Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Do owners of grands find it difficult to play on uprights?

I mean, if you own and are used to playing on a grand, and then go visit your friend who has an upright, and your friend asks you to play something, do you find yourself fumbling over trills and mordents because the action on an upright requires the key to come back up much further before it can be pressed again? There's no repetition lever on an upright, either.

Hi,

I’m not that good of a piano player, but I’ll respond to your question.
I have a decent 5’10” grand and very nice studio upright. I find that I much prefer to play my grand piano, even though I have easy access to either. As good as the touch and tone of my Pertof upright is, my grand feels better and sounds better to me.

I rarely play my upright anymore. I’ve thought about selling it, but my wife likes the looks of it.

Best regards,

Rick

I've got a good grand and a good upright. I enjoy playing them both. No question I can have better dynamic control with the grand. I could be wrong, but when it comes to the repetition advantage of a grand, I don't think that shows up until someone reaches a very high level of technical proficiency. My LH skill is very poor, but my RH skill is very good because I was an accomplished accordionist by the time I was 15. But I've never been able to get my upright to get hung up from deficiency of repetition even on the fastest of trills. And by the way, I don't even know what a mordent is!

Personally, I would gladly play both instruments.

However, playing a spinet with drop action is another story...

Short answer, no, not really, because I'm used to playing different pianos. I have a well-maintained and regulated Yamaha C3 grand, but regularly play on all sorts of pianos from steinways to old heaps of firewood. Part of your skill as a pianist is being able to get the best out of what you're given to play on. It's not always the uprights that are the sub-standard ones where action is concerned! But I have to say that the biggest issue for me in going from a grand to an upright is height and nearness of music desk - in other words, vision issues...

I'm hardly a spectacular player, but have played grand since I was a kid. When I have played uprights, I generally find the touch not quite as subtle and responsive. A well regulated grand seem much easier to play a wide range of dynamics than most uprights.

That being said, I have plaid a few uprights (very few) that were surprisingly satisfying to play. While my 1887 Knabe was being restored, there was a Steinway upright in the shop that I took an opportunity to try out. The mechanism was already rebuilt/restored and regulated, new hammers, new strings, etc. The cabinet was not yet done because the tech was leaving that until he had a buyer, then they could specify the cabinet finish they liked. The Steinway upright (a very tall upright) was astounding. I am hardly a virtuoso, but it was the closest thing to a grand that I've experienced in an upright. The taller Yamaha professional uprights, I've hear, are also pretty amazing, but don't approach the feel of a nice grand.

I think, though, and others might be able to elaborate on this as well, that a major detractor from being used to a grand and going to an upright is the change in sound. Most uprights are at most 48-52" tall, and so they can't really compete with a grand in sound and accoustics. You rarely see an upright with a case that opens up to allow the sound to escape, whereas grands are almost always played with the lid open.

I have talked to people that are unaccustomed to playing on a grand and find the action feel quite different and prefer to play their upright rather than a nice grand -- but my guess is that if they had a regular access to a grand, they'd soon change their mind.

You might want to check out Del Fandrich's sight and google his company. They have an incredible upright that he designed to have grand-like sound and key response. I really would love to try one of his uprights sometime. And, if I were to ever have to convert to an upright for space reasons, I'd get on the waiting list to have one made for me.

Well, I find it difficult to play on ANY piano.

To give a serious answer to your question, the biggest problem I have when playing on an upright is getting used to the shorter keys I find on a lot of them. My fingers bump into the fallboard more often.

Hello Sean,

I asked this same question in May 2009 and here are the answers people gave me back then:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...%20players%20difficulty.html#Post1196438

No big deal switching between the 3 pianos in my signature. Now, a crappy/unregulated new or older upright is a problem...

Crogersrx,

I'll pit the sound of my 51" upright against any smaller grand, thank you very much... I've been fortunate enough to audition 2 uprights with the Fandrich Vertical Action- a 49" Klima and a 49" Feurich. The Feurich version was particularly awesome overall, though both were more (or, in the case of the Feurich, a lot more) than the Schimmel I bought. Definitely the "ultimate" upright action...though I'd take the Bechstein concert 8 for sound.

My at-home piano is a 1991 Yamaha UE-1 upright. Its in pretty good shape. But I just started up with a new teacher who happens to be a Steinway artist. The lessons are at the local Steinway dealer so we use the 9 ft Steinway D most of the time. Visiting Steinway artists use this piano when giving informal concerts, master classes etc. Quite a thrill to play on such a beautiful instrument but because the action is a touch stiffer than my upright, I find it a challenge to play quieter passages without occasionally dropping notes altogether. This is not a knock on the Steinway at all (if anything its a knock on ME for not adjusting). My point is that under the circumstances, I probably have more difficulty going from my upright to a grand (from a touch standpoint). Hopefully I'll be able to one day afford a decent grand to practice on so I can take full advantage of the dynamic range it has to offer. My upright's sound is fairly bright and vanilla.

