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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Pianisti #1340760 01/04/10 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianisti
Sequential Access - Read: Up to 170MB/s

<snip>

I think you would still need atleast some kind of fast ram for this system to work? That 170 MB/s is not enough, but it could be enough to feed the memory buffer of about 1GB or something. Why not just put 8GB-16GB of memory and load all needed samples to memory on start-up?

You only need that full bandwidth if someone mashed 64 keys all at once and you wanted a realistic representation of that.

SSDs are much faster than regular hard drives - if you can run a PC sampler off of a regular hard drive (and you can) then it should run even better off of a SSD.

No need to load all samples at start-up, streaming from a conventional HD has worked fine for years now.

Originally Posted by Pianisti
But, if you would want any kind of adjustable effects in order to mimic the acoustics of a concert hall for example, it would require a lot more computing power or some kind of DSP.

The processor doesn't really do that much in a sample playback environment. I'm sure there would be cycles to spare for reverb and the like. You can always use a sample that captures the room acoustics too.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341110 01/05/10 02:09 AM
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Ok I am back from the demo with the CP1 (and the CP5, CP50) and although i only had about 10 mins with each board and couldn't record any samples I can offer a opinion of sorts.
1) Keyboard ... its very good in fact close your eyes and you simply wouldn't be able to tell. I strongly suspect its the same or a very similar keyboard that's used in the Aavant Grand series and along the same lines as the V-Piano keyboard. Both the CP1 and CP5 have this same keyboard and its good. The CP50 has a different keyboard same as the S90XS I think and its very good but not quite like the others that really do feel authentic.
2) AP sounds ...the CP1 has 2 each of the SCM patches from the S6 and CFIII grands the CP5 has one of each. In AP (S6b -1) the sound was excellent noticeably better then my S90Xs which has the same S6 patch (a normal sample not the SCM) The Yamaha tech informed me that SCM is not sampling or modeling but rather a combination taking the best of each. The S6B SCM (1) on the CP1 was noticeably brighter then the CP5 in the mid-range but the 2nd S6 sample was a softer more traditional Yamaha sound. In the short time I had to play the boards I did not notice any obvious stretching or looping even when I tried however to my ear there are still some artifacts in the decay but its doubtful you would describe them as looping its a more acoustic artifact you sometimes hear on older pianos and I cannot even be sure I didn't imagine it. It is not unpleasant or noticeable. The CP1 sounded better and more rounded in both CFIII patches then the CP5 did in its one CFIII patch but both were more then acceptable (to my ear) and sounded better then the Advent Grand we played as well. Both piano's I felt were a improvement on the already excellent S90XS S6 based AP as was the CP50 which while offering the same keyboard as the S90XS was a nicer AP sound.
3)The pick of the bunch for me was the CP5 which has really nice strings and Clav's as well as some of the better EP's from the CP1 plus normal Yamaha range ( a lot of my S90XS's sounds were there). The CP1 has amazing EP's ...great Rhodes (5 of them !) Controls look good for stage use and the CP1 offers almost infinite adjustment similar to the V-Piano. The CP5 appears to offer similar but less intricate adjustment. I didn't get into the tech stuff much more then that. I can't help feel I personally would be happy with either but I'm not as picky as some ;-)

All three of these cases are well built and would take punishment on the road but the CP1 and to only a slightly lesser extent the CP5 are simply beautiful too ...very retro...very slick looking boards. I'm not sold on the displays but they are easy to read however to my eye while looking retro also look slightly "cheap" and don't really fit with the nice polished buttons.

In conclusion ... It sounds promising but I'm not singing its praises to the really picky bunch in here just yet. I'd like to spend a few hours alone with each of them before I'd do that. But from what I heard today I'm encouraged.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341183 01/05/10 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
AP sounds ...the CP1 has 2 each of the SCM patches from the S6 and CFIII grands the CP5 has one of each. In AP (S6b -1) the sound was excellent noticeably better then my S90Xs which has the same S6 patch (a normal sample not the SCM) The Yamaha tech informed me that SCM is not sampling or modeling but rather a combination taking the best of each. The S6B SCM (1) on the CP1 was noticeably brighter then the CP5 in the mid-range but the 2nd S6 sample was a softer more traditional Yamaha sound.

So the CP5 AP sound does not match any of the CP1 sounds? How much difference is there in sound quality is between CP1, CP5 and Avant Grand AP? Do you think the CP1 is worth the added money over the CP5?

