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#1876197 - 04/09/12 12:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]  
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Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

I'll take your word for it. I suppose then that I've only heard selections from his body of work that seem to immediately identify him as Pat Methany. Maybe my sample set is too small, or maybe I'm only focusing on certain aspects of his playing, but I find him to be one of the most identifiable players of his era.



Identifiable, yes, whatever style he plays in. But I don't see why that should be a negative. Keith Jarrett is also always identifiable whether he is playing straight ahead standards free improvisation or anything else (excepting classical maybe). I think it is a very positive thing that he has a recognisable voice regardless of what style he is playing in.


Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

Thanks for the list! I've not heard of most of these players before. Time for some CD buying again...



Check them on youtube before spending your money, you may not like them.

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#1876378 - 04/09/12 06:34 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]  
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Originally Posted by beeboss
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

I'll take your word for it. I suppose then that I've only heard selections from his body of work that seem to immediately identify him as Pat Methany. Maybe my sample set is too small, or maybe I'm only focusing on certain aspects of his playing, but I find him to be one of the most identifiable players of his era.



Identifiable, yes, whatever style he plays in. But I don't see why that should be a negative. Keith Jarrett is also always identifiable whether he is playing straight ahead standards free improvisation or anything else (excepting classical maybe). I think it is a very positive thing that he has a recognisable voice regardless of what style he is playing in.

No negative connotations whatsoever. I've got a bunch of Metheny albums and really admire the guy. I guess when I think of creativity though I think of pushing ones own boundaries until those boundaries shift. And those that do it best evolve I suppose, and the worst become stylized. In either case it makes neither a lesser musician.
...But when it comes down to it, really, it's just a problem of mine that I can't seem to want to listen to the same players, no matter how great, for too long in one sitting. I stopped attending live music concerts because it seemed the odds were against me that I'd enjoy sitting there for more than a few tunes. After the awe wore off of hearing the dazzling, flawless, and utterly beautiful music of most groups or individuals I'd tend to get a little restless and hope for something else.
In fact, of well over 200-300 live groups I've seen I can still only recall two vividly that I was totally enamored by. One was Bela Fleck, in particular Victor Wooten on bass, and the other was a solo tamborine player that was visiting my university that taught in Toronto. The guy played for over 30 minutes just on the tamborine and the entire audience was completely captivated. Too bad Youtube didn't exist back then.
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

Thanks for the list! I've not heard of most of these players before. Time for some CD buying again...


Originally Posted by beeboss

Check them on youtube before spending your money, you may not like them.

I've been on itunes adding to my wish list. Gwilym and Helge are some pretty cool players. I like Kevin HAYS too. When I first searched his name (Hayes) nothing came up except some country singer and a hockey player. But I dutifully watched as much as could of both players because I really trusted your judgement. You really let me down, Beeboss.

But seriously, how did you hear about some of these guys? I'm always amazed at how much talent is out there that I'd most likely never hear about unless I start taking the time to ask others. Itunes is a pretty interesting service too I've just discovered in that it makes recommendations and links to things other have bought that are similar to choices one's made.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1876410 - 04/09/12 07:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]  
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Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

I stopped attending live music concerts because it seemed the odds were against me that I'd enjoy sitting there for more than a few tunes. After the awe wore off of hearing the dazzling, flawless, and utterly beautiful music of most groups or individuals I'd tend to get a little restless and hope for something else.
In fact, of well over 200-300 live groups I've seen I can still only recall two vividly that I was totally enamored by.



Wow, I think you must be going to the wrong concerts;-)
But I suppose I do know some great musicians who never even listen to music. I remember being at a Zawinul master class once and somebody asked Joe which of the newer players he liked and he said that he never listened to new music.

Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

But seriously, how did you hear about some of these guys? I'm always amazed at how much talent is out there that I'd most likely never hear about unless I start taking the time to ask others.



Different places. I came across Helge Lien recently on the internet. Some of the others I have been listening to for decades. I guess when I find someone I like I go on to check out the people that they played with and then the people who played with them, and so it goes on. There is no shortage of great music out there to check out.

#1876763 - 04/10/12 11:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: Rune E]  
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Originally Posted by Rune E
Hi all,

As a self taught amateur pianist, unable to read music, I´m learning a lot on this forum. Thank you all for sharing! Wish I had discovered this site a long time ago.
I thought I would participate in this thread with a recording done on my brand new Tascam DP-24 multitrack recorder.
(Blue and Green in a slow tempo suits me fine as I get some time to think ;-)
Comments and criticism are welcomed.

