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#1325665 - 12/14/09 11:56 PM squirting pins  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member
Anson Everitt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Utah
the store i'm tuning for has only 25%humidity. Its a massive book store/scrapbook store/music store. The books like the dry climate, but the tuning pins on some of the grands i tuned looked like they were gettin ready to squirt out of their holes any second. Seriously, i could tell with my naked eye that the distance from the bottom of the coil to the plate had grown an eighth of an inch or so since i last tuned 7 months ago. so How BAD is 25%??????


Anson Everitt
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#1325673 - 12/15/09 12:15 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]  
Joined: Jun 2003
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BDB Offline
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BDB  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Oakland
It is more likely that your memory is faulty than the distance between the coils and the plate have changed that much. Humidity changes would do nothing to change that, although it might affect tuning pin bushings. If there is that much change, it would likely indicate a drastic problem with the pin block and its mating to the plate.

The change in humidity is the more important than the amount of humidity.


Semipro Tech
#1325697 - 12/15/09 01:06 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]  
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Anson Everitt
How BAD is 25%??????

at a low/medium heat 8% too low from the minimum adviseable without trouble.

books like dryness, they also adbsorb moisture, so it may be a dry place all the year and the piano can get used to it.

The tone can tell you if the soundboard is really suffering, the pinning can be soft in winter and normal in summer.

SB are sometime dried to 4% moisture in prevision of this (so they retain their crown). to get there 77°c and 14% HR (I did not verify the numbers but they may be close)

I did not understood it is a piano store !! they should consider at last some humidification (again some money !!)

Last edited by Kamin; 12/15/09 01:07 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1325897 - 12/15/09 12:08 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Olek]  
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Posts: 3,458
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
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Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Albuquerque, NM
Measure A4 on a few pianos. How flat are they going? That tells you everything you need to know about how they are responding to their environment. I typically see swings of +/- 20 cents from winter to summer.

25% is way too low, but it's often hard to get it higher in a store, especially if it's in a mall with central heating. Most piano stores in cold climates have a fleet of humidifiers running in winter.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
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#1326242 - 12/15/09 09:59 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]  
Joined: Oct 2006
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David Jenson Offline
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David Jenson  Offline
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Posts: 2,559
Strong, Maine
Although it's colorful imagery, tuning pins don't "squirt" out of the holes. They have fine threads that cut into the pin block, and even when they are turned most of the way out, they don't "squirt". I've removed a lot of them, and have yet to get one in the eye that squirted out!


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#1326342 - 12/16/09 12:47 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: David Jenson]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member
Anson Everitt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Utah
Oh, I'm so relieved to know they won't squirt out and hit me. That means i can take my safety glasses off when i go back tomorrow.

Anson Everitt
member-PTG


Anson Everitt
PTG associate
#1326352 - 12/16/09 01:02 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member
Anson Everitt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Utah
No, seriously, there's gotta be about $500,000 worth of inventory in there waiting to be destroyed. There's a $30,000 Baldwin "Artist" series with the veneer peeling off. The other "Artist" grands are the ones with the 3/8" space between coil and plate. THAT in itself can't be good. Can it? Should those be tapped back in?

There was a definite change in humidity. We're in Utah and the winter air gets freakin' dry. Perfect for creating the best snow on the planet for skiing and other snow activities. Not so great for pianos. The store owners don't seem to take the information i've given them about the low humidity too seriously. I would, if my flooring was up on half a mil. in pianos. I'd like to take charge of this problem even though they are pianos of lesser quality (Gibson Baldwins,eww) i guess i just head over to the home center and pick some portable humidifiers eh?

Last edited by Anson Everitt; 12/16/09 01:17 AM.

Anson Everitt
PTG associate
#1326386 - 12/16/09 02:11 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
the most efficient humidifiers in that case are professional models that contain a large fan that flow the dry air an a moisted grill. Then with the heat the air get dry in a natural way, without calcium ruining the high frequency elements or installation of white hard dust on the furniture.

If not the ones who boil water are OK but they dont last for long.

their instruments are yet out of the guaranty from the maker.... There are accepted HR levels depending of the warmness of air on the Petrof's website (it can go relatively low in winter, up to 32 %, but we are under that number generally when there is dryness problem)

Last edited by Kamin; 12/16/09 02:12 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1326585 - 12/16/09 11:54 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Olek]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,129
Gene Nelson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gene Nelson  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,129
Old Hangtown California
the 3/8" space between coil and plate. THAT in itself can't be good. Can it? Should those be tapped back in?
____________________________________________________________

some things to consider:
How does the angle of approach of the string look from the first termination to the bottom of the coil on the pin - is it paralell to the plate? Is it difficult to maintain a tight coil? What is the angle of the tuning pins? How long are the pins and how far are they driven into the block? Are the tuning pin holes in the block drilled all the way through so you can see into them from the under side?
If you tap the pins down will they come through the bottom of the block? If the holes are not drilled through then you will need to remove a pin and take some measurements or risk delaminating the bottom layer of the block.


RPT
PTG Member
#1326622 - 12/16/09 12:49 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Gene Nelson]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member
Anson Everitt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Utah
Gene,

Thank you. I will take note of the things you mentioned and move forward accordingly. Do you know of good model of Humidifier to put in the general vicinity of these pianos?

Anson Everitt
PTG assoc.


Anson Everitt
PTG associate
#1326626 - 12/16/09 12:56 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,129
Gene Nelson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gene Nelson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,129
Old Hangtown California
Anson,
Sorry, I cannot help with humidifeir types but if it is for a room, any reputable HVAC company should be able to offer one that is designed for the room.


RPT
PTG Member

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