Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Hysterical tunings etc...

Can someone please tell me why folks are so interested in historical tunings when many out there can't set an equal temperament worth it's name, set a pin, stretch an octave and basically tune a piano that will stay tuned.

Is it the 'next big thing' to distract us away from getting excellent at the basic task in hand...?

I can understand the mystique and the 'Oh goodness me, so you tune historical tunings, you must be SO good' aspects of this....but lets get real here...

There is no doubt that historical tunings play a valuable role in understanding why things were written the way they were and to many ears give a more pleasant rendering of a given piece....but come on you beginners out there...and you 'improvers'....learn to tune solidly first...do that for a long time...internalize the process...then starts to mess with the esoteric stuff.

Glad that's off my chest....thought it was the dodgy burrito I had for lunch at the 'roach coach'....but i feel much better now....

Stuart Isacoff gives a great presentation I think everyone should hear.
His book "The Temperment" is a great read.

Ed Foote has a great presentation I would like to hear.

It has been said, 70% of the skill set for tuning is Hammer Technique.

I say, the other 30% is better understood learning all the temperaments.

It is all part and parcel of the the same skill.

And, I think, it gives the equal temperament a more distinct feel to have experienced the alternatives.

my 2.5 cents

The roach coach? Sounds like the "grease trucks" back in college, dispensing burgers that only a college student could keep down

Happy new year!

A historical tuning is by definition a tuning which is not equal temperament, the pins are not set, the octaves are not tuned properly, that will not stay tuned.

It's called freedom to choose what one does with ones own time.

byronje3, freedom is worth dying for....

I'm not interested in bird watching, stamp collecting or what folks do in their spare time....it's what a customer pays for that bothers me....a tuning that is unstable is worthless....and so is the tuner who charges good money for providing that sort of service....historical tuning are a distraction unless you have a bullet proof technique...too many out there are not paying their dues with the basic structure of the business...and tuning is but a part of a much more ugly picture.

I know, I hear you but it's not like they're out robbing banks and beating up little old ladies. I don't know how well someone tunes until I hear it for myself.
It can all be a learning experience. I thought I was all excited about Werckmeister and Kirnberger tunings for a very short time until I realized that some music just sounds like crap with them. I'll stick to good old ET. I personally find satisfaction in doing a good, solid, anatomically correct ET with octaves and unisons just the way I like them.

Lately I've been wasting my time learning about, listening to, and programming binaural beats. I don't mean the stuff with all the new age gobbly guk music added to it, just the raw beats. What does this have to do with piano tuning you ask?
Listening to a certain frequency of binaural beats relaxes the brain after a day of tuning and slows it down for sleep.
This can be a great tool for piano tuners. The better your sense of hearing the more powerful the experience.

I disagree. Historical tunings, by definition do not include "poor pin setting"

I will admit to only minimal experience with Historical temperaments. The small experience I have had does make me wish I had more time to explore them. Stuart Isacoff's presentation is nothing short of stunning.

I'll stick to 30 year old Laphroig....relaxes my brain just fine...sleep is no problem...
Now let me see...
One binaural beat..
two binaural beats
three binaural beats
four binaural beats....

I think I see what you mean.....woops....no, it's someone knocking at the door....

That's funny. "poor pin setting"...NO. "Octaves not tuned properly and will not stay tuned"......well,OK maybe.

I think....that possibly, BDB was just being cheeky with that statement....then again, maybe not.

I completely missed BDB's "twist" ....

Thanks

Ha! Peter, good joke!

Tuning is a little like being a pizza maker... You can be a great pizza maker at one place and not have a clue how to make a pizza at the next place. Now, not to diss your kinda pizza, but there's a lot more out there than that good new-fashioned ET.

There's plenty of crap ET tuners out there, ('specially those aural ones) why don't you go pick on them?

Howzthat for stirring up the hornet's nest?!?

Ron Koval
chicagoland

Actually, there are plenty of historical references to pianos going out of tune during a single concert, including concerts where there were two pianos on stage for one pianist. The pianist would play one piece, and then switch to the other piano while the first was retuned and repaired, as necessary.

Because it is FUN!

You know what? Whoever wants to tune whatever method they like, go for it. What matters most is the final sound of the piano and setting the pins properly so the piano stays put. If someone likes the EBVT method, fine. ET method, fine. Whatever stirs your bean pot.

On the other hand, if you can't tune or set pins worth a crap and never could? That's not fine. Learn how or change jobs. None of these tunings will work for you because the piano will not stay no matter what tuning method you use.

Maybe I just stirred up some more hornets? Killer bee's?

Yeah, but you're not out charging people to experiment on their pianos, so it's OK. I'm not sure who Peter was referring to. Maybe there are some goons running amok in the Redwoods with their ETD's set on Schmergusborger or whatever.

bryronje3....
I'm not really referring to anyone particular when I make comments about either historical tunings or bad technique....
Sure there are 'theoretical tuners' in these pages that can spout about all manner of math....most of which I forgot the day the college door closed behind me...I am, however, a perennial student of voicing, regulation, tone and good tuning, and it is obvious to me that some out there use their time to study other temperaments, at the expense, in some cases, of the quality of the 'bread and butter' work...

Someone once said that in order to be successful you need to learn how to do something well and then keep on doing it....

I don't think it's an overstatement to observe the number of 'theoretical' variety in these pages and consider it might be diluting the standards professionals should adhere to.

Some may be enthusiastic amateurs....some may not ever see a client....but isn't a rock solid tuning that brings a piano to life the best service we can offer?
If you can do an historical temperament and leave it solid through Rach 3 I'll follow you anywhere....but, I ask myself, why would anyone do an historic temperament for Rach 3.

Right now I believe I'm talking to myself which I blame entirely on Laphroig....I wonder what will happen when I actually drink some??

No, actually, I tend to agree with you Peter. I don't even read the math crap posted in here. The mathematical rumblings going on in here seem almost more of who knows more about math than they actually do about tuning and setting pins. I begin to wonder, who's trying to prove what?

Wouldn't it be interesting to see what kind of tunings these same people can do and how long they would last?

I for one, have heard Bill Bremmer's tunings in person. i worked with him on a tuning at the last convention. He has a good ear and can do a very nice job of tuning.

That's my opinion on it anyway.

Thanks Jer...
Often thought of a 'tune off"....then a pound the crap out of them to see which stays in tune...

I'm in...

Who's buying the beer?

Hope you're keeping warm up there :-(

If you're ever in this neck of the woods, drop in and find out what our weather is like! Just be sure to bring along your winter bear coat!