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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
EssBrace #1338107 12/31/09 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
It has a different name. Isn't that different enough for you?





I'm not sure what you mean by this response.

Quote


Most of the manufacturers are the same...marginal (if any) change dressed up in marketing jargon like it's the re-invention of the wheel. Nauseating.


I can't agree when it comes to Roland. I've played PHA, PHA-II (with escapement) and PHA-III (with escapement). Is there a difference? You bet. Is it mere marketing hype? Nope.

Lawrence

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
snazzyplayer #1338113 12/31/09 08:13 PM
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Snazzy,

It is a credit to Yamaha that they can get close to the Avant Grand action (which more or less is a grand action) with the GH action in your CP-300. I agree with you, having just traded my Gran Touch for a GH3 equipped Clavinova...the GH3 is very nearly as good as the Gran Touch.

The GH3 is mechanically the same as the CP-300 with the addition of another sensor. The current Yamaha NW action is again mechanically the same as GH3 but with wooden white keys. Even if they make the black keys with wood, what does this achieve in reality?

Unless a manufacturer uses a grand action as per Avant Grand or Gran Touch or uses wood to make a very long, properly pivoted key as per Kawai, the use of wood is ridiculous because it achieves absolutely nothing.

Steve


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1338124 12/31/09 08:29 PM
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Lawrence

As you know I have a V-Piano with PHA-III. It is nice, very nice. Smooth, agile, percussive. It is noisier than my GH3-equipped Clavinova. I played RD-700 GX with PHA-II and this in my opinion was just as nice. My Roland guy tells me that preference among his customers is divided between PHA-II or III. They are both good. Anyone that thinks PHA-III is some sort of quantum leap is deluded...at best it is a marginal improvement.

My other comment was in response to your question about how NW stage will differ to previous NW action. Well, it has a new name. THAT is the difference. If you are hoping for a Kawai-like long wood key then dream on.

I think the PHA-II and III are the best actions currently fitted to DPs apart from the full grand actions in the Avant Grand. The Yamaha GH3 forms the basis of all other higher end Yamaha actions and it is quite good enough in my opinion...swapping odd bits of plastic for wood makes no difference at all.

Steve


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
EssBrace #1338130 12/31/09 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Kawai-like long wood

Oh my lord! Isn't this a family forum?

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1338138 12/31/09 08:38 PM
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forgive my inadvertent smut!


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
EssBrace #1338217 01/01/10 12:13 AM
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I'm more interested in the piano sound of the CP-1 (or 5)...if the action was made out of all plastic, it wouldn't matter, as long as it is as good as the CP-300 (better would be nice, but not necessary).

I was hoping they would be lighter in weight than the specs state, as it would be nice to have a piano around 30 lbs that I could take gigging...I'm not fond of lugging the CP-300. Thankfully, the P-85 through a decent stereo sound system sounds pretty darn good.

I get my acoustic fix daily on the Avant Grand...it would be nice to get almost the same piano sound quality in a more portable rig...the CP-300 is excellent...the on-board speakers are really good, and almost give the experience of sitting at a real piano, at least sound wise...still no tactile feedback, but I don't mind missing that with a stage piano.

They can make the action out of whatever they want, aluminum, titanium, cork...as long as it still has a good piano feel.

I'm not going to feel awful if the CP-1 doesn't quite do it for me...there'll be others, and perhaps we'll get a new P-85 replacement with the same light weight. One thing thing for sure is I'm in no hurry...I can stand pat if I have to.

Snazzy


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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
snazzyplayer #1338785 01/01/10 09:10 PM
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Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
sid4iwpa #1338791 01/01/10 09:17 PM
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I don't like the sound of the acoustic piano on the demo...I'm going to have to wait and try it in person through a decent sound system and headphones...that's the only way. Very hard and almost tubby in the low-mid range....eeeccchh!

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
sid4iwpa #1338806 01/01/10 09:43 PM
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Ugh, it's all some kind of strange Jazz or Pop noodling. Almost any piano sounds good that way. And the audio quality completely sucks. (Not recorded directly from line out!)

Hopefully Olaf Brauns will do another one of his glorious DP demo videos for Musik Schmidt with the CP-1. At least he's able and willing to throw in a few bars of classical music now and then...

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
M. Doege #1338853 01/01/10 11:22 PM
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According to this link http://music.yamaha.com/products/highlights/keyboardsAST/8.html the NW action is different to GH3, in that it reproduces the extra delay in the low notes. Can anyone confirm this, or does the GH3 also have this varying delay?

I'm not at all convinced that NW-Stage is the same as NW yet. In the literature, and also in the presentations, it is described as being "weighted", not "graded". For the CP-1, they say "graded".

Greg.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
sid4iwpa #1338873 01/01/10 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sid4iwpa
if you wish to hear the cp-1 piano patches, i found 6 videos on youtube where the pianist play the patches one by one.


Those demos have been on YouTube for awhile, and are useless in terms of demonstrating what the keyboard sounds like. (In fact, they do more harm than good, IMHO).

We need good demos, recorded directed with no room sound.

Lawrence

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1339519 01/02/10 10:34 PM
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Official CP-1 video by yamaha :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzL-e-0TR-4&feature=related

Xan playing the CP1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhgTY33Dxs&feature=related

more CP1 demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BD7uRa6F1Y&feature=related
(piano patch at 1:07 sounds warm and rich)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd38_jCTIFo
(it's in japanese, dun understand that the demonstrator is saying...)


Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
sid4iwpa #1339525 01/02/10 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sid4iwpa


I hadn't heard the Xan demo before. His demonstrating the smooth volume changes was very interesting. If we truly don't hear any velocity switching in a sample based instrument, that is a remarkable advancement.

