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I wouldn't say it's a "good idea". I mean you gotta do what you gotta do, but as I've heard others say, "If you want to master the clarinet, don't buy a kazoo". There are no 61 key 'boards with weighted keyboards to my knowledge. There are very few 76 key's out there with even semi-weighted actions.

Right now you can get a Casio CDP-100 for around $299. Not a perfect piano, but leaps and bounds above anything unweighted.

The unweighted - weighted transition isn't as hard as you might think, but at first you will think it is too much work. Then you will wonder how you ever lived without it. The thing I'm afraid of, is if you start on an unweighted board, you are unlikely to get as much enjoyment out of playing and then you will give up. When you play an unweighted keyboard you are missing out on at least 50% of the essence of playing a piano, so don't let the 'feel' of it sway your decision as to whether or not you want to continue.

Alright it looks like the casio CDP-100 is my best choice.


~Thanks guys

You could start with a 61 unweighted velocity sensitive keyboard, but it would take a bit of time to retrain your fingers to weighted keys.

Sort of like going from a car with power steering to one without, or from an electric guitar to an acoustic.

You could learn the very basics on a 61 note instrument, and there are 61 note touch sensitive pianos available second hand, made by Yamaha and Roland, but just about any 61 note with velocity will do, so you could include some arranger keyboards as well...the latter are fairly plentiful.

I would encourage you to switch to weighted keys as soon as possible, once you've determined your direction.

Snazzy

I've been playing on an unweighted keyboard, A quality one (It sold new or $1,600) but still an unweighted one. You can learn a lot on one. but you can't learn to control dynamics so well. But really if you are a beginner you can lean for months and months on a cheap keyboard. But at some point you will want to upgrade.

The big thing is to stop stalling and get started. Everything else is "just details" compared the starting.

There is actually an advantage to buying something cheap to start. because later when you do buy the more expensive DP you will know enough to make in informed decision. You will have had the experiance of playing a teacher's piano. Buy it now and you are depending on luck and guesses and the advice from people like me (which is worth maybe only what you are paying for it.)

You make some good points.

Does anyone recommend a certain unweighted keyboard for a beginner?

Yamaha PSR-E413

Yamaha PSR-E223

Casio CTK-2100

Casio CTK-4000

Casio CTK-3000

Casio CTK-5000

Lhowatt,

I'm torn what I should advise.

A Casio CDP100 will probably be a good piano for you for several years.

The keyboards snazzyplayer are suggesting will start you out learning to play very well, albeit without as much control as you would have from a weighted digital piano.

If you are interested in more popular styles, this may work just fine for you for a long time, a lot of popular piano players only play keyboards.

If you are interested in classical music, then you really want the weighted keys.

No matter what you decide, I think it is important to just get started.

Rich

[/quote]

You make some good points.

Does anyone recommend a certain unweighted keyboard for a beginner? [/quote]

If the CDP is to much money, then seriously, just look on Crieg's List and buy whatever someone is selling for for $50 or less. Guitar Center and even Best Buy has new 61 key keyboards for under $100. At the under $100 price point you will get a keyboard that works and you can learn all the beginner material. Then sell it in four months for 1/2 what you paid and you are out $50 max.

Buy a book too while you are there.

I started on one. The transition for me was a couple of months, but I'm not very talented and don't get a lot of practice time. You can find a touch sensitive keyboard for $150 new. There are a ton of them on Craigslist, you should be able to get one complete with a stand and a bench for less than $100. If you just want to dip your toe into the water, it's fine for that. Just make sure that the one you get is touch sensitive, so you can get learn dynamics. I have an old Yamaha PSR-280, and still sometimes use it when I'm learning a new song. We have some kind of crummy DPs at the studio where I take lessons, and I swear that the PSR's touch sensitivity is more useful than is the Williams DP's is.

Ahhhhh, so we have someone else besides Gyro who is familiar with the Williams. My good buddy, Zeke, is tracking down one at a music store and we're going to test it out, but in the mean time, perhaps Mr. FormerFF can elaborate on this instrument.

Why did you not like the William's action?

What about the sound...the piano okay?

Alternate sounds okay?

Considering the instrument in question costs about $700, do you consider it a good beginner piano to use for several months until you trade it in on something, shall we say, better?

A short review, Mr.FormerFF, if you please, if it is not too much trouble?

Snazzy

Lol I saw a Williams baby grand - style DP earlier today (for $1299). Felt pretty cheap and it didn't sound too great either. It seems like all the Williams models have wobbly keys and pretty terrible sampling. Stay away from them.

So far its CDP-100 For the win unless someone has a horrible review about it or something even more amazing to say about it for a piano in that price range.

What! Are you still waiting? Get the Casio and get started with your music.

Only other great little piano keyboard for very little money I can think of is the Yamaha NP-30, which has 76 keys, Graded Soft Touch, transposer, dedicated MIDI ports, and weighs only 12 lbs.

A friend of mine has one for playing in church, especially for choir practice.