Regards, /Rune

Blue, Green and DP-24


Hello Rune E. Nice version of Blue and Green! Yeah keep posting man. And welcome to the fray. Good to see some new blood.


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#1876771 - 04/10/12 11:48 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]  
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Originally Posted by beeboss
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy

I stopped attending live music concerts because it seemed the odds were against me that I'd enjoy sitting there for more than a few tunes. After the awe wore off of hearing the dazzling, flawless, and utterly beautiful music of most groups or individuals I'd tend to get a little restless and hope for something else.
In fact, of well over 200-300 live groups I've seen I can still only recall two vividly that I was totally enamored by.



Wow, I think you must be going to the wrong concerts;-)
But I suppose I do know some great musicians who never even listen to music. I remember being at a Zawinul master class once and somebody asked Joe which of the newer players he liked and he said that he never listened to new music.


Fortunately, we have records so the short term memory of a live concert can be relived. And I'm realizing now that ears have to grow and that there's always more to discover in the simplest things.

I'm sure we're all in different stages in ear development but having really good teachers has helped me realize things that I've never noticed on my own.

For this reason, I'm never cavalier about some top player's style. Yes, if you listen to McCoy Tyner, he will be recognizable with his quartals, but I'm sure there's something deeper to discover.

---

BTW Beeboss, I've seen Uri Caine live, and he can be totally out there. I suppose just like Pilc. I see your taste runs to the Avante-Gard set. smile How do you like Kenny Werner? He taps into that realm a lot too though I like him much better than the other two.



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#1876808 - 04/10/12 01:27 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Välkommen Rune! Här är ett celebert mix av jazzpianotokar med olika bakgrunder från olika delar av världen - så du kommer att passa bra in. smile

#1876832 - 04/10/12 01:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Originally Posted by jazzwee


BTW Beeboss, I've seen Uri Caine live, and he can be totally out there. I suppose just like Pilc. I see your taste runs to the Avante-Gard set. smile How do you like Kenny Werner? He taps into that realm a lot too though I like him much better than the other two.


I like all types of stuff. I used to see Cecil Taylor play quite a lot and that was a big influence, and I still like a lot of free improvisation although I generally find it more engaging to see it live.
Kenny Werner is a great player but I haven't heard that much of his that I thought was really amazing. Probably I just need to check some more of it out.
I saw him play at a workshop once and his skills were awesome.

#1877033 - 04/10/12 07:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: Rune E]  
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Originally Posted by Rune E
Hi all,

As a self taught amateur pianist, unable to read music, I´m learning a lot on this forum. Thank you all for sharing! Wish I had discovered this site a long time ago.
I thought I would participate in this thread with a recording done on my brand new Tascam DP-24 multitrack recorder.
(Blue and Green in a slow tempo suits me fine as I get some time to think ;-)
Comments and criticism are welcomed.

Regards, /Rune

Blue, Green and DP-24


Hey Rune, what happened to the link? Was it something that Chris said? wink


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1883445 - 04/21/12 04:59 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Here's a gig recording of Ceora. First try for me and the band. Sax player was nervous about surviving the head. Next is a A-Train with my new singer. She was a big hit. Didn't hurt that she was a hot looking chick.

I thought the Nord Piano sounded really realistic. I used minimal reverb.

Ceora
http://www.box.com/s/b495e60bc8623ccbc477


Take the A-Train
http://www.box.com/s/e0766710ad5094bafa05




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#1884028 - 04/22/12 12:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Here's another tune. First time I didn't get lost...but so what?

So What
http://www.box.com/s/6c3564a4122296d5b8b9


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#1884238 - 04/22/12 11:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Over the last month or so, I have committed a little over 50 tunes to memory. I can't imagine the amount of work it would be if I had to also play them in random keys like you are doing.
Sounds nice JW.

But what's happening with the quality, is it recorded on iphone or something? It's like both low signal but clipping at the same time. I could barely hear you at all. That said, that 16th note riff you play on Ceora is well done.

#1884274 - 04/22/12 12:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Nice JW! The band is definitely coming together. It sounds like you all gel.

#1884289 - 04/22/12 12:47 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Knotty, unfortunately, the crowd was really loud so there's no way to make a good recording. And the noisy people were really close to us so we couldn't blast them with volume either.

I admit it's tough to be playing new tunes all the time and changing keys. Doesn't bother the bass player though but it's really hard for the pianist to keep changing keys. But it does build up skills and I'm happy to note that the transpose button on my Nord has never been used.

