|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
75 members (bluebilly, accordeur, BillS728, aphexdisklavier, bobrunyan, anotherscott, AaronSF, apianostudent, 16 invisible),
2,119
guests, and
357
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 530
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 530 |
What is your opinion ? 15 degree head w/o tip or 10 degree with tip ? After all, the tip is not made of carbon, and it's likely that a non-carbon tip will cause some flex. You think so ?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 411 |
When I first started, I bought an assortment of heads and tips for my Apsco lever. After trying all combinations, I ended up with the shortest head, 15*, and a #3 tip. This combo felt the best to me.
I basically duplicated this on the Fujan except I use the #2 tip, and I've tuned almost every pin of every piano I've done since then with this combo. There have been a few that I needed to use the narrow wall tuning tip on.
As far as plate strut clearance, it depends on the piano. Sometimes in a grand I must orient the lever to the 11 o'clock position or so, or sometimes I use my left hand in the high treble.
I have seen tuners that use 3-4 inches of extension and tip, so that strut clearance is never an issue, but that felt wrong to me. I decided to use what felt best most of the time to me, and use my other lever if needed on a few pins.
Maybe Mr Fujan would let you try a few different pieces, with the option to return some if you like?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 377
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 377 |
My recommendation would be the 15 degree head. I have two of them because I use the 15 degree w/o the tip extension on uprights and the 15 degree WITH the extension on grands. This way I don't have to orient my hammer position to avoid the plate struts. I don't notice any extra flex with the tip extension...only a little more weight which is not a big deal. With two heads I never have to use the tip wrench, I just spin one off and spin the other on depending on the piano.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 377
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 377 |
....also I thought I would never like a 15 degree head because I always used a ten degree and I thought it would feel awkward but it actually feels much better and I have more control.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481 |
There is an option for those with access to a lathe to make up an extension piece that has the threads and shoulder tilted a couple degrees relative to the body. I did this years ago for my Watanabe 10 deg lever and allowed it to be converted to a 16 deg lever. I think it gave the end of the lever an extra inch of clearance + the 5/8" for the extension. It involves tipping the piece in the chuck with a shim on one end, cutting the threads and turning the shoulder down to index properly with its counterpart so the lever will tilt in the right direction. I believe I used A2 or W1 drill rod for the material and didn't even bother to heat treat it. Unfortunately it can't be used with other levers without a shim of some sort to properly index the tilt in the right direction but the project took me about 1/2 and hour and was certainly cheaper than a new hammer or head. Takes up less space in your tool box too.
Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141 |
Hi Cashley, You may have found this web site, but I thought I'd add it to your thread because it is so related to this discussion. Here Michael Musial talks about and has photos of his Fugan configuration. - http://thundermush.com/fujan/Did you buy your Fugan yet? If so, what are your impressions and how did it work out for you? I tried asking about a hammer for my Mason Hamlin, but it ended up being about my decision to tune my own piano instead. So I thought I'd revive this thread from not too long ago. ( please, no more comments about my DIY decision) Anyway, from my thread apparently tuners now mostly tune grands contrary to Arthur Reblitz's advise in his book which is to tune a grand with the hammer handle away from the strings at about 5 O'clock. In regard to this discussion, if I did try to use a Fugan lever( or any other brand, of course) on my grand using Reblitz's method, I would have to use about a 2 1/2 inch tip extension to clear the wood. Obviously doing so may cause some flex in the tip extension itself. Also, my thought is that if such a long tip extension was used, I would think the 5 degree tip would perhaps work best. Any thoughts on the above ? Thanks Neil
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 530
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 530 |
I haven't bought the Fujan yet. I'm still pondering over the optimal combination. I'm afraid I won't be able to advise you, as yet. But I'm pretty sure the rest of the proud Fujan owners will have something to say.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,203
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,203 |
After reading Michael Musial's link, if I were going to order a Fujan hammer (hopefully one day), I'd start with his combination; "the basic 9 3/8 tube which makes a 13 inch lever, a 10 degree head with the 5/8 inch tip extension, and straight handle assembly."
I currently am using the basic Schaff extension with 3 shafts all have 5 degree heads and Watanabe tips. One with a standard tip, a 5/8 extension with standard tip and one with 5/8 ext and long tip for getting over the frame in the last section. I have tried a Jahn hammer with the provided tip, but it feels terrible compared to the Watanabe tips. I find using the combination of extension with a standard size tip works best in grands. - just my limited experience.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141 |
After reading Michael Musial's link, if I were going to order a Fujan hammer (hopefully one day), I'd start with his combination; "the basic 9 3/8 tube which makes a 13 inch lever, a 10 degree head with the 5/8 inch tip extension, and straight handle assembly."
Hi Monster I like the user name BTW. Ya, I'm persuaded by Michael's web article since he obviously went through quite a few trials and costs getting to his conclusions. In part, his conclusions are influenced by wanting to have a configuration that will work for most grands. From his photos it looks like some grands have plate webs that really stick up pretty high. In contrast, I am wanting to simply optimize for my Mason which appears to place the plate webs further back and are somewhat lower. Given this, combined with the idea that optimal hammer config perhaps is - the shortest distance from head to tip and the smallest head angle,( to avoid bending the pins ) I'm not totally convinced about his conclusions in relation to my piano. I hasten to add that I also hear the wisdom expressed earlier in this thread about 15 degrees feeling better. And well, Steve has a good return policy. I'd just like to do the least possible changing latter. Neil
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,203
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,203 |
Just to note, I've used my hammer configurations on my own M&H A (1919), 1909 S&S SII, S&S M's, L's, O's, B's, Estonia Concert grand. 5degree w/extension have cleared all plates, the only problem area is the high treble, clearing the rim. Best of luck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230 |
Is not it less tiring to use the flew of usual tuning hammers so it helps the pin, when springed, to move those very tiny increments we need in final tuning) ?
I use a watanabe (Yamaha) tuning hammer, it seem to have the perfect minimal flex, but some flex, I seem to be able to get the pin exactly where I want, may be with very hard pins a more rigid hammer would be better but generally they are just OK, and I don't tune a lot of completely new pianos (no floor tuning). It may help to learn to feel what happens in the pin certainly , but I reaally wonder if the springness of the usual tuning hammer is not used.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,408
Posts3,349,457
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|