2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
50 members (chopinetto, Carey, anotherscott, Charles Cohen, cozmopak, AWilley, Bruce In Philly, Cushite, 14 invisible), 437 guests, and 492 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
Mark_C #1337605 12/31/09 01:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 982
Teodor Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 982
I know they are not but by setting your mind to think something is easy, you might actually find it easier in the long run. I never approach anything saying "ОMG this will be so hard... ok here goes nothing" smile

Plus, I'm still very green inside. I need to learn patience if I ever want to get somewhere.

Last edited by Teodor; 12/31/09 01:54 AM.

[Linked Image]
Recitals:[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
Teodor #1337665 12/31/09 06:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
Originally Posted by Teodor

Plus, I'm still very green inside. I need to learn patience if I ever want to get somewhere.


Yes - it's very good that you realize this - now remember it always and pace yourself accordingly - this is one of the key answers to your original question.

JF


Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
Mark_C #1337666 12/31/09 06:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
And here we arrive at another occasion on Piano forums where the "adults" pat the "toddlers" on the head, shake their ever so superior heads knowingly and say...someday, you too MAY understand, what I have come to know.



[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337688 12/31/09 08:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 873
W
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 873
Hey don't bother with Gyro's advice. I don't think he can even play Fur Elise half decently.

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337689 12/31/09 08:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
And here we arrive at another occasion on Piano forums where the "adults" pat the "toddlers" on the head, shake their ever so superior heads knowingly and say...someday, you too MAY understand, what I have come to know.



smile

Well, in spite of your weak, flimsy attempt at sarcasm - a very typical "toddler" reaction to words of wisdom imparted by "adults" - you're absolutely correct. That's exactly what is being communicated here and the approach with which it is being so communicated - and you should remember this always and pace yourself accordingly laugh

Actually, I was just happy to see that he realized that patience was just as important as the consistency of hard work, and was trying to congratulate him for his "smarts" and to encourage his efforts.

What have you offered in this regard?

JF


Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
TrapperJohn #1337750 12/31/09 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
And here we arrive at another occasion on Piano forums where the "adults" pat the "toddlers" on the head, shake their ever so superior heads knowingly and say...someday, you too MAY understand, what I have come to know.



smile

Well, in spite of your weak, flimsy attempt at sarcasm - a very typical "toddler" reaction to words of wisdom imparted by "adults" - you're absolutely correct. That's exactly what is being communicated here and the approach with which it is being so communicated - and you should remember this always and pace yourself accordingly laugh

Actually, I was just happy to see that he realized that patience was just as important as the consistency of hard work, and was trying to congratulate him for his "smarts" and to encourage his efforts.

What have you offered in this regard?

JF



Telling someone over the internet that someday they may have the introspective abilities to see the nuances of a particular piece that makes it difficult (reserved only for those with specific ability, who have sweated the blood from thier forehead in order to see all of the infinitessimal idiosyncracies of every strike (and absence of strike) of the piano keys (because isn't silence its own solemnity in a piece?)can come off sounding more than a bit conceited.

This place is can be awfully full of itself. That is what I have offered to this thread...a little sense of perspective to a thread that was just really willing to pat itself on the back for all of the worldly knowledge it could impart anonymously over the internets tubes to the "toddlers" who shouldn't be expected to "get it"...yet. After all they can barely walk...how could they possibly see what "I" high up on the mountain can see so clearly.




Last edited by I'll be Bach; 12/31/09 10:27 AM.

[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
Teodor #1337796 12/31/09 11:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,235
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,235
Originally Posted by Teodor
Should I start dreaming about ending being able to play The Entertainer as the hardest thing I can play? That's a too low goal and I wouldn't set it as something I aspire to.



LOL, within this thread, I've heard 2 of my 1st year adult beginner pieces, "The Entertainer" and "Fur Elise" used as examples.

Teodor, try playing the full 1902 version of Entertainer in less than a year. I did. smile

Anywho, your goals are fine. You are young and have 2 full decades head-start to aspire to those goals. I waited to take piano up after I had to work 50 hours a week, pay a mortgage and support 2 kids. My practice time is extremely limited (1/2 hour per day if I'm lucky)... Use your time wisely!


YouTube Channel
Scott Joplin Repertoire


Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach


[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337824 12/31/09 12:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
Telling someone over the internet that someday they may have the introspective abilities to see the nuances of a particular piece that makes it difficult (reserved only for those with specific ability, who have sweated the blood from thier forehead in order to see all of the infinitessimal idiosyncracies of every strike (and absence of strike) of the piano keys (because isn't silence its own solemnity in a piece?)can come off sounding more than a bit conceited.

