Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Do children progress faster than late starters

And dare I reiterate, it is that very motivation that can get in the way. Children don't know why they play the piano. In fact, they have no need of a reason. (I am trying to help)

Perhaps I am using the wrong term; it might have been better to say that the universe of adult beginners consists entirely of people who are *interested* in learning the piano, whereas the universe of child beginners consists of a large number of kids who really have no interest.

I am not trying to refute your point at all; in fact, your point could very explain the achievement difference between interested adults and interested children.

I am being awkward! But maybe if someone told you to practice the piano, and you did what you're told, you wouldn't need to be *interested*.

I think we miss the point somewhere along the way. If an adult and a child are both interested, motivated, have the same drive; we (adults) have no chance catching them (children).

If you compare a disinterested, unmotivated child to an eager, motivated, hard-working adult, well, there shouldn’t be any comparison in the first place.

So let’s compare 2 equally motivated and interested students.

The child has all the advantages: a brand new, fresh, empty, undisturbed mind and a lot of free time (besides school, home works, video games or games, there aren’t anything else they have to do).

For us, with a strong drive, focus, motivated and hard working ethic, well, we would still lag behind because there are so many other life commitments that our brains/minds are occupied with.

Gotta pay those bills. Kids done home work yet? Did their half hour piano already? Ahh, darn it, have to get these laundry done tonight & tomorrow night. Work sucks today. Gotta see that game (Patriots vs Ravens) this weekend. This darn oil heater isn’t right, gotta convert go natural gas – yeah save energy, go Green. Mom & Dad coming over this weekend, what's for dinner? Hmmm… floor is dirty, maybe I’ll clean it tomorrow night or this weekend. Visiting your parents this weekend honey? The list is endless if everyone fills in theirs.

Having said all that, I think if we focus and do our best, we will see astounding results. Can we learn at the same rate our young counterparts do and get to advanced level? If we are rich, have nothing to worry but practice, I would like to say “YES”. Otherwise, I doubt it. Can we learn and play pieces we aspire to play one day? I hope so because the teachers here seem to be very optimistic.

Stop wanting it!

No. It's not a case of wanting or not wanting. Just do.

Want is a word that fascinates me. 200 years ago it was a noun and meant 'a lack of'. Today it ostensibly means 'a need of' but in reality oscillates between the two.

Emphasis is on "do".

You two make me laugh. LOL.

+1. Totally agree.

Just because "old" folks can't run the mile in under 4 minutes doesn't mean we should give up exercise.

For differences between how adults learn and how children and infants learn, the book "The Scientist in the Crib" by Dr. Alison Gopnik and her colleagues is interesting. It's not specifically about music, but it does show how a child's capacity to learn is expansive because it has not been channelled to finite possibilities by experience.

How fortunate that one can choose infinite possibilities as well.

Language acquisition is an excellent example. By the age of 9 months a child's brain has hard wired to 'filter out' non-indigenous language sounds. The infinite variety of language is no longer there - traded in instead for facility.

Semantics non-withstanding, I found that approaching piano lessons as a child would has helped me a great deal. I nearly completely delegate the teaching act to the teacher and try to comply with most of what he says without second guessing or asserting that x or y does not work well for "me"..I ask questions but I actually avoid arguments. I feel that the lesson time is better used for other things. I do not necessarily admit everything he says as truth but I educate myself by reading and occasionally asking for clarification. I completly accept that piano teaching and learning is imperfect and benefits from a long tradition that has clearly worked for many, but that necessarily includes a substantial amount of dogma which may or not withstand thorough scientific testing.
Obviously the main underpinning of such a relationship is trust. I did select my teacher very carefully and only after engaging in lessons on a 6 week trial (per his request) did I commit completely.
It is not ideal but it has worked for me. I expressed my goals clearly in the beginning and then let him take charge. I will admit that this is is not very typical for me as I tend to be in a professional position where decison making is a constant order-of-the-day and my personality make-up is such that I inquire relentlessly and I trust the scientific method to approach most situations, emotional life excluded. So engaging in piano lessons in this manner was novel to me but I sensed that if I were to be more involved and "consulted" prior to every assignment, things would not evlove properly or speedily.
Granted this approach is not for everyone and sometimes I disagree strongly with some of his approach but overall it works well. I am advancing quickly enough and I enjoy not having to worry about lesson planning and discussions. I also always try his recommendations "blindly" before I decide that there could be a diferent or better way and I accept things like "that's how we do it" as a reasonable explanation !! Some of my friends find such compliance on my part to be completely shocking!! So do I.. But it workd for me..

At whatever age you are, it seems to me that what you put into roughly corresponds to what you'll get out of it.

When I first started my lessons, I was obsessed with "what can I do to maximize my learning rate." Later, I relaxed that view to "let's just 'enjoy' the journey."

Doesn't matter if adults learn faster or slower than me. Doesn't matter if kids learn faster or slower than me. Nothing I can do about either anyway...

I'll just continue on 'my' journey, however fast or slow that might be.

Akira, I will try to follow your good advice - thanks everyone for all your helpful posts.

I've read each of your posts and have learned so much. Thanks for being there.

I think that's the whole point of a guru. Sadly, not really a western thing.

[quote=TimR.... But they were souffle makers, and the job needed a short order cook with more nerve than skill. [/quote]

I'm going to stretch this analogy too far...

My daughter (age 5) has been much praised and marvelled over as a Soulfle maker of the future (just aced AMEB Gr1 Piano )... However, following a few weeks off for xmas, she's not so keen to get back into it and I suspect may throw away her souffle skills in favour of something COMPLETELY different, carpentry perhaps?

As an ADULT learner you have the advantage. You can SEE the long term goal and know that 5 or 6 years of study isnt necessarily that long to gain a GREAT skill.

As a 5 yr old spending 5 years learning to do anything is beyond comprehension - so if it doesnt come easily. Its too easy to be distracted and find something else to try.

AGED 5, and she has already sat Grade 1 AMEB?????????

When did she start, for goodness sake?

That's why children need to do as they're told. Again, not a very western thing.