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Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
LisztAddict #1338640 01/01/10 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I am not exactly sure how to say "szczÄ™" but ...

Szczęśliwego nowego roku!!! smile


Quite right you are! Elene and LA, wish you were among my pupils:)They often misspell the consonants and you don’t;) Mr. Callberg, ChA, Frycek, Kathleen and all who is reading us, Happy New Year to you, good luck in the preparations for celebrating the 200th Chopin’s anniversary! I’m happy I’ve found you and am among you! The thread is so vivid and I’ve learned from it a lot of new facts! I’ve not been here for 2 days only and look – there is plenty information to read and to think over!
Congratulations for those who keep this thread! Chopin is not dead till he is in our hearts, thoughts and till we are playing/ listening to his music!

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Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Elene #1338656 01/01/10 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Elene
Let's try, shall we? Before we get moderated?

Elene
(Self-Appointed Propriety Cop)


Donno. Being Moderated confers on one a certain amount of panache and distinction. Rather like dueling scars.


Slow down and do it right.
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Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek #1338829 01/01/10 09:13 PM
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The FAQ entitled "Rules for Conduct on this Forum" includes the passage, "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

The moderators, in their independent judgment, might warn a member, delete offensive posts, give a member a "vacation" to think over their conduct, or ban someone outright. They might take other action, or none. They're particularly likely to take action (though not necessarily) if complaints are lodged.

It's within my personal observation that they particularly don't care for posters who are offensive, derogatory, sexually aggressive or creepy, or otherwise "on the edge" with the ladies.

Within the stated rules, there's a lot of freedom to express quite a range--- and it's fully used. It can happen that newer members may not be familiar with the "terms of use," or even know that they exist. They are posted on the main page of the site, and also on the main pages of the individual forums.


Clef

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Jeff Clef #1338855 01/01/10 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
The FAQ entitled "Rules for Conduct on this Forum" includes the passage, "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

The moderators, in their independent judgment, might warn a member, delete offensive posts, give a member a "vacation" to think over their conduct, or ban someone outright. They might take other action, or none. They're particularly likely to take action (though not necessarily) if complaints are lodged.

It's within my personal observation that they particularly don't care for posters who are offensive, derogatory, sexually aggressive or creepy, or otherwise "on the edge" with the ladies.

Within the stated rules, there's a lot of freedom to express quite a range--- and it's fully used. It can happen that newer members may not be familiar with the "terms of use," or even know that they exist. They are posted on the main page of the site, and also on the main pages of the individual forums.


And where may I ask have I slighted any of these rules? I have not provided false information, nor have I been defamatory or inaccurate. I've not been abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, or invasive of any person's privacy, nor have I violated any law. The ONLY thing I've done AT ALL is to point out a few details regarding some posts and apparently the "rule" is that anyone daring to "correct" or "add to" something any one of the so-called experts here have provided as fact is off limits. God forbid! If you disagree with any of my posts then fine...by all means say so. Now then, I could actually make a case for a few of you committing transgressions against said list of rules, since I've been told that I would be met with "formidable adversaries" (which could be taken as a threat). I've been called snide, patronizing and disrespectful while not resorting to name calling myself. In fact I've gone so far as to lay out the points I was trying to make in some of my posts, but, once again, God forbid, someone took it as an "underling" challenging their wisdom. I now see a few more posts I could term harassing with the "Troll Spray". I was going to simply ignore those little fluffs of immaturity, but it seems all of YOU would rather protract things and continue to air your dislike of me. That's fine...I'm not bothered. Please continue on with your fun.
By the way, Elene, Chopin, was quite an elegant man, but his temper was often one that reduced it's target to tears. You would, CERTAINLY, know if you'd been rebuked.
Horowitzian, you dishonor the name of arguably the greatest pianist this world has ever known with your trite name calling.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stores #1338895 01/01/10 11:17 PM
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It's not a matter of violation of rules, tosser, but rather a question of tone.

Knowledge is embraced here, but it's not mitigated by an attitude that's been confrontative from the start. This is a social setting, and you've done nothing to make yourself welcome or even provide background that would enable other participants here to know where you are coming from (literally): no introduction, an empty profile, and a rather imperious been-there-done-that-seen-it-all posture.

