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#1314382 - 11/29/09 12:44 PM Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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Hey all,

I'm browsing around, trying to find the perfect 'first' piano. I am a beginner, hailing from a background filled with classical guitar and bass, and have now finally decided to live out the dream of learning piano. And I want to do it right.

So I've narrowed my choice down to three options.
1) Roland F-110 (12,000 NOK)
2) Yamaha CLP-320 (10,000 NOK)
3) Casio PX-730 (8,500 NOK)

Now, obvious difference first, the Casio is a bit cheaper. The Yamaha is 10k NOK (Norwegian kroner) until Christmas, not sure what the price will be afterwards.

Sadly, due to my current place of residence, I won't have the option of going to the store and trying them out for myself to see which one I like more. We do, however, have the right to return products without giving any reason for the first 14 days after purchasing a product online, so I can always return it if I really don't like it. But of course, I want to make sure I order the right piano in the first place smile

The Casio and Roland pianos both seem to be a bit more compact than the Yamaha, which will be useful for me come fall, when I'll be living in a tiny apartment (going to university and all that), with a weight around 30kg, while the Yamaha weighs 45kg, and is a bit deeper. Not the largest difference, I don't plan on moving it around a lot.

As far as design goes (not a very important part of the decision, but still), I simply adore the look of the Roland. So sleek.

As I am a complete beginner, could someone walk me through the technical differences and what they actually mean?

Thanks a bunch.

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#1314393 - 11/29/09 01:00 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Huygens Offline
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CLP-320 is too high priced for its old age.

F-110 has weak keys, see this thread about Roland keyboards, specially my "Re-post of initial message".

For Casio, see this thread about PX-730 & PX-830.


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1314400 - 11/29/09 01:07 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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ChrisA Offline
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Originally Posted by NecessarySmile
Hey all,

I'm browsing around, trying to find the perfect 'first' piano. I am a beginner, hailing from a background filled with classical guitar and bass, and have now finally decided to live out the dream of learning piano. And I want to do it right.

So I've narrowed my choice down to three options.
1) Roland F-110 (12,000 NOK)
2) Yamaha CLP-320 (10,000 NOK)
3) Casio PX-730 (8,500 NOK)


What you should care about is the quality of the keyboard actions. Next you might care what it sounds like. But for learning it is best to have good keyboard so you can learn to get the dynamics "right".

Bothe Yamaha and Roland make multiple grades or qualities of key mechanism
The F110 uses Roland's lighter, lower end key mechanism
The CLP uses Yamaha's better action. I think the CLP is better then the F110
You will just have to try the Cassio. It's "different".

If you move up the Roland line to the modes that offer the "PHA II" keys (the F110 uses "PHA alphaII") then I think the Rolands are better. But there is one person here is disagrees.

If you like the action in the CLP, Yamaha makes many other DPs with the same identical key mechanism. Look at the YPD223, YDP160 and the P155

I did not like the sound inside the Casos as well as any of the the Rolands or higher end Yamahas.

#1314412 - 11/29/09 01:28 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: ChrisA]  
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sieg66 Offline
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paris
You can't compare yamaha and roland actions, they are not the same... I think that all the yamaha actions are not close to the real thing : too much initial resistance, and when the key start to move there is not enough resistance.

I have tried F110 and it's similar to the FP4 which is very pleasant, light at the top of the key but very controlable all the way down. It's like a key should react.

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#1314415 - 11/29/09 01:31 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: ChrisA]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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Thanks for the replies.

The YDP160 isn't available here, sadly. I've considered the P155, but it would run me NOK13k, and I'd have to add the price of pedals and a stand to that. Is it worth the extra cost over for example the CLP-320?

How about the Roland HP201? It has the PHA II keys. Admittedly, it is also slightly more expensive, at NOK13,500

Provided you would recommend these two slightly more expensive pianos over my options, which one of them would suit me as a beginner best? HP201 or P155?

Thanks again for helping a newbie out smile

#1314469 - 11/29/09 02:24 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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ChrisA Offline
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Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted by NecessarySmile

Provided you would recommend these two slightly more expensive pianos over my options, which one of them would suit me as a beginner best? HP201 or P155?

Thanks again for helping a newbie out smile


Over here the P155 sells for US$ 1,200 (or NOK 6,700 if I got the conversion correct) But on sale I just bought a new P155 for $960 delivery included.

When the HP201 is double the pice of the P155 you have to think about it. But if both are offered at the same price, you don't have to think more than a second. Get the HP201 if the price is the same. But I think you should look for a better price on the P155


#1314477 - 11/29/09 02:34 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: ChrisA]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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Gotta love Norway, eh. I've checked all the major instrument retailers here, 13k is the cheapest price. I saw someone in another thread commenting on the P155 being ridiculously expensive in Europe. Even more so in Norway, I'd assume. Everything is expensive here.

If only they weren't so darn big, I'd have my brother in law bring one back with him from the US.

Might go for the HP201, then. It looks like a very nice piano.

#1314492 - 11/29/09 02:48 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Huygens Offline
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Originally Posted by NecessarySmile
Might go for the HP201, then. It looks like a very nice piano.


Avoid the HP201 with Rosewood or Maple Finish; they only have PHA keys, _not_ PHA II, see footnote at bottom of the HP201 specification.


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1314502 - 11/29/09 03:00 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Huygens]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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So which version am I looking for? I can't seem to find any that aren't either rosewood or maple.