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
The pick of the bunch for me was the CP5 which has really nice strings and Clav's as well as some of the better EP's from the CP1 plus normal Yamaha range ( a lot of my S90XS's sounds were there). The CP1 has amazing EP's

Not sure what you're saying. You picked the CP5 because it has more/other sounds than the CP1? Or because it's cheaper while still having good sounds? Does the CP5 has any sounds the CP1 does not have? It would be great if you could bring some light into the sound/feature jungle. I'm totally unsure right now whether the CP5 has anything the CP1 does not have.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Aavant Grand

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Advent Grand

<shrink mode> It seems you don't like the Avant Grand very much? grin </shrink mode>

Last edited by madshi; 01/05/10 06:35 AM.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341185 01/05/10 06:35 AM
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Great review Dr. Popper!

I hope to try out the new CPs this week, if I find the time.

Five different Rhodes patches on the CP1 sounds just up my street! I wonder how they compare to the new SV-1 or the Nord Electro 3?

Cheers,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
madshi #1341195 01/05/10 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi

So the CP5 AP sound does not match any of the CP1 sounds?


It's clear from examining the block diagrams that the AP and EP piano sounds will not sound the same, when comparing the CP1 and CP5.

Looking at the SCM Block Diagram demonstrates this.

AP: The CP1 has a preamp stage and a speaker simulator stage that he CP5 lacks.

EP: The CP1 has the simulator stag that the CP5 lacks.

Check out the bottom of the CP Comparison Chart (and the rest of the chart, for that matter) to get some clarity on the differences between the models.

Lawrence

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
madshi #1341198 01/05/10 07:40 AM
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The CP1 has just pianos the CP5 has the most of the pianos plus a lot of other patches , strings ,clav's, guitars etc its a more full featured board rather then a specialist DP only like the C1.

Personally for me the CP5 makes more sense. If you play a lot of Acoustic then the CP1 makes more sense as it has a few more AP patches.

There is little difference in the quality of the sounds between the CP1 and CP5 they are simply different just like no two acoustic pianos are the same.

I liked the Avant Grand just fine but I also saw a couple of other boards today both DP's, GDP's and others none of which I can discuss publicly that I was more impressed with.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341210 01/05/10 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I liked the Avant Grand just fine but I also saw a couple of other boards today both DP's, GDP's and others none of which I can discuss publicly that I was more impressed with.


What a tease!


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341258 01/05/10 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I liked the Avant Grand just fine but I also saw a couple of other boards today both DP's, GDP's and others none of which I can discuss publicly that I was more impressed with.

You played with a Gross Domestic Product? Wasn't the country that it belongs to rather upset?

OK, I Googled it and everything & I give up: what's GDP?

You probably can't answer this, but did you see anything in the same price range as the CP50 ($1700 USD) with a better AP sound? I'd be happy with a recording quality AP in a rackmount or desktop box too.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341261 01/05/10 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I liked the Avant Grand just fine but I also saw a couple of other boards today both DP's, GDP's and others none of which I can discuss publicly that I was more impressed with.

You played with a Gross Domestic Product? Wasn't the country that it belongs to rather upset?

OK, I Googled it and everything & I give up: what's GDP?

You probably can't answer this, but did you see anything in the same price range as the CP50 ($1700 USD) with a better AP sound? I'd be happy with a recording quality AP in a rackmount or desktop box too.

I believe GDP just refers to Grand Digital Piano. I'm curious as to what these new DPs are going to do to the prices of the current CP33 (circa $1100) and CP300 $2100. Seems there may be some discounts to be had pretty soon thumb
- SC


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341291 01/05/10 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
[
You played with a Gross Domestic Product? Wasn't the country that it belongs to rather upset?

OK, I Googled it and everything & I give up: what's GDP?

You probably can't answer this, but did you see anything in the same price range as the CP50 ($1700 USD) with a better AP sound? I'd be happy with a recording quality AP in a rackmount or desktop box too.


Avant Grand,CGP-1000,CVP-409GP.etc etc .Grand digital Pianos :-)

I didn't see anything @$1700 or less that was as good (AP wise) as the CP50 but the CP was a noticeable step down from the CP5.
I did however see another interesting product (not strictly a DP) that offered a new and superior AP patch ( to current ones) that I can't discuss. I saw some other nice AP sounds in a couple of other expensive unannounced products. I didn't get long enough with any one board to reach any conclusions.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341385 01/05/10 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I didn't see anything @$1700 or less that was as good (AP wise) as the CP50 but the CP was a noticeable step down from the CP5.

