Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards NEED help buying digital console piano for beginner.....

The more I read about which DP to buy the more I get confused. Here is what I want. A DP console (I think that is the proper name) the one that actually has the stand, pedals etc. I am buying this for my 8 year old son but want something that will look good and last for years. My top price to pay is $1,100. Any ideas what to buy?

Hi,

The DP will not last for many years as it's with the real piano.
The DP has inside a lot of electronics and after some time it will not work any longer.
However the exploitation takes several years - of course depends on model (upto 20?).
The other thing is that DP is not such good investment as an real piano.
You will get probably 1/3 price after 3 years (and after 3yrs it will be hard to sell it)?

With the price around 1100$ you can get really nice instrument, probably with fully weighted keys.

The price for weighted keys start from around 650Euros (probably 650$) and they cover:
* Kawai CL series (25 & 35),
* Korg Sp250,
* Yamaha YDP-S31 & YDP140 & P85.

The better one DP's will have fully weighted keys and the price starts from around 1100 Euros (probably 1100 $). This are:
* Kawai CA & CN series, or stage piano like ES6
* Yamaha YDP160 & > CLP320 & P155
* Roland RP-101 & F-110

Probably there is much more to add here but personally I think this are a major instruments in this categories.
This were the ones I considered when buying an instrument.

Instruments from the 1st group probably will be sufficient for 1-2 years of intensive beginner lessons. Afterwords you could upgraded it to heavy weighted keys.

Greetings, Mariusz.

Unless you get a good brand name like Yamaha or Steinway, a second hand acoustic is usually hard to sell.

I have a 19 year old digital piano (Roland HP-1700) that has given few problems...maintenance over that period of time would amount to a little over $100.

Cost of maintenance on an acoustic over 20 years....well, let's just say it would be considerable.

Most, if not all, digital piano actions are based on the key mechanism in a grand piano, so, although they will vary in touch from model to model, they are all nice to play and feel like an acoustic.

A Yamaha P-85, with the optional stand and pedals, looks very nice, takes up little room, sounds excellent, has a beautifully weighted 88 note hammer action keybed that would be just the right feel for an 8 year old child; sorta like the baby bear's porridge...just right.

Because the P-85 has no accompaniment section that will go out of fashion in a few years, it will be an easy item to sell if you want to get something fancier down the road.

Also, in my experience, the Yamaha instruments tend to have a higher trade-in value.

In conclusion, the Yamaha P-85 won't cost you an arm and a leg either, so your initial investment doesn't need to be high.

I can vouch for the P-85 because I own two of them; I am a professional player with many years in the music business.

Good luck with your search,

Snazzy

I'd advise you to consider raising your maximum to $1,500 or so, since you want something that lasts and looks good. $1,100 is really a little too low for that. But there's e.g. the Yamaha YDP-160 at about $1,350.

The YDP-223 is about $1,500, it's an oldie-but-goldie by Yamaha. Particularly the feel of the keys is impressive, much more solid than most other DPs.

Then there's the Kawai CN-22--a somewhat lighter touch and pretty impressive dynamics. I think the price is about $1,600.

^^I disagree.
The keays on the lower end models are just as heavily weighted as on the higher end models, in casios case even heavier. This goes for every manufacturer except for Roland and Yamaha. The YDP 140 and S31, and the P80 have lighter keys, the GHS action, which IMO is not very good.
Also, the Roland RP 101's action is much lighter than that of the SP 250. It has the PHA II alpha keyboard, which is a cheaper and lighter version of the PHA (which is the best action IMO).
So, allinall, your keyweighth theory is incorrect IMO.

^Snazzy, I've been watching your posts for quite some time...
Do you work for Yamaha?

You are entitled to your opinion, Joe, but it doesn't make mine any less valid.

I am correct in regards to the P-85, the instrument I recommended, out of personal experience. I own a P-85 and have been playing it for some time. Do you have any experience with it, other than playing it in a store?

The P-85 has a lighter touch, and is therefore more suitable for an 8 year old, while still providing a realistic piano feel.

Do I work for Yamaha?

No, do you?

And, just to set things entirely straight, I use what is best for my needs, irregardless of the brand; I have Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Hammond, Fender, PPG, and Kawai instruments in my kit, so I'm not leaning towards any brand for any other reason than it is the best for a particular need.

In the above case, the Yamaha P-85 is the best for the poster's needs.

Have a nice day,

Snazzy

But, but, but Snazzy, on these forums only Casio fanboyism is never, ever questioned. Anybody who has anything positive to say about Yamaha instruments is regarded with instant suspicion. Sorry, forum rules...

Personally I have to say that I went with Kawai Cl25 instead of the P85.
The sound of P85 was much better, also I think in future it's easier to sell it.
However I felt much better with the keyboard on kawai than on p85 (just personal experience).
The other thing was that Kawai was cheaper.

You can find reviews of both on youtube.

Seems to be that way, Martin. I am a fanboy of the P-85; I don't necessarily love all Yamaha digitals, any more than I like all Roland, Casio, or Korg instruments.

But, the P-85 is cooler than a tall glass of sasparilla on hot day.

The Casio stuff is okay, but I keep gettin' the feeling they are using the cheapest possible parts they can get away with.

There will be people who are made very happy by a Casio piano, and I wouldn't laugh at them, even though it is resoundingly not my sort of keyboard.

In a perfect world we are here to be fair and unbiased; but we all have our favorites.

Some people buy brands, some people join them and I am of the former description.

Glad to see that at least you and I are on the same team.

