Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano

Alrite i will go down and take a look at the brodmann , i read reviews that it had certain sustaining chracteristics of high end piano, will go down and verify that, as well as to compare the price.

The Brodmann grands are fine. The problem is that the Pianoman showroom is really a horrid environment in which to audition pianos, so you'll have use your imagination a bit.

Indeed, and check out the logo!!

http://www.inewidea.com/db/79056831.html

I wonder what kind of market research led to calling them Kayserburg in Asia and Ritmüller in the West. Do all you guys in Singapore aspire to living in a castle?

Anyway, in the branding here in the US, it seems that Guangzhou has abandoned the Pearl River fallboard name. The new pianos that have gotten favorable reviews (and do seem nice to me) are the new series Ritmüllers designated as UH for both grands and uprights. The older Pearls and Rits are designated GP and UP with an R suffix after the number if it's branded Ritmüller. I have no idea how you would recognize the new series under the Kayserburg name, but I think it's worth it to try the newer series.

I have a couple of questions for you guys discussing the Chinese brands here and for others (snoopycar, Wzkit, etc.) if they're still active.

How are the earlier Chinese brands like those from DongBei and Guangzhou holding up in Singapore.....any horror stories about structural deformation, unstable tuning, action problems etc.?

How is the pricing of the newer Chinese brands? Hailun is still cheap here, but Brodmann has pushed up prices quite a bit. W&L has a very small presence here but their prices (on paper) are much higher than regular Hailun.

@Turandot:

The branding of pianos with German-sounding names most likely has something to do with the perception that German pianos are best. So a German-sounding brand name on the fallboard attempts to suggest that the piano is in someway superior to those with Asian brand names.

And it works, not just in Singapore but pretty much throughout all of Asia. Many piano buyers (particularly the first-timers) have no idea what a half-decent piano should sound or feel like because they have no frame of reference.

The lack of a pool of quality piano techs in Singapore doesn't help either.

Digitus, I know that. It still works here too, but I think it's becoming less important as consumers become more educated. My question (half serious/half joking) was not about why Germanic names are used. It was why we get Ritmüller and you guys get Kayserburg with a castle included?

My serious questions were about earlier Chinese pianos holding up in your relentless climate and about pricing of the newer Chinese brands. Any ideas?

@Turandot:

I guess the notional castle that comes with the Kayserburg is about as close as we can get to a fancy property?

No idea about how Chinese pianos are holding up here. If I have the time I'll drop in on the leading used-piano dealership/restorer here in Singapore and see what his take is on this.

If you ask any of the mass-market dealers here about keeping a upright piano in good shape in the tropics the usual answer is all that is needed is an always-on heater bar in the case. Some piano owners are then surprised when the keys on their instruments start to seize up. (I say 'upright piano' because the vast majority of pianos sold in Singapore are uprights. About 80+% of the population live in high-rise housing so uprights are the most practical in terms of space utilisation and just getting the darned things up into the flats.)

Thanks, Digitus. That would be interesting to read about.

On the castle question, here is the info from the website I linked to earlier. I think that the last sentence is the most meaningful.

Description of Mark Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of the wording "KAYSERBURG" in stylized font above a design featuring a stylized castle in clouds above a shield displaying musical instrument keys with ornamental framework extending up from the right and left side of the shield.

Translations The term "KAYSERBURG" has no meaning in a foreign language.

Kayserburg is an actual place (ironically not in Germany!), whereas Ritmuller would be a family name?

The amateur psychologist/sociologist in me is hypothesizing that in the US, perhaps the consumer cares more about 'tradition','family', and possibly a tradition of 'craftsmanship', whereas here, it is the idea of 'where it is made' that is salient.

Obviously the above analysis has no basis in any fact whatsoever.

I understand that the both the hailun/wendl and lung are considered better Chinese made grands.

In your personal opinion, which one would you prefer if both of them had the same price range? Hailun or Brodmann?

Comparing touch , tone , action and bass response.

Thanks

Would like to check on which piano is better as well -my budget is not more than $6K. Between Hailun and Yamaha M112 - which is better?

xguy - it's a matter of taste really. However, the Hailun I tried was definitely better prepped. Unfortunately the Brodmann I tried in the past was not exactly the best specimen.

jnchoy - again, it's a matter of taste. Both are great pianos. For the same price though, you would be getting a larger piano with nicer finishes for the Hailun. (I liked the ebony sharps and the fuller tone). On the other hand, Yamaha really stands by their product.