I'm confused. From the features comparison chart they show the CP50 with one CFIIIS SCM block. Shouldn't that block be the same patch as the one on the other two models and thus sound the same? Granted, it doesn't have the same effects chain, but I generally don't want to use compressed preamps or speaker simulations on an AP patch.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341407 01/05/10 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
The CP1 has just pianos the CP5 has the most of the pianos plus a lot of other patches , strings ,clav's, guitars etc its a more full featured board rather then a specialist DP only like the C1.

So the CP1 has "no strings attached" at all? Not even as a background layer in combination with a nice EP? I'd find that rather weak. How about the DX7 sounds? Does the CP1 have those?

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Personally for me the CP5 makes more sense. If you play a lot of Acoustic then the CP1 makes more sense as it has a few more AP patches.

I find that a quite stupid decision on Yamaha's side. The CP1's price is so much higher than the CP5. The CP1 should have all the features the CP5 has and then some. Shouldn't Yamaha try their best to attract consumers to the most expensive model? Instead they rather seem to try not to sell the CP1.

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I liked the Avant Grand just fine but I also saw a couple of other boards today both DP's, GDP's and others none of which I can discuss publicly that I was more impressed with.

Can you say in which time frame these other interesting (G)DPs are expected to be publically announced? Or in other words: How long should I wait before I can "safely" decide on my next DP purchase without getting immediate buyers remorse? I'm in need of a new DP, but I guess I can wait a few weeks/months, so...

Thanks!

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
madshi #1341443 01/05/10 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi
I find that a quite stupid decision on Yamaha's side. The CP1's price is so much higher than the CP5. The CP1 should have all the features the CP5 has and then some. Shouldn't Yamaha try their best to attract consumers to the most expensive model? Instead they rather seem to try not to sell the CP1.

Agree 100%. I can only assume that after cramming all those APs and DPs into the CP1 they must have run out of space in that gold plated, diamond encrusted, platinum sample memory they only seem to use in DPs.

Originally Posted by madshi
How long should I wait before I can "safely" decide on my next DP purchase without getting immediate buyers remorse?

As soon as they make something you can barely live with, which in my case seems like it might be never.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341646 01/05/10 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I did however see another interesting product (not strictly a DP) that offered a new and superior AP patch ( to current ones) that I can't discuss. I saw some other nice AP sounds in a couple of other expensive unannounced products.


Further additions to the Avant Grand range? An N1 perhaps?

Cheers,
James
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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341688 01/05/10 06:19 PM
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Its not the same board ...the CP1 and CP5 sound much nicer.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341692 01/05/10 06:22 PM
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To clear it up

the CP1 = V-Piano competitor
the CP5 = RD700GX competitor
the CP50= RD300GX competitor

All do the job they were designed for.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1341870 01/05/10 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
To clear it up

the CP1 = V-Piano competitor
the CP5 = RD700GX competitor
the CP50= RD300GX competitor

All do the job they were designed for.

OK, now I'm completely confused.

If Yamaha is playing games by downgrading the supposed same sample sets from the CP1 to the CP5/50 then I'm not sure I want to buy anything from Yamaha ever again.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341888 01/05/10 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Dr Popper
To clear it up

the CP1 = V-Piano competitor
the CP5 = RD700GX competitor
the CP50= RD300GX competitor

All do the job they were designed for.

OK, now I'm completely confused.

If Yamaha is playing games by downgrading the supposed same sample sets from the CP1 to the CP5/50 then I'm not sure I want to buy anything from Yamaha ever again.


Huh? What's confusing? If you listed the prices for each of the above models, it makes sense. I don't think Yamaha is playing games. I do think that they should have called the CP1 something quite different from the CP5 and CP50. (Like Y-Piano and RD-700YAM and RD-300YAM).

Still confusing? Not to me!

Lawrence

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1341897 01/05/10 10:59 PM
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It makes sense here too.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1341917 01/05/10 11:36 PM
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The sample sets are the same the processing is different according to the model the CP1 has higher quality processing then the CP5 which is better then the CP50 etc

Its similar to Roland's V-Piano, RD700GX , RD300GX or Kawai's MP8, MP5 etc ....

Look here for a comparison chart between the CP1,CP5 and CP50....

CP series comparison chart

Last edited by Dr Popper; 01/05/10 11:40 PM.

"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
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