Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Yamaha P155 - D2 rings - is it the sample or a defect?

You may have a case of microphonics (check link). I don't have any on my Casio piano, but I do have on a bass amp. I dug in, found the responsible part, and padded it a bit so it wouldn't resonate (no one expects you to do this yourself on your Yamaha, of course. :-)

But he said the effect occurs when headphones are used.

Thank you, Michael. Do you think this is repairable by Yamaha?

Lorna

Chris, it could be something as simple as the key being next to a capacitor, and the knock of the key triggering it.

Lorna, if you have a problem, and no one else has it, I would say that it's Yamaha's job to make it right.

I was mistaken in the labeling of the key as D2 - that would be in the bass. However, the ringing occurs on two notes in the octave above middle C, the D and C#.

Yamaha Customer Service recommended that I restore the piano to the default settings and to listen again. And yes, it's still there.

I have contacted a certified technician and he suspects it's in the sample.

I'm going to a music store soon to listen to their floor model with and without headphones. Then I'll know for sure one way or another and take it from there.

Thanks to all. I'll let you know. Other than the ringing, I enjoy this piano very much. I look forward to making recordings soon.

Lorna

If you hear it in two adjacent notes, it's definitely the sample. On my keyboard (Yamaha YDP-223), and I suspect on yours as well, each of 30 samples is shared by 2 or 3 adjacent keys, and is pitched up or down as appropriate. The easiest way to identify the range of keys for each sample: Listen with headphones, play chromatically up or down the keyboard, and pay attention to the stereo position of each note.

I think my YDP-223 may have the same ringing note, but I remember it being higher up on the keyboard, either 2 or 3 octaves above middle C. I started using Pianoteq last year, so I haven't paid much attention to the internal sounds lately, but I will look for the ringing note later tonight.

Re your subsequent post re Piano 2 ringing, on my trusty P80 (now in storage) Piano 2 was just a filtered Piano 1 - darker, less clear. I suspect that it's the same with P155. Your hearing must be really sensitive, to detect the ringing thru the filtering.

Once something starts bothering you, it's very difficult to make it stop. That's what drove me to buying software pianos. (In my case it was just a general dissatisfaction with the timbre and quality of the P80's included sounds.)

Galaxy II's Vienna Grand - a Bosendorfer - is my current daily player. I *think* that there's a playable demo here and, of course, there are demos on the Best Service site.

In general site demos are heavy on fast, thick passages and light on slow passages with exposed notes. I don't know how to listen past that.

I got curious about this, I just purchased my P155 this month, and I'm ecstatic about it. I grew up with a grand piano in my home, so it's very comforting to finally have something I can play in my apt and not disturb the populace. From what I can discern the ringing you point out is part of the sample/overtones. I'm guessing you're referring to the notes in question played with the sustain pedal down. Remember, past a certain point on an acoustic piano there are 3 strings struck simultaneously to "voice" a note. Also keep in mind that stringed instruments produce a fairly complex series of frequencies that include the base and harmonic derivitives. Even if it were just 1 string struck, a harmonic series is present. Given that the GP1 setting is supposed to be Yamaha's concert flagship recorded, we have to assume that the mic's picked up the harmonics as well. What I hear when I strike those keys with the sustain down (with audio-phile quality head phones on) is an in-tune upper register harmonic off of the D in question. But I hear the harmonics on alot of the notes, just an arbitrary sampling of keys smacked solo with the sustain down. I dabble in guitar (electric and acoustic) as well, and string harmonics is something that guitar players try to understand too. The difference being that on a guitar you can exploit the physics of them to your liking.

I expect that you'll hear exactly the same thing on a floor model p155. How this affects you is entirely up to your ear, and what you define as pleasant. I hope you'll find the answer you're looking for and the DP that suits your ear.

I'm by no means an expert in any of the subjects covered, and I could be DEAD wrong in everything but I figured heck I'm up, it's early and I needed something to do ^.^

Thank you Nevkil, Voltara and Fogvillelad,
I think you all have it right. Tomorrow I'm travelling to Guitar Center to check out their floor model. I have heard from another P155 owner who says he hears slight ringing, and it doesn't bother him, but he has less sensitive ears than mine.

If it's truly in the sample, why on earth would Yamaha release a piano with such a "flaw"? The other notes don't have that problem. So perhaps, since it came from their flagship piano, the harmonics are acceptable to Yamaha. I wanted the sparkling tones from Yamaha's sample, but it really is an upset to hear the ringing on C#,D, and D#. I find myself intentionally playing those notes softer. It's inhibiting and annoying.

I'll listen to the Roland RD700GX also to detect any similar harmonics.