Haha I have heard about bad reviews in pianoworld about pianoman , looks like they did not reli prep the piano a customer bought. Will this happen to a new piano as well, i wonder.

Hi all

Wow! I spent days reading from page 1 2006, to the end here! But hope not the end la. But like so many days no new post le. Hope you people are still around.

Anyway, I find this thread really interesting. And can learn a lot.

I don't know much about pianos, so doing some research to buy a piano for my 4-yr old, who just started group piano lessons a few months ago. I've learned to play before too, but that was super super long time ago, and gave up when I failed grade 3 or 4. Sigh. Hope I can learn with my son now, and hope he can sustain the interest, and hope his younger brother can also start learning next time too. (Wa, so many hopes!)

Anyway, I started with a budget of $2k because my friend who bought an old Yamaha for her young daugher, got hers for $1.5k. Then as I go to a couple of 2nd hand dealers' warehouse, I realise $2k can only buy shorter models, and apparently these need to be upgraded if they do go to higher grades. The popular and better sounding Yamahas or Kawais are like more than $4k, way above my budget (my husband will scream!) But I think I can convince him to buy one like around $3.5k?

But still with this budget, I don't seem to find a 2nd hand Yamaha or Kawai that I like the sound le, though I'm not really very sensitive to sound la. The Yamaha's like to me sharp, but the dealer say it is "bright". So I don't know what's sharp and what's bright. Kawai like not so sharp, but I don't know. Another friend tell me look for "clear" sound. I lagi more confused.

Then I also happen to visit another shop with Hailun brand. They also have an old Yamaha U1 or is it U3, plus a Kawaii, don't know what model. She played on the various pianos, and strongly recommended Hailun HL125. I also think Hailun sounded really good for that price, compared to the old Yamaha or Kawai's there. But I don't know is it some marketing strategy?

Also in the more recent postings in this thread, there were talk about digital pianos, Clavorina and Rolands. Wa, like so versatile, can choose between different weighted keys, can have 2 middle Cs for teacher/mother to play together with child, can change sound to other musical instuments. Not sure if this will help to sustain my child's interest. Also not sure how long such electronic devices can last. Would any of you know if these can last like 10-20 years? New ones also not cheap le.

So I really appreciate any comments/advice. What should I buy with my budget?

By the way, I think you all can see, I'm a newbie. That was my 1st post!

Hi everyone,

I would like to learn about Atlas pianos...anyone who owns one or has experience playing it before, can you share how you find it?

Hello,

bet - $2k may be a little low to get a decent acoustic piano. You are likely to get a lower quality Chinese upright, a relatively new, used Chinese or a very old used Japanese upright, neither of which would be ideal in terms of touch and tone.

Hailun in general is well regarded for its value for money on these boards. It does have a nice touch and tone for its price, but it may also be difficult to get one of the better models for $2k. In a similar range is Kayserberg (more mellow) and Wilhelm Tell (lighter touch), all of which are Chinese made, but in the better range.

You may want to consider a digital piano too, particularly if your child is starting out. There are some advantages, mainly in terms of maintenance, and your child may find it more fun to play with the various sounds, particularly if your children are very young. The P-155 is within your budget, as are Roland when they are on sale.

ycats - Atlas is a very old Japanese brand that has gone out of business. All the ones I have tried are very old and probably not representative of their heyday.

Hi Bet Bet,

which warehouse you go already? Also searching for one for my 5yr old daughter. Maybe we can buy together see got better discount anot. =D

Left you an email, keep in touch.

Happy New Year everyone...

Hi people, Happy New Year !

I yesterday just purchased a Hailun HG178 Mahagony grand from Piano master. Coming from the point of view of a person who has played piano for 6 years , and going to take diploma exams this year , i can tell you be reassured. I am not a promoter for hailun piano, nor do i stand anything to gain from it ( i am just a customer) , my advice is trust your ears, and because its so hard to spend hours looking at the computer staring at forums ( which i did of course ), look listen and feel for the piano which appeals to you.

However if you are looking for the best value (performance/ratio) , and as a form of investment ( because hailun prices are going to rise) , i suggest you seriously consider hl.

ALSO, looking for 2nd hand kawai? Try piano galleria, they have a whole warehouse of used kawai, good and high quality. I am surprised how much research i did to buy 1 piano, oh great.

Hi Xguy

Congratulations! Yes, the HG178 is a very nice piano, and excellent value for money. I would have bought it myself if I had enough space. It's actually good value - about the price of a used GC1, and sounds a lot better!

Pics are almost mandatory.