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Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
#1330037 12/20/09 06:16 PM
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I received my HP-207 today and I started playing the moment the delivery guy left the apartment.

The sound is quite good, the touch is very good and I want to learn more about it.

One thing, though, has been bothering me. There is always thump sound when you press the keys, any keys. It is the sound of the key hitting the bottom of the keyboard. You can hear it very easily when the DP is turned off.

On loud pieces with the volume high, you can live with it. On softer music, it is almost like you had a drum being played along.

Is this something common to all DPs? Is there a way to fix this? I mean, can the service personnel do something about it?

I should have noticed this when I was trying the instrument but I'm new to the piano and also with the surrounding noise it is difficult to notice. It took me 5 weeks to get this instrument and I would hate to return it...

Last edited by TheCriticFromSouth; 12/20/09 06:20 PM.

Roland HP-207
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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
TheCriticFromSouth #1330048 12/20/09 06:35 PM
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Some brands/models make a more noticeable sound than others when they hit the bottom, but they all make some noise. You're in a big city, I would imagine there's places you could go to try one and compare. I'm guessing you psyched yourself out when you heard the noise the first time and now it's in your head so you're focusing on it. My DP makes a fair bit of key noise, but I'm used to it so it's become invisible.


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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
MarkL #1330054 12/20/09 06:45 PM
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Yes, all DP keyboard actions produce noise, although perhaps not the Yamaha AG. The problem is often that when you try the DP's / keyboard(s) out in the store, there is ambient (background) noise, and you perhaps notice the "thumping" less. In your quiet home environment, it seems louder.

I think you will get used to it.

I regularly play a HP-207 and a V-Piano, and I have to say this doesn't bother me. (The sound is less noticeable with the V-Piano, though).

Lawrence

PS - another factor is perhaps your style of playing. If you play with a heavy touch, then the thumping factor will be more noticeable, I suspect.

Last edited by Melodialworks Music; 12/20/09 06:46 PM.
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
TheCriticFromSouth #1330094 12/20/09 07:46 PM
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Good advice above.

Critic,

You don't have to go back to New Hampshire to check whether your key noise is normal or excessive. Just go to any local bigbox that has a bunch of DPs. Play the keys on all of them with the power off or the volume at zero. You'll find that some have a different sound than others, but that all go thumpety-thump within a volume range.

I wouldn't think of bringing your Roland back unless what you hear seems excessive compared to others. The HP207 is a really fine instrument.

The volume level that you set has an effect here as well. Playing at a slightly higher volume setting will you subconsciously cause you to lighten your touch. Conversely, playing at a low volume will cause you to have a heavier key attack. Check it out.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
TheCriticFromSouth #1330101 12/20/09 07:52 PM
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Acoustic pianos make key noise too. But on those you can't turn the volume down so you don't notice. I think the Roland is one of the DPs with the hardest pad on the bottom of the keys

Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
ChrisA #1330117 12/20/09 08:22 PM
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Yeah, some of the Rolands have fairly loud sounding keybeds but I've learned to ignore it over time. It was pretty loud when I first switched over from an unweighted keyboard (and the keys were heavy at first!) but I hardly even notice the noise when I play now. Also, if you play with headphones you can cut out some of that noise as well. Maybe not so much if you have open headphones like I do though.


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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
turandot #1330126 12/20/09 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by turandot

The volume level that you set has an effect here as well. Playing at a slightly higher volume setting will you subconsciously cause you to lighten your touch. Conversely, playing at a low volume will cause you to have a heavier key attack.


Very good point.

Lawrence

Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
Melodialworks Music #1330472 12/21/09 08:21 AM
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These thumps (or clunkyness) is something I looked into in a fair amount of detail when I was looking at dps.

Some people don't notice/don't care about it. It really annoys me though.

When I was trying dps, I found that Roland keyboards had the highest clunkyness. It annoyed me that the sound of the thump reached my ears before the sound of the music. I found that it was also present on Yamaha Clavinovas, but less loud. It was more obvious on the wooden key (370+) Clavinovas. I also found the clunky ness was present on Kawais (CA models), but that the sound was together: the music and the clunk reached my ears at the same time, and thus the clunkyness was not noticeable.

Last edited by AndyT; 12/21/09 08:25 AM.
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
AndyT #1330511 12/21/09 10:05 AM
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My FP-7 is clunky, and I've owned other Rolands in the past. You do get accustomed to it, but I agree at lower volume levels it's more prevalent. I generally play with the volume quite loud, and that usually takes care of it.


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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
TheCriticFromSouth #1330526 12/21/09 10:45 AM
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Closed head phones should eliminate hearing the clicking sound. When I got my DP, it bothered me enough that I didn't use my piano's speakers at all the first year.

Eventually, I had to play a lot of Christmas songs for everyone, and I just don't hear it anymore.

Last edited by appleman; 12/21/09 10:46 AM.

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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
appleman #1330545 12/21/09 11:17 AM
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The Roland V-Piano thump sound is less than the HP-207, FP-7 etc. I wonder if this is an added benefit of the PHA-III action?