You could have stepped back, apologized for coming on so strong and made some earnest comments about your experience. Instead, you got defensive and even asserted, rather remarkably, that you were treated with condescension. I think an honest examination of what's transpired leads to a different conclusion. smile

The core of regular posters to this thread is a friendly group, but we haven't known each other forever. Each of us was new here once, and new voices are welcomed when they're reasonably genial. Storming in with antagonism and confrontation ... not so much.

None of us is omniscient or infallible, and we don't try to portray ourselves that way; I recommend you assume that we act in good faith here and try harder to demonstrate goodwill on your own part.

Steven

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sotto voce #1338898 01/01/10 11:22 PM
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This thread has certainly started off the new year in an interesting way. I think Steven offers excellent advice for all (new or old): "assume that we act in good faith and try hard to demonstrate goodwill"

Happy New Year everyone!


Greg
Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sotto voce #1338942 01/02/10 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sotto voce
It's not a matter of violation of rules, tosser, but rather a question of tone.

Knowledge is embraced here, but it's not mitigated by an attitude that's been confrontative from the start. This is a social setting, and you've done nothing to make yourself welcome or even provide background that would enable other participants here to know where you are coming from (literally): no introduction, an empty profile, and a rather imperious been-there-done-that-seen-it-all posture.

You could have stepped back, apologized for coming on so strong and made some earnest comments about your experience. Instead, you got defensive and even asserted, rather remarkably, that you were treated with condescension. I think an honest examination of what's transpired leads to a different conclusion. smile

The core of regular posters to this thread is a friendly group, but we haven't known each other forever. Each of us was new here once, and new voices are welcomed when they're reasonably genial. Storming in with antagonism and confrontation ... not so much.

None of us is omniscient or infallible, and we don't try to portray ourselves that way; I recommend you assume that we act in good faith here and try harder to demonstrate goodwill on your own part.

Steven


I'm really not sure what's been confrontational about my attitude from the start. I'm guessing the wording "I hate to break it to you" must have touched some already exposed nerves. If that's considered confrontational, then I'm not sure what to say. (I rather doubt I'll get a response to what's a legitimate question I posted in regard to an image earlier as no doubt the OP will feel I'm threatening his correctness yet again...insert rolled eyes here). As far as my background or who I am...who cares? For one, you're the first to pose any query as such and really, if a person wants to remain anonymous then he ought to be able to do so without others thinking him suspect. There is no reason for me to apologize for anything I originally stated in my posts. They were factual and concise. I might've been a bit aggresive in my retorts to those who replied with an air of "I'm the expert don't question me", but I'll not be berated or treated like some amateur simply because I'm new.
At any rate, thank you for your well written post. I think I'll return to the mindset I'd decided to employ earlier and just shut my mouth and watch from the sidelines so as not to step on any toes. Too many touchy souls here really.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stores #1338999 01/02/10 03:38 AM
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Er - happy new year, everyone.

Warm thanks to Jeff Kallberg for his invaluable contributions.

In answer to a couple of questions:
the oval daguerrotype, if of Chopin (and I have a strong 'feeling' it is of him, which of course means little) should show his hair parting to his left, as in all the other portraits.

I think the statement about Chopin's temper 'often reducing its target to tears' gives a wrong impression. One of his students does seem to have had a rather volatile dynamic with him, but that was the exception not the rule, as other eyewitness acounts reveal.

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose #1339077 01/02/10 09:14 AM
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WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING ON HERE!! WHATEVER IT IS, I WANT IT TO STOP!!

I may be naive or perhaps have lead a sheltered life, but I find nothing wrong with anything that tosser has posted. While it is true that he might have used different wording when opposing some of our opinions, that hardly qualifies all this fuss. For Pete's sake, LET'S GET OVER IT!!

I mentioned that we welcome all viewpoints, whether they agree with the majority or not. So please, let's let it go, whatever it is.

