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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
theJourney #1348394 01/13/10 08:53 AM
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I've probably owned 31 instruments, but only keep one or two at any given time. I used funds from instrument #1 to help pay for instrument #2 and so on. A wonderful addiction . . . !

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
theJourney #1348405 01/13/10 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
I didn't say anything about manufacturing cost.

Sorry, I guess I was reading between the (two) lines of your post.

Originally Posted by theJourney
In a lineup of a family of three instruments ranging from $1800 to $6000, it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that the $1800 instrument will offer the same feature set, value or user utility as the $6000 instrument.

I'm just hoping one of the CFIII patches is the same across all three.

One of the things that is encouraging my hope is the SCM Piano Block <Piano sounds> table in the CP1/5/50 family brochure. For the intersection of CP5/50 and DX7 they use an asterisk to tell you "DX7 sounds for CP5/CP50 are AWM2 (PCM sampled) voice" rather than SCM. If the CFIII patch were somehow inferior in the CP5/50 I would hope they would point that out too.

But they don't, hence my optimism (albeit very guarded).

Also, it would be extra work for them to somehow hobble voices based on the model. The basically lazy disposition of humans (not necessarily a bad thing) leads me to believe the patches have a chance of being the same across models.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1348408 01/13/10 09:41 AM
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It is interesting to note that (based on the brochure) the CP5 & 50 will be limited to one patch each which is not configurable on the front end as on the CP1. I can't imagine it wouldn't sound good, it just may not be as high resolution, diverse or tweakable as on the CP1.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
theJourney #1348424 01/13/10 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
It is interesting to note that (based on the brochure) the CP5 & 50 will be limited to one patch each which is not configurable on the front end as on the CP1. I can't imagine it wouldn't sound good, it just may not be as high resolution, diverse or tweakable as on the CP1.

Based on the CP1 MIDI implementation, the two patches of the CF (& S6) are differentiated only by the number of EQ bands in the "preamplifier" (2 or 3).

Also, on their CP50 page, Yamaha has the following bullet items at the top:

- The core Spectral Component Modeling technology added with a wide
- Customizing totally original piano sounds

With the text:

The CP50 take the core sounds and technology of the CP1

Take from that what you will, but for me it is encouraging.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
theJourney #1348672 01/13/10 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
The CP-1 seems to me to be positioned against the VPiano while the CP-5 is more of a RD700GX.

Ah. The V-Piano has no sounds other than AP and EP, so the CP1 doesn't need other sounds, either, because it's meant to be positioned against the V-Piano. Right? And since the CP5 is positioned against the RD700GX, and the RD700GX has other sounds, Yamaha had to add other sounds to the CP5, as well. Is that what you're saying? And you actually agree with this logic?

Here's a fancy new idea: How about designing DPs with the wishes/needs of their customers in mind? I know, I'm being unrealistic here. Just thought I'd share this revolutionary new concept...

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
madshi #1348744 01/13/10 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi
Here's a fancy new idea: How about designing DPs with the wishes/needs of their customers in mind? I know, I'm being unrealistic here. Just thought I'd share this revolutionary new concept...

Then how would the 10 layers of management between the EEs and customers justify their existence? For god's sake, think of the poor suits and their bonuses.

All the games they play with tiering lately are driving me a little crazy. Strip the product down and sell it for a somewhat fair price. Then add seemingly random groups of options back in until you have the thing everyone wants, but charge an exorbitant price for it. Offer the 10 haphazard models in between at in between prices. Spend months in meetings hammering it out via Powerpoint and email, while the EEs watch from the sidelines, wondering how the dust will settle.

In the case of the CP1 they didn't even add it all back for the top tier, which is so daring and deviously twisted that the second some mid-level weasel came up with the concept you know they just had to try it. Even if for nothing else than to mess with our heads.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1348826 01/13/10 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster

Then how would the 10 layers of management between the EEs and customers justify their existence? For god's sake, think of the poor suits and their bonuses.

.


LOL this is just so TRUE its scary .....


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1348832 01/13/10 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
I've probably owned 31 instruments, but only keep one or two at any given time. I used funds from instrument #1 to help pay for instrument #2 and so on. A wonderful addiction . . . !


My problem is I never get around to selling instrument #1 ... so I have things lying around I never use and never will but I just can't seem to part with them. And I still want more .... I really really really want a CP-80m but I cannot find one in good condition for a reasonable price.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1348863 01/13/10 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper


My problem is I never get around to selling instrument #1 ... so I have things lying around I never use and never will but I just can't seem to part with them. And I still want more .... I really really really want a CP-80m but I cannot find one in good condition for a reasonable price.


You know, it's strange you mention the old CP-80M...I gigged with one for quite some time...horrible low end, which was quite difficult to tune due to the shorter strings, but the instrument held it's tune overall remarkably well, but one seldom did a big concert without a tuning; at least not willingly. wink

It did a remarkably good job as an acoustic stage piano, although it was barely able to squeak under the title of "portable".

I never used the MIDI on mine...I had a Solina string machine on top of it, and my B-3 was next to it in an L configuration, and to my left...I played mostly Country music back then.

I sold mine a few years ago, after I retired; it was still in fairly good shape because I had good road cases...good CP-80M's are very rare, as the instrument was usually gigged (in place of a real grand)but you may be lucky to find one that got mostly studio work. They were very seldom purchased as a home piano.

Good luck in your search, and thanks for bringing back some good old memories.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
snazzyplayer #1348871 01/13/10 07:37 PM
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Played the CP-80 on a 12-month gig in a London theater back in the 80s. Loved it. It was tuned weekly, particularly as the band was positioned on the upper floor of a moving stage-set and the whole contraption shook alarmingly with each motion. Had a Jupiter-8 (if memory serves) on top. What fun!