Snazzy

i would recommend Yamaha YDP140 in your price range. GHS action is decent, although many people dismiss it as too light. actually it's not that light. P85 is a lesser choice imo, because of its 1-level dynamic sampling.

lol
I was asking if you worked for Yamaha since you seemed to know a lot of stuff about them.

Also I did say IMO (in my opinion), so, it IS just my opinion.

But I would also dissagree about the P85 being the best choice, since I tryed it and the PX 130 side by side and I thought the PX 130 better. Not by much, but still better.
Again, only my opinion.

Denverdave: You should take your son to a store and let him try different models in your price range and decide which suits him best.

Joe,

I can't explain why the P-85 felt the way it did to me. Digitals are a combination of things, and overall, the P-85 scored high on my chart.

I don't always go by specs, so how many layers a digital has, doesn't sway me too much. I go by how it makes me feel when I play it.

The P-85 had the right combination of great sound, ease of use, just enough features to make it interesting, and I really thought the action was great.

It is more than the sum of it's parts.

The Yamaha name commands respect, and when selling or trading up, it is an advantage that we can't deny.

I'm not saying to only buy a Yamaha, and like you, I would advise playing different pianos that interest you, but in my heart I can only make a suggestion based on my experience with the piano, and also my years of playing and teaching and studio work.

The Casio action, to me was heavier, and perhaps it would work well for some, but I believe that for an 8 year old taking lessons, it shouldn't be that heavy.

Sorta like having an acoustic guitar with a high action...not all that great for a beginner, or a person with weak hands. They wouldn't play it much, if at all.

You want the kid to play their piano a lot.

The weight/response of the P-85's action is very playable, and still feels like a lighter actioned grand. Reminds me of the old Steinway B my buddy has in his studio....nicely broken in.

Snazzy

And if you ask me, that whole smooth blending of sample layers that is supposed to happen in the PX-330 and 130 doesn't quite work. Something like the YDP-223, almost a dinosaur by DP standards, is still being lauded for its expressiveness and tone, and it only has a single layer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjvbjL_GVWo).

The SP-250 only has one layer too and doesn't sound that bad, although I think the attack part of the sound is not as good as on the P-85. But that's not an inherent limitation of the engineering approach, just bad sampling.

Single-layer pianos definitely aren't dead yet. The multi-sampling technique still has ways to go IMHO before it wins clearly over a single layer every time...

^I thought the Sp 250 had 3-layer sampling? The same as the LP 350.

^^Yeah, I guess it might be a little heavy, but that's good for building finger strenghth IMO.
Also, people might prefer the heavier action, just as I did.

Ferengi rule of acquistion #218 says...



Always know what you are buying.

You're right again, Joe, but if they don't like playing it much, then they won't build finger strength, because they won't be on it enough.

"I can't play it, Pop, it makes my wrists sore."

"Dad, how come I like playing my friend Percival's P-85 piano more than my Casio?"

I'm pretty sure you ain't an 8 year old beginner, Joe, although you do have a youthfulness in your writing that is disarming.

Ever play a Rhodes that wasn't quite up to mechanical specs? Now, that's an experience! It like having three or four different actioned pianos under your fingers at the same time.

I have a Suitcase '73 that is being restored, and the action has been the toughest area to fix.

Snazzy

Not according to this: http://purgatorycreek.com/documents/26_278.html

"Multiple Velocity Samples: No"

Some possible ordinary priced DPs:

• Korg LP350 Extremely strong key action for the price. Some people think the sound is a bit too mellow. Several voices. Claims to have "multiple levels" (3?) of sampling. 3-pedal console.
• Korg SP250 Extremely strong key action for the price. Some people think the sound is a bit too mellow. Several voices. 1-level sampling. 1-pedal keyboard.
• Casio AP-620 Good key action, close to the Korg SP250. Lots of synth voices & accompaniments. More expensive. 3-pedal console.
• Casio PX-830 Good key action, close to the Korg SP250. Some people think the sound is a little too thin. 3-pedal console.
• Kurzweil SP2SX Lots of sounds & voices of decent quality. Good key action. 2-pedal stand.
• Kurzweil PC3X Abundance of sounds & voices. Good key action. No speakers. Clearly better than SP2SX. 3-pedal keyboard type.
• (no link) Yamaha YDP-223 Legendary digital piano. Very good 1-level sampled sound, outperforming 3-level DPs like YDP-160. Regular key action. 3-pedal console.
• Yamaha P-155 Very good sound considering the speakers. Regular key action. 1-pedal keyboard.
• Kawai ES6 Very good key action. Nice sounds. Lots of accompaniments! Several voices. 3-pedal console.
• Kawai CN42 Very good key action. Extremely (?) good sound. Several voices. Expensive. 3-pedal console. (see also the Kawai CN32)
• Roland HP203 Extremely good key action. Expensive compared to the others. Lots of extra voices. 3-pedal console.
• Casio CDP-200R Low price. Lots of synth sounds & accompaniments. Graded Hammer key action of light quality. 1-pedal stand.

pick one!


In order to decide if you ĺike a digital piano or not, pay attention to two things when you compare them in the shop:

• Do you like the faked Graded Hammer action of the keyboard?
• Do you like the sound of the Grand Piano voices?

Some 1-pedal keyboards can be upgraded by buying a 3-pedal unit.

You forgot the Yamaha P-85 with stand and pedals, Huggens. Best bang for the buck out there...looks great as well.

Three pedal unit is optional, and fastens to the stand.

Highly recommended by most piano teachers.

Snazzy.

I ... really ... left .. that .. out . on . purpose.