Tosser: I agree that you have done nothing wrong. That you are challenging some of our opinions is just fine!! You are an intelligent person, who obviously has a wonderful command of the English language. So, just as a suggestion , perhaps you might reconsider the wording of your opposing views. If that’s all it takes to keep our thread from becoming less than dignified, it is a request that shouldn’t be so difficult to honor. wink

That being said, you are right that Chopin did have a temper. We have never stated anything to the contrary. If I remember correctly from my reading, he didn’t have much patience with students who came to their lessons, unprepared. And he did reduce one of his students to tears because she had memorized her assignment when Chopin explicitly asked her not to. Yes, it is purported that he broke pencils in half and even threw them across the room. Being an retired teacher, I never threw pencils across the room, but I certainly felt like throwing a student out the window. Chopin was human and often in great pain and under considerable pressure for various reasons, so if he lost his temper now and then, who cares? I also recall reading (from primary sources) accounts from many of his students who praised his patience and his ability to inspire and encourage them even when he was bed-ridden and suffering. So let’s now throw the baby out with the bath water. grin

Marrissa: Thank you for your new year’s greeting. We are so happy you found us and please, please, keep posting. You are very special to us. heart

Kathleen



Chopin’s music is all I need to look into my soul.
Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch #1339084 01/02/10 09:32 AM
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Happy New Year, Everyone!
I basically agree with Kathleen; although the tone of tosser's posts also set me on edge, it seems that the 'back-reaction' caused the whole thing to escalate unnecessarily. I don't want what happens in other threads to start happening here!
My impression is that tosser is a relatively young person- I recognize this posture in some of my college students. Time and life experience have a way of softening rough edges, which I predict will happen eventually.

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch #1339087 01/02/10 09:45 AM
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Happy new years to everybody.

I will try to divert a bit from your interesting argument reporting my recent 10th wedding anniversary gift. We spent a couple of days in Venice on November to celebrate our anniversary and in that occasion my wife told me I'd have enjoyed my gift later.

So I was pretty surprised when on the 11 of December she led me to the train station taking a train again for Venice where we arrived at 8 PM. We took a vaporetto for San Marco where we reached our nice suite canal view. We spent the morning visiting the Scuola Grande of San Rocco with those massive paintings of Tintoretto and the beautiful upper room with wooden engravings and the painted ceiling.

So far pretty usual you'd say.

In the afternoon she asked me to dress properly and at 5 pm we took a gondola which brought us to make a 40 minutes tour through the Grand Canal light mist to La Fenice theatre.

Now comes the best part of her gift...Barenboim's Chopin recital to celebrate the award "a life for music" granted by Venice to some outstanding musical personalities. Two seats in the first row.

Barcarolle, the three op.34 waltzes (i'm studying the a minor one), nocturne op.27 were simply memorable. I think he were not so impressive in the first and second movements of the op.35, but the marcia funebre was so moving...

We ended up in Antico Giardinetto restaurant listed number one on tripadvisor with full reason after a lovely walk through Rialto bridge.

Gotta love her...gotta love Chopin!

Last edited by Chopinet; 01/02/10 09:52 AM.
Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chopinet #1339107 01/02/10 10:21 AM
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Wow Chopinet! Sounds like a wonderful anniversary surprise from your wife! My wife and I just celebrated our 36th but our celebration wasn't nearly so idyllic as yours. Happy anniversary and thanks for sharing.


Greg
Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
BB Player #1339158 01/02/10 11:36 AM
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Wow and double Wow, Chopinet! That whole night was like a dream. Happy Anniversary, and I hope your wife keeps with this amazing tradition.

And you are so right...gotta love her, gotta love Chopin!

A great new year to both of you,
Kathleen


Chopin’s music is all I need to look into my soul.
Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chopinet #1339184 01/02/10 12:39 PM
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Wow, even part of this suprise sounds pretty wonderful to me, but the concert must have been the 'icing on the cake'. You chose your wife well, Chopinet wink Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I heard Barenboim in London many years ago in the B minor Sonata and various other works that I can't really remember, but I did enjoy his Nocturnes in particular.