This place is can be awfully full of itself. That is what I have offered to this thread...a little sense of perspective to a thread that was just really willing to pat itself on the back for all of the worldly knowledge it could impart anonymously over the internets tubes to the "toddlers" who shouldn't be expected to "get it"...yet. After all they can barely walk...how could they possibly see what "I" high up on the mountain can see so clearly.

Well, dang. I'm an adult returnee, but this reaction crystallizes why I've always felt so much more at ease in the Pianist Corner than in ABF: playing advanced repertoire and discussion of advanced technique here can be found to intimidate rather than inspire.

People who know a lot can be perceived as conceited know-it-alls whether their behavior is outright obnoxious or thoroughly understated or anywhere in between. I don't know why the knowledge and wisdom of high achievers is so often found to be smug or threatening, but there you have it.

I don't mean to depict this as a case of noblesse oblige, but it is kind of surprising that so many smart and experienced folks continue to be so willing to share their knowledge freely. Sometimes it seems like such a thankless task, and accusations of conceit, arrogance and that perennial favorite—elitism—taint the majority of novices who earnestly want to learn and are grateful for the help they receive.

Steven

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337833 12/31/09 12:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
"They're not that simple, unless you're looking at it more simply than you may someday."

Oh the nobility of just you know...knowing.

Much obliged.


And the belief that this forum doesn't have an air of superiority from some posters is really a bit funny. Having been involved in a thread recently where the worst thing in the world one poster could concieve of...was (gasp) play on an upright!

Time and again people with thousands to spend are told that they will have to suffer the consequences of their paltry sum by getting something with "muddled bass."

I think there are very strong reasons to participate in this forum and think it has great value...but there are many ways to make a point and on occasion I see the ...you just don't know any better side of it come out, and I find it unattractive.

If your experience differs, that is fine with me.






Last edited by I'll be Bach; 12/31/09 12:37 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337847 12/31/09 12:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
"They're not that simple, unless you're looking at it more simply than you may someday."

Oh the nobility of just you know...knowing.

Much obliged.

The quotation you offer looks like a prosaic statement of fact to me. If you take offense at it, I think it's because you already decided that that people who know more than you are offensive.

Steven

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337855 12/31/09 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
"They're not that simple, unless you're looking at it more simply than you may someday."

Oh the nobility of just you know...knowing.

Much obliged.

The quotation you offer looks like a prosaic statement of fact to me. If you take offense at it, I think it's because you already decided that that people who know more than you are offensive.

Steven


Or it may simply be someone saying...once you smarten up you will know just how difficult it is to do what I do.

//we are not curing cancer here...we are playing piano.
///your experience may differ...I just calls'em as I sees them.



[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337863 12/31/09 12:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
Or it may simply be someone saying...once you smarten up you will know just how difficult it is to do what I do.

It seems to me that that, too, is a simple statement of fact.

Originally Posted by I'll be Bachj
//we are not curing cancer here...we are playing piano.
///your experience may differ...I just calls'em as I sees them.

And yet there are some fundamental truths applicable to all who take their craft seriously:
  1. Musicality and musicianship take time to develop; and
  2. "Smartening up" is an on-going process for everyone, because experience and expertise are relative.
Of course it's not curing cancer, but that's not what we do. We play piano. To those who are about doing that skillfully, musical artistry is as real and important a part of our lives as curing cancer is to the scientists who answer that call.

Steven

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337869 12/31/09 01:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
Or it may simply be someone saying...once you smarten up you will know just how difficult it is to do what I do.

It seems to me that that, too, is a simple statement of fact.

Originally Posted by I'll be Bachj
//we are not curing cancer here...we are playing piano.
///your experience may differ...I just calls'em as I sees them.

And yet there are some fundamental truths applicable to all who take their craft seriously:
  1. Musicality and musicianship take time to develop; and
  2. "Smartening up" is an on-going process for everyone, because experience and expertise are relative.
Of course it's not curing cancer, but that's not what we do. We play piano. To those who are about doing that skillfully, musical artistry is as real and important a part of our lives as curing cancer is to the scientists who answer that call.

Steven


We will simply agree to disagree.

Where I am from...intimating that someone will eventually be as smart as you, isn't
a) flattering to the person you are saying it too.
b) speaks volume of the person who said the words.

There are ways to guide and teach without putting someone else down.


There is no crime in taking musical artistry seriously...I certainly do, having played instruments from when I could barely hold my head up. But I don't agree that telling a person that eventually they too might summit your mountain as if their experience should be the same as yours or lead to the same likely conclusions is anything less than putting on airs.