I've played so many tunes now. I'm sure it's in the hundreds and in random keys. I never thought I'd be able to do that. I don't memorize the rare tune but iRealB has really been handy. It's not unusual to get to see the leadsheet 5 seconds before we count it down. Hard to solo well in that case but when playing with a vocalist, I'm just supporting anyway.

But as you can hear from Ceora, at least I'm getting to a certain minimum on a tune I haven't played before or practiced much. Besides, playing less has never been a bad thing, I find. Among us here there has been a higher expectation. Out there in gig-land, it's more of the whole package.

That said, the Sax player was sweating from playing the Ceora head. I just tried to play that head yesterday and the hand contortions with the pinky playing a lot of the melody was tough (16ths and triplet 8ths). Plus a really difficult rhythm. Whew! Good thing I just soloed.

I do have a lot of tunes memorized in standard keys. I didn't try to memorize them but constant playing just keeps it in my head. Often times, iRealB is just there for moral support.


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#1884292 - 04/22/12 12:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]  
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Originally Posted by chrisbell
Nice JW! The band is definitely coming together. It sounds like you all gel.


Thanks Chris! We play 3-4 times a month so that helps. I thought my comping was getting better and increasing the swing feel. Don't you think? Just felt like it.

But the jazz journey is very hard so we only make little inroads here and there. Appreciate the kind words.


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#1884304 - 04/22/12 01:23 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Yeah, your comping is sounding much better, more fluid.

#1889150 - 05/01/12 12:13 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Had a really fun gig last night. We did a couple of jazzy happy birthdays and let a singer sit in (who was amazingly good and sang Frank Sinatra style-- maybe some unemployed LA actor/singer) -- listen below. A trumpet player sat in too from the audience. So after all that, I find a huge stack of bills in the tip jar with so many $20's!

Anyway, I've never played the tune before so my eyes were just glued to the changes. I couldn't afford to get lost.

The only irritating thing was the guitar player comping over me and rhythmically off.

I've Got You Under My Skin (called by singer from the audience)
http://www.box.com/s/80a6f3ef6aa9677fcbf6

Anyway, a little of this audience catering and we get so popular. This is our second time to play in this venue. The word spread from our first visit and it was really crowded. Small place.


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#1889152 - 05/01/12 12:18 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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This is one of the times I've recorded on my Steinway. Really hard to get quiet time. I got one shot and no more tries due to noise. Piano needs to be tuned.

I really liked recording on the Steinway. I used a BIAB backing track I made and amplified it in the room and recorded using the Zoom H4. It sounds pretty real. No special microphones. I just put the Zoom H4 on the middle of the music desk and pointed into the strings and that's it.

Comments welcome (always is).

Sugar
http://www.box.com/s/bad1ba7ae8bf58dad04e


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#1889288 - 05/01/12 08:07 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Thanks for posting this. Sounds really nice. The piano comes out real clear and sounds great.
I like when you do the 2 handed melody. Watch not to rush it, but it sounds real good.


#1889372 - 05/01/12 11:48 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Thanks Knots. It got me excited about doing recordings on the Steinway. It's hard to get the quiet time to do it though. I have to do it in the middle of the day when the kids are at school.

I just did the unison head right there and I've never played the head before so I didn't have time to practice the fingering for the LH. Next time, I should be able to do a unison all the time. Yeah and I didn't realize I was rushing. Thanks for spotting that.

This is a tempo that is the most difficult for me.


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#1889376 - 05/01/12 12:01 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Hey Jazzwee... I think this recording of Sugar is some of your best playing! There's alot of really good lines with nice shaping, stopping points, and resolutions. Still some places that sound a little funny to me... like they either should have gone on or been stopped sooner, but all in all it's nice. And you're getting better at feeling the groove at this tempo I think.

Glad to hear your gigs are going well. My trio is getting stale these days. We haven't been rehearsing much since my bass player moved further away, and I haven't been able to get us a gig yet. But I've been on the hunt pretty consistently. There's just so much competition out there and doing what we do is harder to sell I think.

#1889389 - 05/01/12 12:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Scott, thanks for the comments! I did this in one shot and I didn't re-record. So when I listened to it, I knew I should have stopped at some points instead of just rambling. I thought it got better as I was further in.

I re-recorded it while being conscious of the rambling but it didn't seem to work. It sounded stale (though with better structure). Sometimes it's best to just take it with warts and accept that it's never perfect. Hopefully there's always enough 'good bits' (as Beeboss would say) that it still comes out well overall.

I guess it's something to practice but not something to think about when performing. The better players have all this honed down at the subconscious level so someday, it'll sink in. smile



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#1889406 - 05/01/12 01:00 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Hey Scott, just a gig comment...