As always, though, listening to audio via video does not provide the best demonstration.

Lawrence

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1339618 01/03/10 03:35 AM
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I play it Tuesday .... we shall see what the verdict is.

Last edited by Dr Popper; 01/03/10 03:36 AM.

"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1339693 01/03/10 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by sid4iwpa


I hadn't heard the Xan demo before. His demonstrating the smooth volume changes was very interesting. If we truly don't hear any velocity switching in a sample based instrument, that is a remarkable advancement.

As always, though, listening to audio via video does not provide the best demonstration.


Agreed. Though often I can't hear layers unless I'm using a MIDI sequencer, which gives me exact control over the velocity - then it jumps right out. Of course, some voices like electric piano where they use two layers for the distortion effect almost always have an annoyingly abrupt switch. At least in this keyboard they are doing the EP distortion effects the right way with effects.

The section of the video where Xan demos the acoustic piano was way too short, and was the usual "flurry of notes" thing that would make a cheap Casiotone sound like a Bösendorfer Imperial Grand. The universal shortness of this section in all the videos is helping to lower my expectations of this part of the DP.

And claiming he'd only played with it for a few minutes - yet inexplicably was somehow able to press a vaguely named button, turn a random knob until something cryptic came up on the tiny screen, and then play a key to move the split point - was hilarious. Looks like the generally terrible UI that Yamaha is (in)famous for.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1339717 01/03/10 10:53 AM
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Agreed. All the demos do a wee bit of piano and then move on. Personally, I'm only interested in the AP. And, yes, we need slow sustained playing, in all the ranges, especially the all important mid. And, DON'T TALK over the playing.

And, since I'm interested in the AP, why not showcase both pianos from the CP1, and even the various presets. That would be interesting.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Dr Popper's review, and hoping that it will be positive. (Hey, Dr Popper, some of us are REALLY interested in the AP sounds. Hint. Hint!)

Lawrence

Last edited by Melodialworks Music; 01/03/10 10:54 AM.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1339730 01/03/10 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
And, since I'm interested in the AP, why not showcase both pianos from the CP1, and even the various presets. That would be interesting.

I can't figure out why the marketing is coming across this way. Is it because the engineers and marketing guys are particularly excited about the EPs and they way they were implemented (even though it all seems very pedestrian and straightforward to me)? Or is it because they know exactly what went into the APs and they are really nothing to write home about (e.g. maybe a relatively small section of the sample memory is dedicated to the APs)? Or is it all just chance that they are heavily favoring the EPs over the APs? Yamaha is a huge tightly run ship, it's hard for me to believe something so basic to a new product line roll-out would be mismanaged.

Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Dr Popper's review, and hoping that it will be positive. (Hey, Dr Popper, some of us are REALLY interested in the AP sounds. Hint. Hint!)

I second that! I can stand a bit of stretching, and layering is generally rather inaudible if it is done even half-way right, but looping I just can't abide. Dr Popper, could you keep a particularly sharp ear out for looping? Any looping or otherwise lame decay and I'm marking this one off the list (which is a list of one, by the way).

[edit]Oh, and I forgot about sympathetic resonance (or whatever reasonable facsimile of that is implemented on this line). If it sounds fake when this effect is turned up then that's also a no-go for me. I demand realistic decay and resonance, or it's a continuation of my long, slow, dreary waiting game.

Last edited by dewster; 01/03/10 11:41 AM.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Melodialworks Music #1339741 01/03/10 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music


Anyway, I'm looking forward to Dr Popper's review, and hoping that it will be positive. (Hey, Dr Popper, some of us are REALLY interested in the AP sounds. Hint. Hint!)

Lawrence


I'll give it a go I'm not really a acoustic player in the classical/soloist style I tend to bash away like Eno on acid (did I mention I'm a keyboard player for a rock band ?).I'd better brush up so I can give it the full Zabraski Point treatment just for you ...Its interesting as I have a big 142mb S6 sample on my s90xs and that's (despite what I've heard people say) a really fantastic AP patch that plays warm and rich just like a real S6 that's done a few miles. I also have a real live C7 at my house which I fiddle around on (bash away really) when nobody's about to offend and I'd like to see the CP1 able to match it ( I don't think it will but if it gets close I'll be impressed) I've got a bit of a "in" with Yamaha at the moment and I'll be making the most of it don't you worry and I will certainly post my impressions (and samples if I can) here for you to check out.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
Dr Popper #1339746 01/03/10 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I'll give it a go I'm not really a acoustic player in the classical/soloist style I tend to bash away like Eno on acid (did I mention I'm a keyboard player for a rock band ?).I'd better brush up so I can give it the full Zabraski Point treatment just for you

Thanks much but that's not really necessary. Just play some notes by themselves and listen for lameness. Press the damper and repeat.

Originally Posted by Dr Popper
...Its interesting as I have a big 142mb S6 sample on my s90xs

Not trying to harsh on your s90sx, but I find "big" followed by "142mb" a rather depressing accurate description of the size of DP sample sets these days. Yamaha themselves claim it to be "huge". What passed for an average sized AP sample on the PC years ago was 20x this, and Yamaha will have to invent entirely new descriptive words for over-the-top massive hyper hugeness when they put a sample anywhere near that size in one of their DPs (circa 2020). Those guys are wearing out the English language.

Re: New stage pianos from Yamaha!
dewster #1339857 01/03/10 02:17 PM
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If you truly believe that DPs are so far behind in technology and you think that "huge" sample based PC software pianos are so advanced, then why are you bothering to look for a DP to fit your needs?? I have found it best to find out which gear works best for my wants/needs and to then purchase it. You cannot force manufacturers to make something to exactly your specifications, you look at what is offered, if it works for you then purchase it and use it.
Clyde


DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, etc.
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