The piano sound is excellent, and you can layer piano and strings for a really nice orchestral sound...it has reverb as well.

Good luck with your music.

Snazzy

Let me preface this by saying the one that I am familiar with is the Etude Mk 2, which is what we have at the studio where I take lessons. If the current model is a clean sheet design, these comments may not apply.

You asked about the action. It has a lot of friction when you first press the key, then it seems to all go away and the key quickly drops to the keybed with little additional force. My main frame of reference is an older but still nice 49" Kawai upright that we have at home, and the keypress of the Williams is very different from the smooth, consistent weighting of the acoustic. What bothers me more is how utterly unresponsive the Williams is to touch. A very soft press gets the same tone, and more distressingly, almost exactly the same volume as a hard get-the-whole-arm-and-wrist-going motion does. Like I was saying, the PSR keyboard we have at home has a considerably better velocity sensitivity than does the Williams.

I would say that most inexpensive DPs sound (through their speakers) like a good recording of a nice grand played on an inexpensive stereo. The Etude's tone is ersatz sounding, almost as if it is synthesized rather than sampled. It's perfectly usable for learning, but that's about it. The speakers are fine at a moderate volume level. As far as the other sounds go, I've only ever tried the elecric pianos, and they were both disappointing.

The Etude has a few other odd features. If you hold the key down for an extended period of time, the sound drops to a low level, then remains constant. It's kind of odd, but since it's not something you'd need to do, it's not an issue.

I would not recommend this piano to anyone, mainly on the basis of its odd touch and lack of dynamic range. I've tried the Casio PX-120 and PX-575, Yamha P-85, P-120, and YPG-635, and Korg SP-250 in music stores, and would choose any of them over the Williams. To my fingers, the Casios feel best, but that may have more to do with the piano we have at home, since I'm used to a heavier touch.

I suspect there's a good reason you're having a hard time finding the Williams in a music store.

the NP-30 does not have weighted keys does it?

I am thinking more on the Casio now but im not sure if it is a good idea to spend $300 on a keyboard when i have never tried to play piano before and am moving off to college in a while. Would going form non weighted keys to weighted be a difficult transition? I am somewhat confused from these posts.

NP-30 doesn't have weighted keys, but it's labeled as 'semi-weighted'? i wouldn't go for it.

the point is that playing weighted or non-weighted keyboard makes huge difference on your techniques and dynamic control. the transition from non-weighted to weighted will be a 'shock' for you at first, if you're used to non-weighted keyboard. basically, you have to retrain yourself to get used to the action on an acoustic or a good digital piano, which means that you'd have wasted a lot of time playing on non-weighted keyboard which gives you nothing on real piano techniques. you can learn notes and pressing keys on any keyboard, but to gain the dynamic control of your touch and good piano techniques, you'd have to play a real piano or a digital piano (with graded weighted action). my point is that if your goal is playing 'piano', not a synth keyboard, then you'd be better off starting straightly from something with weighted action.

Casio CDP100 is an old DP (really old Casio DP, 1st generation like Casio PX100), and it has a new replacement model CDP200 out now. but even just this one is far better than any cheap keyboard, since its weighted keys at least will train your hands and fingers properly. so, if that's all you can afford, then go for it or find some used Yamaha DP, like P60/70.

I stated the NP-30 had "Graded Soft Touch".



Snazzy

Lhowatt,

I have a DGX 220 (unweighted variant of the DGX 230) and have been looking for a new digital piano for quite some time now. I finally settled on a PX330 (more expensive version of the PX130). This gave me the 'benefit' of switching often between weighted and unweighted keyboards. It's not impossible, but it is quite frustrating sometimes. Whenever I switch from unweighted to weighted, I can't play for very long, and whenever I go back from weighted to unweighted my technique is very very sloppy until I get used to it.

Especially if you have huge hands/fingers like me, weighted is WAY easier to play on, because the keyboard is much more forgiving on mistakes. on my unweighted keyboard, the friction from the side of my index finger (when playing a white key, E for instance) and cause an adjacent black key to sound as well. My musically inclined friends say that while my technique is fine, my dynamics are absolutely awful, especially on weighted.

If I were you, I would get a PX-130 for like $300 (if you can manage...I expect you to pay $350 for it). keep in mind that if you buy online through the right companies, you can avoid paying sales tax. look in their help sections to see if they do or dont.

woah snazzy, thats creepy...

I suppose so, Munkyeegutz, but the NP-30 is actually a pretty nice budget piano, and it does have 76 notes with at least a bit of resistance as opposed to the 5-octave fly-weight el cheapo jobbies that Lhowatt was actually considering only a few posts back.

And, it's piano sound is actually pretty nice...and, we both know that if'n it don't sound nice, you ain't a gonna spend as much time playing it. The word "play-ing" seems to be derived from the word play which means, at least to some of us, "Engage in recreational activities rather than work; occupy oneself in a diversion"

Now, what was so creepy that tugged so hard on your little Munkee tail?

Snazzy