Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum I don't practice with a metronome neither I count.

Hey there, I need somebody to tell if I'm really making a mistake by not using a metronome neither counting at all. Is this something I need to get used to? Is this essential?

Is counting essential?

Yes.

I don't know how long you have been playing. If you are a real beginner and only play short well-known pieces of music you'll probably get away with playing the rythm 'by ear'.

But as soon as things get more complicated (16th or shorter notes, syncopated rythms, pieces of music you are not familiar with, weird time signatures, changing time signatures within a piece, different rythms for left and right hand) you'll get lost during your attempts to master a piece.

Much better to get used to counting before you reach that point.

(a metronome can be useful for real complex rythms, or for checking wether you keep a constant tempo throughout a piece, or to force you to practice low speed. Not as basically necessary as straightforward counting, but a very useful practice tool)

Ingrid

I am a beginner and I find counting to be very, very important when learning a new piece at slow tempo.

As I increase the tempo up to full speed, there's a point where I become unable to count anymore, though. I don't know if it will come with practice, or if it's something I should work on harder, but at a certain tempo I just can't count and play at the same time or my brain gets overwhelmed.

So at that point, I usually turn on the metronome and use that to work my speed up.

But some combination of the two of them is definitely essential for me.

Mooshinator...

My experience (playing 3 yrs, so also still a beginner) is that once you know how a piece should sound, rythm wise, you don't have to count throughout every beat and measure. For complex pieces though, I notice that sometimes I continue counting through a few difficult spots. What I also often do is kind of count-singing. Like I use the one-and-two-etc to kind of 'sing' the melody (instead of whatever other text there is, or instead of humming a textless-piece. It sounds ridiculous, but works well. It's like the counting and the playing more or less 'merge'..more pleasant for the brain I think. (and also an easy way to work on rythms when away from the piano. In the car. or on your bike)

Ingrid

Being a good counter is my biggest downfall. It is extremely important.

I find that I have to focus on the rhythm problems the most. I can fix an incorrect note far, far easier than incorrect rhythm. I've even had to stop working on pieces because I could not fix the rhythm mistakes I have learned in them.

Rich

I am probably a minority in my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. I started to play fairly recently and am in my 40's, and I have come to the realization that I will never be an expert Piano player and hence am resigned to the fact that I will only be playing pieces that I love to hear i.e. I doubt I will ever be able to look at sheet music and just be able to play.

So I have basically decided on just doing it by ear and if I can play the pieces I like fairly close than I am OK with it.

As I said I am probably a minority in this opinion but you need to decide what type of player do you want to be, I would think its fairly important to use a metronome/count if you want to be at the level as some of the other contributors to this forum.

All the best.

Counting is for rhythm; the metronome is for tempo. Both are important.

Ingrid has summed up my feelings exactly... To really achieve perfect rhythm, you need to have the ability to count correctly as you play. To achieve a rock-solid steady tempo, you need to have the ability to stay with a metronome.

Whether you work hard at these things is really up to you to decide how good you want to be!

Thank you, Ingrid, reading your post made me think of several ideas that I could try!

I know *exactly* what you mean about singing the count! I used to do it all the time before my method book got into eighth notes. Without eighth notes, I was able to sing the count and play at full tempo. Once I added in eighth notes, however, my brain got overloaded.

However, you make an interesting point about not needing every single beat in the count once you understand the rhythm. One thing I may try is when I am learning the song at slow tempo I will continue to do a "full count", and by that I mean saying "and" for the eighth notes.

But once I learn the rhythm and start speeding up the tempo, I may try dropping the "and"s and reverting to just counting the beats like a metronome, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4... by doing that, I might be able to once again "sing the count" and count and play at full tempo...

I think if you have in a year or 2 goal, not rushing to play your favorite pieces right away or soon, counting definitely will come with practice. Same with LF, RH coordination, counting is extremely difficult at first. And like LF, RH coordination, we have to overcome that to play any piece, favorite or not, counting will also become easier. I haven’t encountered difficult rhythms yet, but the ones that were so difficult to me months ago are now very doable after a few tries.

Going the classical route? Probably. Not classical? Not really.

Thanks everyone, I'll start slowly.

Why is that a downfall?

I came up with something I called the "MiM Index Finger Method" :-) It is basically about using your index finger to point and touch the sheet as you count, as well as when you are listening to the recorded piece.

So, I look at the time signature, say it is 4/4. I then point to each note and count like" 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and, etc., placing my finger on each note, and keeping it for the duration of the note. Doing this a few times before you play anything ensures that when you do play, you don't go off in the wrong direction, pick the wrong tempo, miss a note, etc. What I noticed is that if you try to start learning a piece before fully understanding when and where each note goes, you end up paying up for that later on as you try to unlearn the mistake. I have been playing for about 14 years, but still take it with a grain of salt.

When I started self teaching, before I got a teacher, I didn't count. When I finally got a teacher, I was way behind in that area and I'm still trying to fix my counting problem. If I was better at it, my pieces wouldn't sound so hackish. It's a real problem for me and its really hurting me as I advance.

That's why I tell people, get a teacher early, it can save you major problems...

Playing ensemble. Definitely.

Exactly this.

And I don't know if it will help anyone, but I have lots of difficult measures marked with the counts directly on the music--written in by me. 1 & 2 e & a 3 4 & etc.

i find it very difficult to count when the rhythm become complicated...

Would slow it down help? I wonder if Beethoven, Mozart or Chopin had metronomes in their days; or did they simply just have to count?