A good and well regulated upright, like our own Sauter upright at home, can be a joy to own and play on.

A not-so-nice grand with no or poor regulation can be a dud.

Amazing how many teachers own one of those....

So, it really depends - each case is different.

Norbert

I am a beginner since Feb 2008. I have had my M&H AA since April 2009. When I went to Summerkeys in August this year, I had an opportunity to play on several uprights and grand pianos of many different manufacturers. There were probably adjustments that I made that I was not conscious of as I went between pianos. However, the worst piano that I played was a Steinway concert grand, at least 10 feet long. We had to play on that piano the last night in a recital for the assembled students and faculty. For me, it was terrible, compared to my M&H and compared to all the other pianos at the camp. I don't think it was the pressure of the recital because I haven't had that problem in other recitals.

The bottom line for me is that I have learned not to have automatic expectations or biases regarding pianos that I get to play. I just sit down and see if I can make music that satisfies me. Mostly, I enjoy almost any piano I get to play. I didn't enjoy that Steinway though.

On some uprights I have noticed that the keys are a bit shorter. And so I don't stretch my fingers out as much. Feel a little limited that way. But you adjust to what you've got. The sound of the piano is the first thing I'll notice, then the feel. Okay, maybe the other way around. Always a surprise either way really!

Think a good tuner/technician can play a "HUGE" part in it's performance ability!

Dianne...
You make a very valid point, one which is missed in many of the references, in these pages, to how a particular piano plays.
Everyone should please remember that the difference between a well maintained and prepped piano compared to a rarely tuned, poorly maintained piano is so huge as to be laughable.
The question at hand is a very valid one, and an issue which can cause concern i.e....is it me or the piano????

The geometry and 'assist' springs in a modern grand, if maintained, will make it easier to articulate trills...however, a quality upright will make up in tone what it lack in agility...but the grand 'should' be easier to play.

I would venture to suggest that ALL pianos out there would benefit from some technical 'intervention' (a buzz word on a specific TV programme, so I've been told)...seems appropriate to use it here as many owners have no idea that their keyboard can be made to feel smoother with a very simple procedure...one that even a beginner tooner should be able to do (upright pianos are much easier to do than grands)... Keyboard friction is out there....get rid of it and the feel will be instantly improved...

Applications for the procedure should be requested written on the back of a $20 bill....
Send it to Pete c/o Redwood City, CA...only kidding.....ask your tech....

I think that is a serious answer. I have the exact problem. I think this is especially true if you only play on one piano (home) all the time. When I was in school, I played all sorts of pianos, and there were some favorites that were always in use. Back then, I never had any problems switching from any piano to any other piano.

The biggest difference between playing my grand (basically the only horizontal piano I play) and an upright is my perception of where the sound is. The sound on my grand envelopes me. It's vibrant, and I'm a part of it.

In contrast, the sound on an upright is a mile away - I suppose because the soundboard is facing away. It's a sensation similar to playing an organ when the pipes (or speakers) are across the room. There is a disconnect.

Karen

Ha. I currently have a spinet with drop action. From 1953.

Can you tell me some more about this, because this is actually what inspired my question.

I noticed that when playing trills and mordents, I mess them up frequently. The key has to come almost all the way back up before I can press it again. I have to play them so carefully, that to play them up to speed it's hard not to also play them very LOUDLY because I have to move my fingers so quickly. Sometimes I can pull it off successfully. Often times, I mess up.

(OK, being able to do it successfully will probably help me play more articulately on _any_ piano...)

But I noticed when playing a grand at the store a while back, I really didn't have this problem. Somehow it was easier to play such ornaments.

I had assumed it was due to the difference between vertical and horizontal actions, but hadn't considered it's due to the difference between decent, modern actions and the drop-action from a cheap 1950s spinet.

The problem with your spinet is probably the regulation, more than anything else. I bet it has not been done since the piano was made. Very few people have anything done other than tuning.

It is a bigger adjustment going from a well regulated piano to an unregulated piano than it is going from an upright to a grand. As Norbert said, a well regulated upright will play better than an out of regulation grand.

For me, the problems I run in to playing uprights (I have a grand at home) relate not to the music itself, but to eyesight. My increased age has caused me to become farsighted. I wear reading glasses to read, and weaker reading glasses to play my piano. Unfortunately, when I sit down at an upright, I often find that the music is too close, so reading it becomes a real challenge with or without glasses. I guess my arms aren't long enough!

I did grow up learning on a huge old upright, though, so the differences in touch, etc., don't bother me.

With a 5'10" grand and a 46" studio upright, I have the same issues that most people outlined above. The grand is certainly easier to play (the action is simply more responsive) and the sound is a grand sound. The upright has many benefits as well, including an easier soft pedal. The action fights you, though, and if I had to play in a nightclub I would be paralyzed by the end of the evening, but it does allow remarkable control over ppp's. That being said, I prefer the grand because of the, well, grand sound! And I could play it all night without any repercussions. But I'm keeping the keeping the upright because it looks good in the guest room!