up my feelings as follows:

1. It isn't a "waste". It may be an unwarranted expense, but never a waste.

2. You have to look at your prioties--if you are older, as I am and have no dependents, you may reach the conclusion that you owe it to yourself--before you go belly up, to spend some money on yourself. Go see Johnathon Livingston Seagull. The movie is horribly trite, but there really is more to life than eating, breeding, and laying eggs.

3. That having been said, you should make certain that you don't have other expensive hobbies or pursuits on which you might one day wish you had spent the money. And the younger you are, the more that should be a concern.

4. I have no experience, personally, but expect that what Hop and Perri say is true--I am beginning to learn how important the prep and maintenance are.

You also have to beware of all the people on this board! They are like the devil whispering in your ear. When I was asking about the Estonia, one poster said something along the lines of how much fun it is to spend other people's money. smile Similarly, in the area of computers--I use one for posting, email and Word documents. My son however works for Dell and if I dare ask him what PC to buy, I will end up with a screaming server that needs water cooling!

Good luck in your search.

Russ


Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Russ Roberts] #1353456
01/19/10 03:15 PM
01/19/10 03:15 PM
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Posts: 115
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Pianostudent77 Offline OP
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Thanks all for your replies,

First of all again my excuses for my english, it is not my native tongue, so forgive me my mistakes.

If a piano costing 10.000$ can be as good as a piano costing 100.000$, then what is the relevance of Larry fines categories? Seems a bit contradictory to me.

I think that out here, a lot of piano shops have their own techs. Some owners are all in one (sales, tech,...). So, probably depending on the shop you visit, you'll get the tech they've hired. It might help to ask, but it could result in still a lot of different names.

Regarding the tech being able to adjust a lot. I've been talking to my tech today, for a tuning and also my wish to calm down the action a bit (a gentle key press gives already a big sound). Maybe this is possible but he argued it was not advisable and like changeing the soul of the piano... so well... changeing techs might also not work, since a lot of them also sell piano's, a friend had had the experience that the tech was not happy to service a piano he didn't sell and prefered not to service it again...

Regarding budget, I consider the price of a Sauter delta being around the highest possible amount I could reasonably spend, or anything else in that price league, so no steinway d's or yamaha cfIIIs's.

I'd like to see larry fine's book, but i don't know if it's available in europe?

PS

Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Pianostudent77] #1353493
01/19/10 04:13 PM
01/19/10 04:13 PM
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Texas
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Russ Roberts Offline
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Russ Roberts  Offline
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Texas
Good Heavens, Pianostudent: Your English is outstanding--far better than my German, French...or my anything else, for that matter. As President Obama said on a tour of Europe, "...I don't know what the term is in Austrian."

When you state that you are European, then apologize for your English, I can only surmise that you are British. smile

Russ

Last edited by Russ Roberts; 01/19/10 04:14 PM.

Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt
Re: Grand piano buying: what is reasonable? [Re: Russ Roberts] #1353505
01/19/10 04:45 PM
01/19/10 04:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
Hop - if people are dealing with limited funds, whether for purchase or maintenance, then that obviously has to be factored in to the equation. It is a non point. There is no point having any piano, let alone a tier 1 instrument, if you can't afford to tune it.

OP - a $10k piano is rarely (if ever) as good as a tier 1 concert grand. I have never found one and the comparison is invidious.

However, it doesn't matter much because in practice we do not make these comparisons all the time. We have piano x at home and we get used to it.

I have been in the position of being able to compare a mid range piano (Boston GP178) with a tier 1 piano (Hamburg D) side by side at home. Both prepped very well by an ex Steinway Hall (London) well known senior technician. The difference is massive. So is the price gap.

Different ears and fingers may make a different judgement. Which is why all subjective internet opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them.



Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
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