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose #1339189 01/02/10 12:52 PM
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Sounds like your wife not only has a feel for the perfect gift, but a wonderful sense of drama and timing. The build-up was truly impressive.

Could I ask what a vaporetto is?


Clef

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Jeff Clef #1339214 01/02/10 01:25 PM
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Happy New year, Chopinet, and Happy wedding anniversary! What a wonderful trip you had - hearing the most romantic composer in the most omantic city! Venice... I've read a lot about it, so all the names are familiar to me. May I explain to Jeff Clef what vaporetto is? So, vaporetto is a boat which is used to move along the chanels in Venice. Another kind of transport there is gondola. Am I right?
Barcarolle suites Venetian atmosphere perfectly, doesn't it?

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
ChopinAddict #1339222 01/02/10 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
Has this photo already been posted here? It has been discussed in another thread, but I cannot find it here... It is so beautiful...

Frycek and ChA, thank you for sharing this photo! It's a real discovery, congratulations to you for you research work! smile
BTW due to this dag I've found this forum- I've been googling Chopin's images and this one drew my attention. Like Elene, I think it ought to be Fryderyk. This image reminds me of the portrait by Maria Wodzinska. Chopin's is so attractive here 3hearts
It's a pity that the image is a bit distroyed, but on the other hand, great that it's survived till now!

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chopinet #1339228 01/02/10 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chopinet
Happy new years to everybody.

I will try to divert a bit from your interesting argument reporting my recent 10th wedding anniversary gift. We spent a couple of days in Venice on November to celebrate our anniversary and in that occasion my wife told me I'd have enjoyed my gift later.

So I was pretty surprised when on the 11 of December she led me to the train station taking a train again for Venice where we arrived at 8 PM. We took a vaporetto for San Marco where we reached our nice suite canal view. We spent the morning visiting the Scuola Grande of San Rocco with those massive paintings of Tintoretto and the beautiful upper room with wooden engravings and the painted ceiling.

So far pretty usual you'd say.

In the afternoon she asked me to dress properly and at 5 pm we took a gondola which brought us to make a 40 minutes tour through the Grand Canal light mist to La Fenice theatre.

Now comes the best part of her gift...Barenboim's Chopin recital to celebrate the award "a life for music" granted by Venice to some outstanding musical personalities. Two seats in the first row.

Barcarolle, the three op.34 waltzes (i'm studying the a minor one), nocturne op.27 were simply memorable. I think he were not so impressive in the first and second movements of the op.35, but the marcia funebre was so moving...

We ended up in Antico Giardinetto restaurant listed number one on tripadvisor with full reason after a lovely walk through Rialto bridge.

Gotta love her...gotta love Chopin!


Such a wonderful anniversary gift.

Vaporetto? I'm not sure what that is.

I'd love to hear Barenboim do a Chopin recital.

Some of his playing is great, but I've not heard him play Chopin.

Gondola ride is a great way to prepare for hearing Chopin's Barcarolle.

Opus 35 is one of my favorite pieces of his.

Nothing compares, IMO, to the Barcarolle, though.

Etudes, Nocturnes, Preludes, Sonatas - he was a genius.

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Phlebas #1339285 01/02/10 03:12 PM
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I might have looked it up in the first place (though thanks for your answer, Marrissa)--- I think I wanted to hear Chopinet tell more about the story. Vaporetta is a Venetian water bus; the photos look something like a small-sized ferry. They say it can be crowded in the daytime, but the one that runs down the Grand Canal is romantic at night, especially if you ride after dark, when the boat's lights are on.

San Francisco has bay ferries that look similar--- a great daytime ride, but one of the best trips is to go out on the bay when there are fireworks. You not only see San Francisco's (which are fired off over the bay), but also distant views of the shows of four or five other cities.


Clef

Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Jeff Clef #1339699 01/03/10 09:05 AM
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR MARYROSE: heart

Starting the new year off being a day older can have its advantages. All those new resolutions to make and all those resolutions to break. laugh

I hope you can spend your special day with family and friends. Have an extra big piece of birthday cake. I promise to absorb all of those calories. smile

Affectionally,
Kathleen



Chopin’s music is all I need to look into my soul.
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