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1348881 01/13/10 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Then how would the 10 layers of management between the EEs and customers justify their existence?


I know what an ET is. What's an EE?

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Rille Stark #1348882 01/13/10 07:48 PM
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One more day, and perhaps the flow (trickle) of information will increase re: the CP1 / CP5 / CP50.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1348901 01/13/10 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
I know what an ET is. What's an EE?

They are somewhat similar, in that most assume they both come from another planet.

Electrical Engineer (me).

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
snazzyplayer #1348930 01/13/10 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer

You know, it's strange you mention the old CP-80M...I gigged with one for quite some time...horrible low end, which was quite difficult to tune due to the shorter strings, but the instrument held it's tune overall remarkably well, but one seldom did a big concert without a tuning; at least not willingly. wink
Snazzy


Yeah I sold my CP-80 (stupidly) about 1985 back then I figured with FM now running wild and sampling and sequencing beginning to really work that pretty much all traditional instruments were dinosaurs.We had just had a run of successful records and tours and we thought we knew everything there was to know about everything. I never quite got over selling it ,much like losing a beloved pet. I also sold (actually I gave them away believe it or not) my Rhodes Mk I suitcase and Mk 1 Stage 88 around the same time and I never got over that either. But I've got both of them back now plus a a shiny new Mk VII but the CP-80 has been harder to find many are trashed,parts are impossible to find and the ones in studios just don't come up for sale (they know they have a good thing thats irreplaceable). I wish it was as easy to get one as it was to get my C7 because I would have had one years ago if that was the case.
On the CP-80 sound when I played the CP1 it did have a VERY VERY good CP-80 ,best I've heard. So while the CP-80 might be dead its sound lives on quite well.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1349033 01/13/10 11:18 PM
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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1349049 01/13/10 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music

No disrespect to you Lawrence, and I truly appreciate the heads-up, but they seriously need to add that to www.webpagesthatsuck.com - I think they spent more engineering dollars on that web site than they do on most DPs.

Maybe it's me, but there's something very depressing about the title "Déjà vu... but new!" There is so little real innovation going on in the electronic music field right now. We keep falling back on emulations of things like the DX7, CP80, etc. which is fine - it was the golden age of EPs and synths and all - but where is the next big thing? If I see one more "virtual analog synth" I swear I'm going to hurl...

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1349060 01/13/10 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster

Maybe it's me, but there's something very depressing about the title "Déjà vu... but new!" There is so little real innovation going on in the electronic music field right now. We keep falling back on emulations of things like the DX7, CP80, etc. which is fine - it was the golden age of EPs and synths and all - but where is the next big thing? If I see one more "virtual analog synth" I swear I'm going to hurl...


I have to agree the sampling of an analog synth is stupid. But real analog synths aren't. They allow you to be creative and make sounds never before heard. A virtual analog synth can do the same thing.

If you are looking for innovation you are just not looking in the right place. It's all moved to computers.

But I'd like to see new kinds of keyboard too. Maybe the keys that can slide backwards and forwards to allows vibrato and note bending combine that with an analog synth ad also could play samples. What about keys with touch sensitive surfaces like the track pad on a notebook computer. A hundred things they might do, but no just samples of 50 year old Rhodes and B3s

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1349076 01/14/10 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster

No disrespect to you Lawrence, and I truly appreciate the heads-up, but they seriously need to add that to www.webpagesthatsuck.com - I think they spent more engineering dollars on that web site than they do on most DPs.



ROTFLMAO !!!!! Thats the funniest sh!t I've seen all day ...... so true , so stark so ...... hilariously bad how did Yamaha think that this rubbish would promote their DESIGN ??? Thats the worst crap ever !!!!
LOL


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1349087 01/14/10 12:45 AM
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Quote
Maybe it's me, but there's something very depressing about the title "Déjà vu... but new!" There is so little real innovation going on in the electronic music field right now. We keep falling back on emulations of things like the DX7, CP80, etc. which is fine - it was the golden age of EPs and synths and all - but where is the next big thing? If I see one more "virtual analog synth" I swear I'm going to hurl...


Dewster, I would have thought you've nothing but bile left to hurl. After all, certainly enough time has been spent on recreating the sound of an acoustic piano... I mean, the instrument is over 300 years old and you clearly lust for the ultimate digital replica (as do I). wink

With that said, there is clearly a reason why we pursue this endeavor. The same reason why you would want to have the sound of the DX7, Wurlitzer, CP80, etc. at your fingertips (including modeling the preamps, fx stages, and amplifiers). Because these instruments sound great. We love the pieces/songs that were written for them. I'd like to own them all, but the technological advancement is of course getting "those sounds" and "that feel" without owning them all.

I do agree, however, that recent advancements in modeling technology are leading us toward more expressive instruments. However, many of the current products (like Pianoteq and the V-Piano) do not necessarily sound better than a really well done sample library (I own VintAudio's C7 as well for EXS24). Perhaps the better solution right now is in fact a hybrid instrument offering the benefits of both sample libraries and modeling technology. A hybrid approach of sorts yielded Yamaha's AvantGrand, an instrument that caught the attention of many people on this forum.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1349208 01/14/10 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster

No disrespect to you Lawrence, and I truly appreciate the heads-up, but they seriously need to add that to www.webpagesthatsuck.com - I think they spent more engineering dollars on that web site than they do on most DPs.


I had only found the site last night, and then posted the link, 'cause it was bedtime.

When I checked it out this morning, including having my monitors turned on, I was left scratched my head. I thought it would hopefully offer some additional information about the CP1. Unless I'm missing something it just seems to be a few pictures, with a bit of lame background audio. Huh?

(Maybe I'm not navigating the site properly, but either way, I'm still left with huh?)

Lawrence

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