Lawrence

Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
Melodialworks Music #1330622 12/21/09 12:45 PM
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At this point, mention has been made of thumping, clicking, and clunkyness.

On the thumping, there's no doubt it's there. One factor in the extent to which it's heard is where the speakers are positioned relative to the player's ears. There's not much you can do about that. The other thing is that on a 'better' Roland instrument how well it can be heard depends on the key attack. Critic indicates that he a beginner to piano. I'm guessing that as he develops his touch, he will be able to find the correct balance between volume setting and his attack velocity.

On the clicking, in my experience, if I hear clicking, it's time to trim the fingernails. Mine grow pretty fast. My dp's let me know when it's time. Any keyboard instrument with plasticky keys will send you the same message. How long you can let them grow will depend also on how much finger curl you have in your attack. If you're more of a flat-finger player, you can have them longer.

On the 'clunkyness' grin, I think clarification is needed. That sounds like a total response to the action feel. It would be good to have more detail.

Roland actions in its higher lines have been held to the fire many times here for hard bottoming, loud thumping, and in some cases, shallow key dip. One has to assume that these actions are less than ideal for complaining players although personally I have no quibble. IMO these comments come mainly from players who are used to one and only one action feel. In some cases that's the acoustic they are replacing or supplementing. In other cases it's the digital they are upgrading from. Players who regularly play a variety of keyboard instruments do not usually notice these things, or if they do, do not react to them as impediments to play. It's a question of player adaptation to the instrument.

One good point about the better Roland actions is key resistance. They don't offer resistance at the top and then travel down to bottom with unconditional surrender. I've done the coin test on many digitals using nickels. In some keyboards one nickel added to the stack will send the key from top to bottom. In these better Roland actions that doesn't happen. An additional nickel will send the key partly down, but it takes more than one to get to the bottom. That even resistance helps the player to avoid hard bottoming and any noises that might result from it. It also makes it easier to access and manipulate the available levels of dynamic touch response. That to me is a big deal.



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
turandot #1330656 12/21/09 01:43 PM
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The SK-6 action (rotary oil-damped) in my 20 year old Roland HP-1700 is free of thumping, clickiness and clunkiness.

Every Roland I've tried with the newer hammer action was noisy.

The worst was the FP-8 I had way back in the mid-nineties which quickly started to sound like an old Underwood typewriter. I ended up getting rid of it, as no amount of work by their technicians cured the problem for long.

It's still there, in the newer stuff, but not quite as bad.

Snazzy


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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
snazzyplayer #1330675 12/21/09 02:03 PM
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Snazzy,

I don't know what thread, but somehow I remember a post where you mentioned selling a ton of pianos. Do you or did you sell Yamaha dp's?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
turandot #1330676 12/21/09 02:08 PM
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re: Clunkyness - I guess it could be slightly connected to the heavier action (I've never thought about it like that before though) :o). I guess it is the feel + the thumping..

Edit: To me it just feels clunky rather than thumpy. (and thats not clunky in the way of something being ponderous, rather the clunk sound)

Last edited by AndyT; 12/21/09 02:45 PM.
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
turandot #1330689 12/21/09 02:25 PM
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My buddy Zeke sells pianos/keyboards...he is far more technically smart than I, but I have more street smarts, and I play better keys than him...he plays mostly guitar.

I never reveal how many keyboards I went through...if anyone suspects I’m crazy, I don’t want to confirm it.

I sort of collect instruments, although all are being used, and none are just for the sake of rarity. If I don't play something for a few months, it ends up getting sold.

I have some arranger keyboards; a newly acquired PSR-S910. a Korg PA2xPro (which is being sold), a Tyros3 (ditto) and I just sold a Roland E-80 a few weeks ago.

I also have several synthesizers...a very rare Yamaha GS-1, an even more rare Korg PS-3200, a Roland JX-10, a PPG Wave 2.3, and several rack-mount units...a Kawai K3M, Korg Poly-61M, and a Yamaha TX-802.

The Korg PS-3200 was my most recent...it had been stored almost from new and was mint...bought it from a guy in Canada, who also sold me the Yamaha GS-1 and the Roland JX-10.

And, there's the '57 Hammond B-3, and Leslie 147RV, and a Fender Rhodes 73 that's presently being overhauled/restored...it was in rough shape, but has a valuable history and serial number.

It's a passion of mine, both professionally, and for fun.

One of my homes is mostly taken up with my studio and instruments (my play-room).

I'm basically retired from the music business, and am now living an "under the radar" lifestyle.

The Yamaha Avant Grand and PSR-S910 are my most recent acquisitions.

I'm at the age where I realize you can't take it with you, so when I die, I plan on owing a lot of money. wink

Snazzy




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Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
snazzyplayer #1330800 12/21/09 05:23 PM
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Sometimes the clunk originates not in the keybed itself, but the surface the hammer strikes. My kurzweil makes 2 clunks - one quieter clunk when you hit the key and another louder clunk when the key returns to its home position. Doesn't bother me though - I play loud!


Les C Deal




Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
snazzyplayer #1330826 12/21/09 06:01 PM
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Quote
Do you or did you sell Yamaha DP's?


Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
My buddy Zeke sells pianos/keyboards...he is far more technically smart than I, but I have more street smarts, and I play better keys than him...he plays mostly guitar.

I never reveal how many keyboards I went through...if anyone suspects I’m crazy, I don’t want to confirm it.

I sort of collect instruments, although all are being used, and none are just for the sake of rarity. If I don't play something for a few months, it ends up getting sold.

I have some arranger keyboards; a newly acquired PSR-S910. a Korg PA2xPro (which is being sold), a Tyros3 (ditto) and I just sold a Roland E-80 a few weeks ago.

I also have several synthesizers...a very rare Yamaha GS-1, an even more rare Korg PS-3200, a Roland JX-10, a PPG Wave 2.3, and several rack-mount units...a Kawai K3M, Korg Poly-61M, and a Yamaha TX-802.

The Korg PS-3200 was my most recent...it had been stored almost from new and was mint...bought it from a guy in Canada, who also sold me the Yamaha GS-1 and the Roland JX-10.

And, there's the '57 Hammond B-3, and Leslie 147RV, and a Fender Rhodes 73 that's presently being overhauled/restored...it was in rough shape, but has a valuable history and serial number.

It's a passion of mine, both professionally, and for fun.

One of my homes is mostly taken up with my studio and instruments (my play-room).

I'm basically retired from the music business, and am now living an "under the radar" lifestyle.

The Yamaha Avant Grand and PSR-S910 are my most recent acquisitions.

I'm at the age where I realize you can't take it with you, so when I die, I plan on owing a lot of money. ;


If there is an answer in there, damned if I can find it. I guess it's good to know that Zeke comes up short on street smarts (whoever he is) grin.

The reason I asked was that you're all over the new Yamaha product threads. I can understand completely why you're as happy as a pig in .... with the Avant since you have one. I was curious about your 'got-to-get-me-one-of-those' comments on the new C series flagship model. I believe those models exist only on paper for those of us here. I figure if you're ready to buy a new C flagship model, you're either a Yamaha true believer who is ready to buy just on specs (such as spectral modeling), a well-to-do player who samples everything new by buying it to find out what's it like, or (heaven forbid) someone in the Yamaha sales pipeline.

To be honest, I thought about this after I read your perfunctory Roland dustoff in this thread. You essentially posted that Rolands all thump but the newer ones aren't as bad as the others. I was trying to get beyond the generalizations of thump, click, and clunkyness to understand what each contributor had in mind, so I was disappointed to read that particular post of yours. I don't recall any similar brush-offs of any Yamaha products in your posts here.

Here's a quote I was able to dig up from one of your posts.

Quote
Of course it's an "opinion", Johnny, it's all each of us have here on this forum. I'm in the music business a long time, and perhaps you are too, so all we can do is give an educated opinion.....
We both know that 99% of it is pure hype, and the 1% left is impure hype. wink
Snazzy
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]
It's comments like that one that made me wonder, especially since at this point 'spectral modeling' is just hype unless you've sampled the instrument.





Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
turandot #1330849 12/21/09 06:27 PM
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If there is a point in your post, Johnny, darned if I can find it.

If you are still wondering if I'm a piano dealer, the answer is no...if I was, I would have mentioned it in my last post.

Yes, all Roland's thump, click and clunk...perhaps you are stuck with one of them, and that's why you are so angry. Can't say I blame you.

I don't ever recall saying I was going to buy a CP1 without playing it.

I have a CP-300, but I'd like to replace it...is there something that hard to understand about wanting new gear?

If my enthusiastic posts seem to hit a nerve with you, perhaps you should look within, and find the real source of your very apparent unhappiness.


Snazzy



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Irritating noise when pressing HP-207's keys
snazzyplayer #1330875 12/21/09 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
If there is a point in your post, Johnny, darned if I can find it.

If you are still wondering if I'm a piano dealer, the answer is no...if I was, I would have mentioned it in my last post.

Yes, all Roland's thump, click and clunk...perhaps you are stuck with one of them, and that's why you are so angry. Can't say I blame you.

I don't ever recall saying I was going to buy a CP1 without playing it.

I have a CP-300, but I'd like to replace it...is there something that hard to understand about wanting new gear?

If my enthusiastic posts seem to hit a nerve with you, perhaps you should look within, and find the real source of your very apparent unhappiness.


Snazzy



Snazzy,

I wasn't angry or unhappy then, and I'm not angry or unhappy now. My question was direct, but polite, and I stated the reason for it. It seems to have irritated you greatly. That was not my intent.

Yes, all Roland's thump, click and clunk...perhaps you are stuck with one of them, and that's why you are so angry. Can't say I blame you.

Although that comment does not contribute to the thread subject, it is always interesting to get a glimpse at what lies below the surface veneer of glib self-congratulary comments.

I am not 'stuck' with any instrument I own. None of them are perfect. I'm unaware of any keyboard instruments that are. I feel lucky to have the ones that I do and try to make the most of each one. I think in a way that's more appealing than to have someone's idea of musical perfection in front of my eyes and fingers.



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
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