#1314525 - 11/29/09 03:27 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Huygens Offline
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Originally Posted by NecessarySmile
So which version am I looking for? I can't seem to find any that aren't either rosewood or maple.

Hmm.. Seems those are the only HP201 in Europe.. :\


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1314527 - 11/29/09 03:28 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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I don't think they are available in Europe.
I'd still get the HP 201, tho, as the action feels better to me than that of the Yamahas. So, yeah, you should deffinatley try before buying. I can't imagine you living in a place where there's no music shop that far away...

Also, the CLP 320 is not that old, it's the same line as the CLP 330, 340, 370 and 380. I don't know where you got that it's too old. The Roland is older I think.

#1314533 - 11/29/09 03:34 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Huygens]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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So I can't get a HP201 with PHA II then? That sucks. Oh well.

Would all of you still recommend it over the Yamaha?

And I do have music supply stores nearby (Well.. Not nearby, but I could get to Oslo easily enough), but I haven't found any stores in Oslo that stock the HP201. They might exist and just not have a webpage, though.

EDIT: I've sent a mail to Roland Norway asking if the HP201 with PHA II isn't sold in Norway. Because oddly enough, on their Norwegian site, the HP201 is listed as having PHA II. That's a rather big error if the version with PHA II isn't even available in Europe.

Last edited by NecessarySmile; 11/29/09 03:49 PM.
#1314612 - 11/29/09 05:51 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Huygens Offline
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I would like to compare the Casio PX-830 with the Roland HP201, but it seems that even with the weaker PHA keyboard, the Roland HP201 will win, so a comparison becomes only meaningful if you regard the price difference (to Casio PX-830 advantage).

But if I go up one Casio step, to the Casio AP-620, things take another turn. So, here goes (underlines are links):


Casio AP-620:
  • 128 notes polyphony
  • Graded Hammers + pianissimo/fortissimo-adjustment + Key Escapement (quicker swing-down-swing-back)
  • Fake Ivory keys
  • 250 voices/instruments, at least 16 are real instruments (the +200 remaining are synthesizer sounds)
  • Whole, Dual, Twin piano (Casio calls these: layers/split)
  • Tempering: 17 types
  • Reverb (4 levels), Damper Resonance (only piano, 1 level), Dynamics (Brilliance only, adjustable 7 steps), Chords (4 levels)
  • Speakers 2 * 30W
  • Automatic accompaniment: 180 Pre-installed rhythms, etc...
  • Transposition (-12 to 12), Octave (-2 to +2), Duet (left 0 to 3, right -4 to -1)

Roland HP201:
  • 128 notes polyphony
  • Graded Hammers
  • Cheap Plastic keys
  • 20 voices/instruments (real instruments)
  • Whole, Dual, Twin piano
  • Tempering: 7 types
  • Reverb (10 levels), Key Off Resonance (only piano, 7 levels), Damper Resonance (only piano, 7 levels), Dynamics
  • Speakers 2 * 25W
  • Automatic accompaniment: - (nothing)
  • Transposition (-6 to 5)

I might have misunderstood some details from the manuals, please overbear and state what I missed. smile


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1314614 - 11/29/09 06:00 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Huygens]  
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Huygens Offline
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And the prices of course:

Casio AP-620: Thomann - 1490 €
Roland HP201: Thomann - 1439 €

Casio PX-830: Thomann - 975 €

Last edited by Huygens; 11/29/09 06:01 PM.

P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1314814 - 11/30/09 12:18 AM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Huygens]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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How is the touch on AP-620 compared to on the HP201 in practice, does anyone know?

Thanks for all your help, guys. You've been helpful beyond my wildest expectations smile

#1315010 - 11/30/09 11:24 AM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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I felt this was worthy of a new post.

Great news, at least for me. Got a reply from the Norwegian importer, and they said that both models sold in Norway (Maple and Rosewood) come with PHA II.

Now I just need the money to arrive, and I'm ready to learn to play the piano.

#1315014 - 11/30/09 11:28 AM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Vid_w Offline
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Are you 100% sure?
Becouse I contacted several people, from Online stores to Roland, and even tho the german site said it came with PHA II, when I contacted them, they told me it was a mistake.

#1315037 - 11/30/09 12:01 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Vid_w]  
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NecessarySmile Offline
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I'll reply back with that information, but that's what they told me.

#1315045 - 11/30/09 12:13 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Originally Posted by NecessarySmile
I'll reply back with that information, but that's what they told me.


Show them the web page that states contrary, and push them against the wall until they can explain how they got PHA II into their HP201 Rosewood DP.


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1315047 - 11/30/09 12:16 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: Huygens]  
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I did that originally. Interestingly enough, the incompetent monkeys who pieced together the Roland Scandinavia website included the * after "Keyboard: 88 keys PHA II", but neglected to include the part where the * is explained.

EDIT: Reading the christmas catalogue of the biggest Norwegian music retailer, 4sound, and it says the HP201 has PHA II. If this is all just a misunderstanding, it's a pretty big one...

Last edited by NecessarySmile; 11/30/09 01:42 PM.
#1376456 - 02/17/10 12:01 PM Re: Roland F-110 vs Yamaha CLP-320 vs Casio PX-730 [Re: NecessarySmile]  
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Becasue of all this mess, I e-mailed Roland Italy to ask about the PHA II keyboard on Roland HP201 EMP and ERW.
They replied that both have the PHA II.

Is there any way to check if an actual piano has the PHA alpha or the PHA II?


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