I'll report back what I learn tomorrow! Thanks again for all your answers.

OK, I think I may hear this too. It certainly does not bother me because it is something I'm not sure I hear. But if I play those notes with the damper pedal I hear what sounds like a cyclic high ptich the comes and goes at abut maybe 1Hz.

Try turning the damper resonance on and off (Function F5.8) and see if that controls the ring. It works for me. But this would happen if I mistook resonance for what you hear.

If you are very critical of the sound you can always get a sample library and play it in a sampler virtual instrument like ESX24. Then you have exact bit by bit control over the sound of every key. The wave forms are editable

Maybe this weekend I'll look at FFT spectrums of a few keys. I want to learn how to do that anyways,

This is really, really good advice ChrisA.

Like I said above, the resonance modeling is a delay-based effect in this Yamaha line, and sounds rather bad when turned up.

Lorna, please try the following:

1. Turn F5.8 off.
2. Reduce F5.3 to zero.
3. Turn off the reverb.
4. Is the buzz different with/without damper pedal?

And get back to us.

Thanks, Dewster and ChrisA! I visited the floor model and verified that the ring is present in the sample on the C#, D, and D# in the octave above middle C. The floor model volume was all the way up and yet the ring and volume was less than on my piano. I found it odd that the volume was so low on their piano. Perhaps they adjust the volume so people don't play so loudly in the store?

I just tried your suggestion, Dewster, and the ring is far minimized (but not absent) at those settings, and the three notes seem more similar in tone to other notes. However, the piano sounds rather lifeless without some sustain resonance, especially for classical music.

I experimented and set the piano to MELLOW brilliance, and SOFT touch. I then increased the settings on F5.3 (sustain sample depth), F5.4 (key-off sample), F5.9 (damper resonance effect) for a richer grand piano sound. I avoid striking the 3 notes strongly.

So, I am "training my mind" to not be so offended by the ring and modifying my touch slightly. Overall, I love the piano sample, and it's a great pleasure to play this piano.

While I was in the music store, I tried out the Roland RD700GX just for fun. I heard ringing on the same 3 notes on one of the piano samples on the Roland and ringing on other notes in other samples. So, it's not specific to Yamaha.

I will look at piano software - something new to consider. I'm not a tech whiz, but I could probably learn it.

Thanks for helping me with this. I guess we all determined that the ringing is in the sample and that it's audible in varying degrees depending on a person's hearing sensitivity.

I have a Clavinova CLP 330 and I can hear the same "ringing" you're refering about. At first I found it annoying but now I'm getting used to it. Maybe a CFIIIS has this issue.

I have not Yamaha and can not hear "ringing", but it is very interesting. Can I ask someone to post a record with this problem on youtube or just mp3 on any fileserver?

I hear it on my p155 too, but I have to turn it up pretty loud. I would say my ear sensitivity is about average. Hope that helps.

I just got a P-155 yesterday and I think I'm going crazy. I hear ringing on the notes between F and B in the octave above middle C. It happens as soon as I hit the note, whether the sustain pedal is pressed down or not. The notes above and below this set of notes are fine. The ringing is much more apparent when I use headphones (ATH-M40fs). Incidentally, I don't hear the ringing on C#, D and D#. Am I just really sensitive to these frequencies? I used to play on grand pianos (Yamaha C5 and Steinway A), but never really noticed any ringing when playing them.

I have tried the suggestions of F5.8 and F5.3, but they don't really help. Also is there a way to make the piano sound even mellower than the mellow setting?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Maybe you could post a recording. Play a two octave scale slowly through that set of notes.

How to make it more mellow - use the second piano voice or a software instrument sample of a large European grand piano.

Or hook up a graphic equaliser between the line out and speakers. Something like this
10 band EQ

An interesting post. When I bought my Kawai RX6, I traded my RX2 for the bigger model because the RX2 had several ringing notes! They drove me crazy!! No tech could fix it, no amount of voicing could fix it...so back to the shop it went. Now it seems to me that the samples used for these digital pianos may have ringing issues.

What piano are the P155's sampled from? I don't know. The new 500 series CVP and CLP clavinovas use the "newly introduced CF111S concert grand samples". I would be calling Yamaha to find out.

I just got my p155 today and had the same problem. Ended up turning the "keyoff sample volume" down to 0 and that fixed it, its F5.4 hope that helps.

Hello, I have a p155b and i have recently started hearing a sharp noise everytime i would play the middle C, Key D. I also have quite sensitive ears, so it could just be me, but other keys do not have a smiliar sound. Anyone know what the problem could be?
Thanks.