My last gig was actually publicized as a jazz gig all over town so the crowd was your typical jazz crowd (you can tell from the people making comments while we play - "allright!" or "go girl"!) and less background noise. I should have been intimidated but based on the tip jar, the band did really well (best ever actually).

Usually, I cater to a more general crowd so I always have vocals and do some easy swing (A-Train kind of stuff). Now I see we can take more risks.

This was a transition to a more critical crowd (people who actually know jazz), so it was a new phase for me. No wonder there were people in the crowd who were able to sit in. Could have been scary if there was some hot shot there... smile


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#1889442 - 05/01/12 02:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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There are a LOT of hot shots here in the Chicago area. And the serious jazz people know who they are and where to find them... not any place I'll be playing! smile

There are some spots billed for jazz where the more "mediocre" players are around here, but not nearly enough to hold all the "mediocre" players. Seems like blues bands and singers take up most of those places. I'm just kind of stuck in a middle place... not easily accessible for the average person, but not good enough for the real jazz heads.

#1889454 - 05/01/12 02:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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LOL - no doubt who the serious players are over here too (and where I belong). First of all there's a cover. smile Mine was listed as no cover charge.

Fortunately, I don't have to carry the band since it's not a trio. Trio is tough man. the attention is all on the pianist. You have a lot of guts to do that (and obviously the skill). I'm not ready for that.

Speaking of hot shots...

I got tickets in May for Brad Mehldau Trio, and Chick Corea/Dejohnette/Stanley Clarke (in a couple of weeks).





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#1889507 - 05/01/12 04:36 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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Jazzwee: That's a couple of great concerts. Brad Mehldau's new CD Ode is great, but then I love anything with that trio. Corea, well, he never does anything I don't like.

I've been lucky given my recent flitation with Latin jazz that I just got to see Eddie Palmieri, and this weekend Poncho Sanchez and Terrance Blanchard are bringing their tribute to Dizzy and Chano to town. (By the way, if you get a chance to see the animated film Chico and Rita don't miss it).

Scott: I know what you're up against here in Chicago. We've got SO many great local musicians. The success stories I hear are of people who make the opportunity, which means going to places that don't have music or jazz, and convincing them they should. Tough road to travel. If you're interested in a place to play for $50 (total) and a free meal, however, let me know.

#1889739 - 05/02/12 12:52 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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jjo, wow- I would like to know what you are learning in Latin Jazz. I play a good amount of Latin jazz in my gigs (maybe 50%). I can pass but I probably couldn't comp any complex latin rhythms.

Lately, modern jazz performances I've seen have some hybrid of Latin (i.e. straight but more free flowing than Bossa) and really no swing. Even Herbie. It's not even latin really but just unstructured non-swing.

I've seen Poncho Sanchez. He gets the crowd going.


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#1889899 - 05/02/12 09:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]  
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What I'm primarily learning is how to play montunnos, which is the heart of latin jazz for piano. I'm also learning how to feel the clave. There are different patterns for cha cha mambo and other forms. It's hard becuase no one can define these different forms; its just a feel. It's a real challenge but a lot of fun. Soloing is also quite different. It's not about finding a nice melody. It's really much more percussive.

Latin jazz people, by the way, don't really consider the bossa nova, or "latin feel," that most jazz folks play real latin jazz.

#1889924 - 05/02/12 10:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member
chrisbell  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted by jjo
What I'm primarily learning is how to play montunnos, . .

This book is really good!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1882146549/

btw: when I asked a latin-american friend what was important when learning to play Latin he said; "learn to dance". So my wife and I are signing up for Mambo classes.

#1889927 - 05/02/12 10:43 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 912
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member
jjo  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 912
Chicago
chrisbell: I already have that book! I've taken a few lessons from a latin jazz player, which is really what is needed. While the book shows hots of montunnos, it doesn't teach taste: what kind of montunno works in what kind of piece.

I think the suggestion to dance makes tons of sense. Not sure how to ask my wife so sign up for mambo lessons, however.

#1889944 - 05/02/12 11:12 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member
chrisbell  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted by jjo
I think the suggestion to dance makes tons of sense. Not sure how to ask my wife so sign up for mambo lessons, however.
A candle lit dinner, some wine, mambo in the CD . . "honey, . . . . ".
wink

or get hold of Mambo Kings play songs of love - the movie. There's a several steamy dance scenes to be inspired by . . .

Last edited by chrisbell; 05/02/12 11:14 AM.
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