Have a great new year!





Last edited by I'll be Bach; 12/31/09 01:09 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337882 12/31/09 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
I think it's fine to say to someone, "the more you learn, the more you realize how difficult ____ is."

There's no point in always agreeing, and saying, "you're right. the dynamics in the Pathetique second movement aren't hard at all. You just follow the markings."

It's ok to point out that with practice, time, etc., it's possible to get to the level of playing - say - the Pathetique, but during that journey you'll a lot more than how to move your fingers, and what P and F mean.

It's not necessarily stifling or discouraging to say "work on, and play stuff that's at your level. The Pathetique is going to still be there when you're able to play it." That's what my first teacher said to me, and it was a great motivation.


Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337895 12/31/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
.....Telling someone over the internet that someday they may have the introspective abilities to see the nuances of a particular piece that makes it difficult (reserved only for those with specific ability, who have sweated the blood from thier forehead in order to see all of the infinitessimal idiosyncracies of every strike (and absence of strike) of the piano keys (because isn't silence its own solemnity in a piece?)can come off sounding more than a bit conceited....

Yes, it can. And if you think it did, fine.

He was asserting pretty strongly that certain things aren't hard. If your preference would have been to just let that stand, I don't agree with it.

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337897 12/31/09 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Originally Posted by sotto voce
.....I don't mean to depict this as a case of noblesse oblige, but it is kind of surprising that so many smart and experienced folks continue to be so willing to share their knowledge freely. Sometimes it seems like such a thankless task, and accusations of conceit, arrogance and that perennial favorite—elitism—taint the majority of novices who earnestly want to learn and are grateful for the help they receive.

Yes.
We want to be nice about it too, and I think most of us try our best.

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337899 12/31/09 01:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,001
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
"They're not that simple, unless you're looking at it more simply than you may someday."

Oh the nobility of just you know...knowing.

Much obliged.


And the belief that this forum doesn't have an air of superiority from some posters.....

Dear I'll Be:

That was a restrained way of replying to him, given what he was asserting.

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
I'll be Bach #1337902 12/31/09 01:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
We will simply agree to disagree.

Where I am from...intimating that someone will eventually be as smart as you, isn't
a) flattering to the person you are saying it too.
b) speaks volume of the person who said the words.

There are ways to guide and teach without putting someone else down.


There is no crime in taking musical artistry seriously...I certainly do, having played instruments from when I could barely hold my head up. But I don't agree that telling a person that eventually they too might summit your mountain as if their experience should be the same as yours or lead to the same likely conclusions is anything less than putting on airs.

Have a great new year!

You've been putting words in people's mouths by paraphrasing and spinning what's been said simply and matter-of-factly in order to validate your premise. You've trivialized people's concerns with technique and their instruments. In your indignation over being allegedly insulted by those who know more and care more than you apparently do, you don't seem to care whom you insult.

Steven

Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
Mark_C #1337903 12/31/09 01:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 430
Isn't "honesty is the best policy"?


Nguyen - Student Pianist
Re: Will I be good if I work hard?
sotto voce #1337911 12/31/09 02:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
We will simply agree to disagree.

Where I am from...intimating that someone will eventually be as smart as you, isn't
a) flattering to the person you are saying it too.
b) speaks volume of the person who said the words.

There are ways to guide and teach without putting someone else down.


There is no crime in taking musical artistry seriously...I certainly do, having played instruments from when I could barely hold my head up. But I don't agree that telling a person that eventually they too might summit your mountain as if their experience should be the same as yours or lead to the same likely conclusions is anything less than putting on airs.

Have a great new year!

You've been putting words in people's mouths by paraphrasing and spinning what's been said simply and matter-of-factly in order to validate your premise. You've trivialized people's concerns with technique and their instruments. In your indignation over being allegedly insulted by those who know more and care more than you apparently do, you don't seem to care whom you insult.

Steven


I see them as simply stated facts.

Again...I am not asking you to agree. Just as you should not expect me to suddenly see things your way.



Last edited by I'll be Bach; 12/31/09 02:03 PM.

[Linked Image]
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP under 3000 euros
by Pullman12 - 11/24/20 03:21 PM
Recording device - Recommendations
by Kinimod - 11/24/20 02:52 PM
Your opinions on my digital mixer setup
by Abdol - 11/24/20 02:37 PM
Thumb under for bluesy tunes
by AntonAnton - 11/24/20 12:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,023
Posts3,026,772
Members99,361
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4